UPDATE: partial Complete success with American Airlines!

By Phil Plait | April 23, 2012 3:36 pm

Good news: I just received a tweet from the American Airlines Twitter feed:

Yay! They have decided to not air the audio version of the antivax interview. That’s excellent, and I thank American Airlines for that.

However, as far as I can tell, the interview is still slated to run in their in-flight magazine. I will hopefully have more news about that soon as well.

Update: When I asked about the printed version, I got this reply back very quickly:

Yay again!

Again, I thank American Airlines for considering this issue and making the right decision. I also want to sincerely thank everyone who wrote and tweeted about this.

Remember: we have the power to make sure good, accurate science gets told, and bad, inaccurate misinformation does not spread. Never rest, never tire, and never forget that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Comments (72)

  1. J

    Great work. Lives may have been saved, in all sincerity.

  2. Chris

    Yay a win for science!

  3. Zyggy

    excellent work.

  4. Gary Ansorge

    I flew to Calif last week and the night I returned, I had the worst cold I’ve had in years. I really wish we had effective cold vaccines…

    If false advertising is a criminal offense, what isn’t it a crime to lie to people about vaccines, since it causes not just harm but death?

    I really don’t understand these human critters…and their laws…

    Gary 7

  5. ausduck

    Excellent news! We just got the same info from AA over here in Australia too,
    I’d like to say a huge heartfelt thanks to all the people out there who blogged and tweeted and signed the petition or contacted AA directly. Thanks mates!

    -Wendy Wilkinson
    SAVN

  6. Jay29

    You’re awesome, Phil. Congrats!

  7. Doug

    Phil,

    Was their response sufficient for you to continue flying on AA?

  8. That’s great news! Delta refused to listen to reason when they recently promoted anti-vax propaganda on their in-flight entertainment system. http://getbetterhealth.com/dont-fly-delta-airline-runs-anti-vaccine-videos-against-medical-advice/2011.11.13 I’m glad that AA did the right thing. I will fly American any time I can. Thanks!

  9. Sincerest thanks to Phil and everyone else who tweeted objections to American Airlines giving a free kick to pseudoscience from everyone at #stopAVN here in Australia. Well done.

  10. Daniel J. Andrews

    Dang, that puts a dent in my cynicism. Am I glad to be proven wrong here.

  11. It’s great to see that actual, scientific facts can win the fight with misleading frauds. Makes me warm around my heart a bit, considering how easy it seems to deceive the masses sometimes.

    Also, great work on fighting those who wish to promote… heck, I have no idea *what* it actually is they are trying to promote, other than medieval-level health care. Keep it up, anyhow, we need more people who can actually bring some changes :)

  12. VinceRN

    Great that they stopped their silliness. I wish I could believe it would matter though. Not one opinion will be changed, not one life saved. People that believe things despite mountains of evidence to the contrary – be that anti-vax, ancient aliens, or The Force, will not change their opinions based on science or facts.

    Much as such large scale government interventions go against my political grain, nothing short of a legal requirement that all be immunized unless they can prove a real, documented medical contraindication would make these folks get immunized.

    If we aren’t going to do that, and in America I seriously doubt we will, then we have to accept that some won’t be immunized and adapt to that. As home schoolers we frequently run into wackos of all types from young earth creationists on one side to antivax conspiracy theorists on the other. We just avoid those people once we identify them.

    Early in my nursing career I used to try to convince such people. After hundreds of attempts and not one success I now just nod my head and smile while internally putting them in that pigeon hole Mr. Mincin was talking about. Once I realized “We’d as well be ten minutes back in time”, I just accepted that such folks existed and there was little I could do about it.

    I keep my kids away from them and advise people with vulnerable kids to do the same. I’m saddened when I see a pertussis case (which we see far too much of in this county), but I don’t bother lecturing the parents anymore.

  13. Electro

    I love the fact that AA changed positions on promoting anti-vaccine nonsense because they were afraid of the story going viral.

