Nope – I caught it too…

thats not how it happened, why don’t read the damn bible?

Two things here. Three. Three things.

First, most people learn about these biblical stories in Sunday School, not by reading the actual account itself.

Second, the exact wording in any account depends on the translations that have been performed on the text, so the same stories exist in as many different versions as there are translations.

Third, give me one good reason why I should read the damn bible.

Fourth (OK, it was four things after all), am I the only one that sees the irony in your use of the phrase “damn bible”?

The Bible is a Faith document and never intended to be a Science or History Document. I only have a small understanding of science or history, so I have to take much of what is said here on faith and I have no problem with that. What I do have trouble with is trying to apply the same rules and arguments to faith issues as are applied to science and history issues. Apples to oranges.

I agree, mostly. However, there are many people who spend their time trying to find correlations between biblical episodes and real-world evidence, and this is an abuse of both history and science, since these people seem mostly to try to fit the evidence to their preconceived conclusions, not draw conclusions as dictated by the evidence.

A weather scientist from NCAR in Boulder has a convincing theory on how it would have been possible for a sustained wind blowing for several days could cause a drop in the water level in the Red Sea and there are places shallow enough to be exposed. For me the physics, be it earthquake, volcano, tsunami, or just several days of very strong winds, is not the miracle. The miracle is the timing and I believe it literally happened.

If you believe it literally happened, then you are assuming the bible has some historical validity. What if the story really is just a bunch of metaphor or parable?

Furthermore, if a previous commenter is correct and the Jews were never enslaved in Egypt, then the story could not have happened. This would not change its value as a parable, but it blows out of the water any claim that the account has some historical validity.

What makes a mystery captivating is the tension between opposing arguments and evidence. If the Bible contained irrefutable science and history it would no longer be a faith document. Faith can only exist where there is reason for doubt.

Or, in many cases, where there is reason to believe the opposite of the faith article.

I saw a short exposition by a (pop culture sociologist?) He was describing the appeal of a TV series like StarGate. One of his points was that it tapped into a deep interest that our past is discoverable. If you offer people the possibility that humanity’s story telling roots is based upon some factual basis, and that basis could be determined, you’ll get their attention.

That is so much more compelling than the usual “it’s an old story, no one knows much about it.”

Just looked at the story again. Yes, you are right. Devastation, volcanic wastelands, body-destroying blasts of light, but no radiation per se. My bad. (Although I suppose I could grovel and claim that the blast of light that kills the one character is radiation… No? Won’t fly? Sigh. Oh well.)

Glad to hear he is still writing. I’ll have to look for his latest.

Wasn’t there a novel a while back (80s? 90s?) about the example you gave: a radioactive artifact or something that was mistaken for a supernatural/divine talisman? Turns out it contained a mini black hole. Can’t think of the name.

The radioactive consequences of angelic appearances has major impacts on the characters, which if I’m not mistaken, Chiang was the first to come up with.

Sure, but a relevant example would be the other way around – radioactivity somehow being the basis for stories about angels. I.e. natural phenomenon => bible story. Not bible story => natural phenomenon.
(Also… it’s been a while since I read it, so it could just be that I’ve forgotten it, but I can’t remember anything about radioactivity in that story – plenty of other mayhem every time an angel showed up, but radioactivity?)

You’re right, though, Exhalation is pretty amazing. I haven’t read any of Chiang’s later stuff. Is he even still writing?

He is. He’s keeping up his almost-one-short-story-a-year schedule.

It’s using science to try to explain an event that probably never happened in the first place – thus validating and justifying the original myth.

Agree, which is TR’s point, as well. But that doesn’t mean you can’t gain information about the past based on that myth. As we’ve both said, and Nigel pointed out, too, there’s a lot you can learn about a culture based upon its folklore. Read right, many OT stories reveal much about the political situation in the Levant when the tales were compiled. The sciences of anthropology, linguistics, archaeology, et al, are quite appropriately aimed at such investigations.

Even worse, this kind of “this could be the basis for the myth of …” speculation is exactly the kind of thinking that runs a chance of ending up with “∴ Ancient Aliens”

True again, but then ANY thinking (that should be “thinking”) can lead to that. Witness the twisted logic of the UFO nutters.

We’ll have to disagree on Chiang’s story. While it’s true the plot revolves around the “what if” you mention, plot alone does not define what’s “in” the story. The radioactive consequences of angelic appearances has major impacts on the characters, which if I’m not mistaken, Chiang was the first to come up with.

You’re right, though, Exhalation is pretty amazing. I haven’t read any of Chiang’s later stuff. Is he even still writing?

And while Hell is the Absence of God is a good story, it really has nothing to do with what’s being discussed. The story in question is a pure “what if” of the kind that Chiang’s really good at: what if God, angels, heaven and hell all incontrovertibly existed (and hell wasn’t really a punishment but a place without God, and angelic visitations caused terror and destruction). A relevant story here would be one that tried to explain something biblical as the result of some natural phenomenon.
In other words, what the Turkey City Lexicon refers to as a “Shaggy God Story”.

Anyone who hasn’t read Ted Chiang should, BTW. Chiang’s uneven – but when he’s good he’s frickin’ awesome! Exhalation (freely available online – click my name!) is a good place to start: an intriguing story based on… the second law of thermodynamics. That’s right. A story about thermodynamics. It has to be read to be believed!