    I think it’s likely there is at least one person who still will not be flying AA.
    The newly-unemployed author of “Listening is optional”.

  14. FMCH

    Any chance they will air/publish accurate vax info?

  15. FMCH

    Any chance they will air/publish accurate vax info?

  16. Tom

    Congratulations! Good work!

  17. Grand Lunar

    Great job, Phil!

    Now, if only politicians would be just as willing to comply with the will of the people as AA appearently has.

  18. BigBadSis

    Congratulations, Phil. Your blog post was, I’m sure, a big reason this was turned around. Great writing. Great result.

  19. Chris

    @4. Gary Ansorge

    You’d think there could be a case. At very least libel since they are defaming the pharmaceutical companies which are doing nothing wrong. I’m sure if I published a website claiming Pepsi causes autism, Pepsi would come down on me with a team of lawyers. But the antivax folks probably have their own team of lawyers with a bunch of their own studies which have been discredited in the scientific community, but in a trial all you need is reasonable doubt and one juror to be swayed. So it’s probably better for them to keep pushing their message based on science rather than have to deal with a possible PR nightmare because of one idiot juror.

    I’m not a legal expert or any public relations person, but that’s my guess.

  20. Giffy

    @4 Because it’s not advertising. Simply being a moron with stupid beliefs, is not, and should not be a crime. I don’t really want the courts deciding what is and is not a valid exercise of free speech.

    Now if you lie to someone to get their money that is a different matter all together. But even there plenty of leeway is given for opinion and puffery.

  21. Neil

    Job well done, Phil! It kind of blew my mind a bit that a business whose mode of operation often unintentionally serves as a vector for disease would spread information that could easily make their own risks worse. But then, thinking critically, seeing the big picture, and including considerations of long-term consequences in daily business aren’t exactly common human traits.

    And to Vince RN….I totally get your resignation, and such resignation is certainly better than living in constant frustration, yet…..there are still people on the fence, and while one-on-one encounters may be fairly useless in most situations, containing the spread of misinformation is not. Anti-vaxxers have been denied a public forum that could have reached thousands of fence-sitters.
    You say “not a single life saved”, but that is unnecessarily pessimistic. There had to have been some people who started neutral or mildly anti-vax who have changed their minds due to the constant efforts of people like Phil, and now there is one less way for that bad info to be uncritically broadcast. It is impossible to say whether or not THIS particular outcome will save a life, but it is mitigating a risk, which sometimes is the best that can be done. In short, don’t let the buttheads get you down.

  22. Egmont Ouerveture

    The fact that they considered it at all proves they are irresponsible imbeciles. Trusting your life and the lives of your loved ones to their idiocy in air travel would be the depth of foolishness.

    American Airlines:
    Proven to be the biggest @ssholes aloft.

  23. VinceRN

    @Neil – You’re certainly correct, small, incremental victories are better than nothing, and taken together they probably do make a difference to some people that might have been on the fence.

    Also, in general, I still won;t be flying American. I’ve never been to DFW or Chicago, but I had a suitcase that went to both places (twice to DFW) in about ’86 or ’87 courtesy of American Airlines. I’ll stick with Alaska and Virgin – unless they start preaching antivax or some other dangerous nonsense. (Yes, I know Alaska used to have the little pray cards and some here were probably horribly offended by them, but I don’t really care about things like that)

  24. Jayne Rivas

    Great work!!! How wonderful that this awful trash was prevented from being promulgated by AA. Fortunately for them, they were saved from creating a debacle that would have certainly damaged their business. Not to mention, of course, that the misinformation may certainly have caused harm to any number of persons. Congratulations and thanks to the Bad Astronomer!!!!

  25. Larry

    So…logic….prevailed…?
    I’m unsure how to act here. The Kansas University football team has been practicing celebrating…and now I understand why their coach thinks practicing is necessary.

  26. thomas

    congratulations on your Stalinist attack on freedom of speech. Next time, they’re going to cave just as easily to pressure against something you approve of. Maybe they’re going to hide the truth about climate change, or animal behavior, or race and human migrations. I’ll be sure leave a comment on your blog with a link to this article the next time a pressure group makes them take an article out of their magazine. I’ll bet you it won’t be something as stupid and easily debunked as antivaxxers.

  27. Sincerest thanks to Phil and everyone else who tweeted objections to American Airlines giving a free kick to pseudoscience, from everyone at #stopAVN here in Australia. Well done.

  28. Yay!
    Somewhere there is a child that won’t die now, who will grow up to save other lives.
    Good going, AA PR crew! Disaster averted!

  29. thomas (26): Ha! Freedom of speech doesn’t come into this at all. Read the copious comments that have debunked that.

    Also, of course someone else can use this tactic. So those of us on the side of reality shouldn’t? Should we ban all kitchen knives because you could stab someone with one?

    Pressure on advertisers and companies works both ways. I understand that, and accept it. So I’ll use it when I can.

  30. DaveN

    @26/thomas: “Stalinist attack on freedom of speech”…? Now think about that a bit… Oh who are we fooling, you’re not thinking, that was just a screed…

  31. Here is what I think happened:

    1. The producers, Altitude Media, shot the interview with Dorey, and gave her dates it would be aired.
    2. Dorey started crowing about the “victory” of being on American Airlines (that was Friday afternoon)
    3. The Australian skeptics who form the backbone of “Stop AVN” began blogging & tweeting their outrage.
    4. I’m betting that the @AmericanAir account is monitored 24/7 by a relatively low-level customer service person, because the account is normally used to trouble-shoot in-flight problems. Hence the “listening is optional” fumble. The rest of the activity happened over the weekend.
    5. Monday morning, the suits come back into the office and I bet there was a fair amount of conversation in the customer-experience area of the executive suite. For example, I’d faxed letters to every number I could get my hands on, plus emails to media contact, investor relations etc.
    6. To go from “not knowing a thing about it” to making a decision in probably 7 or 8 hours is pretty good for a major company on what is to them a minor matter.

  32. DaveN

    @31, If so, I can see Dorey et al. starting the mythology of the “lost/suppressed tapes” based on this… Someone’s always spinning…
    But you’re right that in Big Corp terms this was a pretty quick Monday Morning Turnaround… (with Props to BA and the Aussie Contingent)

  33. Messier Tidy Upper

    Yes! Well done, congratulations. :-D

  34. julianpenrod

    The previous part of this issue, the article accusing American Airlines of airing “dangerous” “propaganda, is no longer duisplayed on the website main page. When that happens, an item isn’t immeidately available, if at all. This is a reply to responses made to my comment under that previous article.
    Like all devotees of the illegitimate, Old Rockin’ Dave concocts a retort completely out of keeping with the issue. I brought up about American Airlines airing the material by Ms. Dorey as being a display of freedom of speech. Old Rockin’ Dave gloatingly exhorts that Constitutional rights don’t extend to private property, like businesses, so they can be as contemptuous of rights as they wish, as long as someone pulls strings to arrange it. Except, I wasn’t complaining about them violating rights. New World Order thugs do that frewuently, it’s not surprising to see it happen. I was merely responding to Mr. Plait’s outcry of how could American Airlines do something like this. Old Rockin’ Dave’s reply sounds like the shout of the guilty, contradicting an accusation that wasn’t even made!
    Incidentally, few, if any, who condemn the machinations of the New World Order are as repitlianly eager about using “private property” as an excuse for violating Constitutional guarantees. By spouting it, Old Rockin’ Dave has all but admitted to right wing, anti human rights, anti God sympathies.
    And Leon proclaims loudly about, of all forms of medication, vaccines being absolutely and ultimately the only one which pharmaceutical houses do not have free reign with. But they don’t prove it. Very convenient for the one topic of interest to be precisely the one that all the other rules don’t apply to.
    Leon also depicts doctors as utterly and completely reliable and trustworthy in treating ailments. Leaving aside the question of why they need malpractice insurance if they can be so trusted, the issue should be expanded to include, for example, the article “Life Laughs at the Limits of Science”, on the NPR websaite, in which, in a switch, one of the pro-”scsience” bloggers actually argues for not thinking that “science” answers all questions.
    And, a point about a comment by Phil Plait. “Vaccines do not cause autism.” Whenever it serves their purpose of denying the presence of God, without demonstrating that they can’t prove it, “Scientists” bleat loudly, “You can’t prove a negative!” Yet here is Phil Plait, claiming solidarity with “science” yet declaring a negative proved!

  35. Ken

    @34

    You wouldn’t happen to be the same Julian Penrod who penned this 7,000 word letter regarding your concerns on chemtrails?

    (http://www.rense.com/general30/deby.htm)

  36. Chris2

    VinceRN:

    (Yes, I know Alaska used to have the little pray cards and some here were probably horribly offended by them, but I don’t really care about things like that)

    One reason they dropped the cards was because some people would read them outloud, and it was irritating. Plus only those in first class get food these days. (I fly Alaska to visit relatives because it is the only direct flight, I see no reason to add hours to travel by diverting east to Denver and getting on another plane).

    Thomas and julianpenrod, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has everything to do with very bad publicity and the airline’s bottom line, especially when it is going bankrupt. They cannot afford to lose any passengers.

    As a refresher, the following are the words in the First Amendment. Now try to remember that Phil Plait, those of us who comment here, those who wrote to complain to American Airlines and those who spread the word are not Congress, and cannot make laws. If you are confused about it, then feel free to take an American government class, they are offered at many community colleges:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  37. Gary Ansorge

    20. Giffy

    So, if I claim that gravity is JUST a theory, promoted by a bunch of over paid physicists and the industries that pay them and all you have to do is believe hard enough to survive a fall, and some idiot takes me at my erroneous word and jumps off a cliff, I am in no way responsible for his death?

    Somehow, that doesn’t sound right…

    Gary 7

  38. Electro

    @Gary (36)

    Honestly Gary, I think you already know that would come down to whether the court believed the outcome to be foreseeable, your state of mind (intent) and whether you knew, or were expected to have known, that your statements were false.

    If it could be shown that you knew the claims were false AND that you knew your audience lacked mental capacity, then I think, you would be approaching premeditated murder.

    I am sure some old chestnut about fire and a crowded theater applies here.

  39. Fabulous !
    Thanks AA for the entire humanity.
    Great job everyone, great job Phil!

  40. I’m glad I came here before I wrote a nasty letter to them about endorsing involuntary manslaughter…

  41. Andrea

    I recently learned(I guess everyone else knew) that Jenny Mccarthy got a lot of access for her crap about autism/anti-vax because of her previous work- she was a Playboy “model” of the Year. Actually having any education/knowledge is trumped in Congressional/media access by big naked ……….

    Wow, even here (like everywhere else on the Internet, TV, newspapers) , people do not understand the first amendment(or much of any of the Constitution). That is the problem with sound bites and not reading- “freedom of speech” is all people hear. I work right across from the National Archives-and for much of the year, there is always a line to get in- maybe I can do a study on people coming out to see what they learned.

  42. AV

    Great work Phil! Awesome!! One more victory for…. reality!

  43. April 23rd, 2012 at 8:28 pm Post #26. thomas Says:

    “congratulations on your Stalinist attack on freedom of speech.”

    Shut up. You’re not allowed to talk any more.

    Hey… that IS fun! I’ll bet it doesn’t work though. My Stalinist powers are mostly under-developed.

  44. Peter

    Yeah the AVN is doing a lot of damage :(

    The Australian Vaccination Network (AVN), formerly known as the Vaccination Awareness Network, is an Australian anti-vaccination lobby group[2] registered in New South Wales.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Vaccination_Network

  45. Hawkinz

    This absolutely made my morning, not to mention my week, and probably my month.

    I think AV #39 said it perfectly,

    Congratulations on the stunning victory for reality!

    And LarianLeQuella #38… my sentiments exactly. :)

  46. digitalatheist

    REASON WINS! REASON WINS! REASON WINS!

    On a serious note, I’m glad this batch of crap-oganda got nixed. As I have stated here a couple of times in the past, as a child, my mother survived polio. There was no vaccine at that time, and it is only because of a good roll of the dice that she came out of it pretty much unscathed. The roll of the dice: the doctor she had read everything he could get his hands on about new ways to treat polio and used as many as he could. In the end they worked great for my mother and several other patients he had.

    As a result, my mother made sure that all of us had every vaccine that came out, as soon as the doctor said we could have them.

    Anti-vaxxers are a danger to humanity and won’t be happy until something like small pox gets a major toe hold back in the population.

  47. @Giffy.

    Freedom of speech is not absolute. You can’t make up false allegations about someone and spread them as truth under the cover of “freedom of speech.” In court, you would have to present evidence that your statements were truthful.

    When it comes to anti-vax folks, the “best study” (and I use that term extremely loosely) they were able to point to (Wakefield) has long since been discredited. They rely on heresay and anecdotes, neither of which would stand up in a court of law. Of course, if a pharmaceutical company did sue for libel, they might stomp out one or two anti-vax folks, but they’d get bad PR as the story gets spun as “big bad drug company squashes freedom of speech.” So they remain mostly silent on the issue or fight back with information campaigns instead of lawsuits.

  48. digitalatheist

    Sigh, at the expense of derailing the thread further, those of you whining about “freedom of speech”, get a clue. No one passed a law saying they couldn’t run the interview. People SPOKE UP! Freedom of speech does NOT equal Freedom from Consequences, nor does it guarantee Freedom from People Speaking Against Ideas in Speech.

    On another note: REASON WON! Deal with it.

  49. Larry

    To further whip the dead horse, freedom of speech, as defined in the Constitution, is applicable to the Government, not to private parties. Your employer, for example, is perfectly within his rights to restrict what you can say about company plans, operations, personnel, etc.. Phil (and Thomas, I dare say) is perfectly within his rights to apply pressure, in one of the only ways he can, on AA to not publish such a ridiculous (and dangerous) interview. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with a First Amendment situation.

  50. TheBlackCat

    The freedom of speech issue is really quite simple. You have a right to say whatever you want in public. You do not have a right to force any private individual or group to repeat your speech, do not have a right to force anyone to let you use their private property as a place to spread your speech, and do not have a right to force anyone to use their time or money to help you spread your speech.

    Freedom of speech goes both ways, you can’t be denied the right to say what you want yourself, but you also cannot force someone else to say something they don’t want to.

    Meryl Dorey can go stand on any street corner she wants and say whatever she wants. She can say it in a building, car, or plane she owns. She can say it on a TV station she owns. She can play videos on equipment she owns.

    However, she cannot force a person or company to use their money to distribute her video, cannot force a person or company to play her video in their private property, cannot force a person or company to let her use their equipment to play the video, and cannot force a person or company to include her video as a part of any of their own video feeds.

    The people who are complaining about free speech are saying that she should be allowed to do all of those things. To me that is the biggest violation of freedom of speech here, that someone else can tell you that you must say something, or help them say something, even if you don’t want to.

    So to me the only people proposing violating freedom of speech are the ones crying loudest about protecting it.

  51. Thanks, SAVN, the BA, and everybody else who reacted to this.
    I E-mailed AA and thanked them for their decision.
    Clicking on my name, above, will take you to their feedback form. Please do so. I think it is a good idea, as a skeptic to not always be against something, but also be for something, every now and then.
    Cheers, Regner

  52. alfaniner

    @#34 julianpenrod
    You are wrong.

  53. Doug Little

    congratulations on your Stalinist attack on freedom of speech

    Well that’s the most ridiculous thing I have read today. So somehow Phil exercising his freedom of speech is an attack on the freedom of speech. I don’t think Stalin operated that way.

    Idiot.

  54. Gunnar

    Good for American Airlines! They made a very sane and responsible decision!

    I don’t particularly have anything against American Airlines, now that they have demonstrated that bit of responsible behavior. The last time I flew with American Airlines, they treated me and my family with all due courtesy and respect and got us and our luggage where we wanted to go in a timely and comfortable manner. They remain on the list of options I will consider the next time I travel by air, depending on price and availability of desirable services and schedules.

  55. Gunnar

    @Julianpenrod

    I can think of few things that are more foolish or arrogant than accusing anyone who disagrees with your own views of being anti-God, as you seem to be doing. If you think that promoting science and acceptance of reality is inherently anti-God, you are, at the very least, worshipping the wrong god!

    Claiming that vaccinations don’t cause autism, as Phil Plait said, is at worst, a slightly poor choice of wording. It would probably have been better to say that there is no convincing evidence that there is any connection between vaccinations and autism. This is not the same thing as proving a negative as you claimed and complained about.

  56. Acronym Jim

    Stalinistic attach on freedom of speech

    Stalinistic? On the contrary, this is the free market system at work. A group of consumers demanded that unsafe, unsound medical advice not be allowed to be presented, and AA listened to their consumers. This is how capitalism is supposed to work.

  57. Congratulations, Phil! But I was not aware you were using Windows! ;) (screen dumps looks like Windows’ horrible font rendering) :P (sorry for the off-topic guys (m/f) )

  58. Sean H.

    Phil, I feel that there should be some kind of award for your actions here. I suppose out accolades will have to do for now. Bravo, good sir!

  59. I just love how AVN’s little petition goes for the conspiracy theory path right at the third paragraph…

  60. Jefe Loco

    I was reading through the petition and pleas linked in #39, I love the following:
    “# 24
    01:22, Apr 24, Dr. Meryl Derpy, Australia
    Homeopathy doesn’t work, homeopaths are frauds. The benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks. Freedom of speech doesn’t include the right to spread misinformation.”

    I was thinking about doing a similar posting but “Derpy” already beat me to it :)

  61. Number 6

    What a relief!….Truth wins!….It gives us everyone here hope that all is not lost in a world where as has been stated by others, “Opinion is everyone’s truth these days.”….Sometimes, truth — the bona-fide article — is still recognized by many people.

  62. bbmcrae

    Most people who crow about “freedom of speech” online only seem to do it when someone disagrees (or blows giant logic holes in) their conspiracy theories or bigotry. They don’t care about freedom of speech for the other side, or even bother to understand what it actually means.

  63. bbmcrae

    @#34

    julianpenrod – Your “Old Rockin’ Dave” screed….sorry, was that supposed to be coherent or have context?

  64. Mark Hansen

    bbmcrae, julianpenrod’s rambling refers to a post he made on the previous thread which, for reasons known only to him, cannot be found by him on the BA blog. Don’t know why; I found it, it hasn’t mysteriously vanished as far as I can see, but he does seem to have a tenuous grip on reality anyway so that probably explains a lot. Anyway, he’s referring to Old Rockin’ Dave’s post on this thread http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/04/23/american-airlines-to-air-dangerous-antivax-propaganda/

  65. BenFromCA

    Hey, Phil! Where can we write to AA to express our thanks, as well? And BTW Phil, you might have save some lives. How’s that make you feel?

  66. Nigel Depledge

    Julianpenrod (34) said:

    The previous part of this issue, the article accusing American Airlines of airing “dangerous” “propaganda, is no longer duisplayed on the website main page. When that happens, an item isn’t immeidately available, if at all. This is a reply to responses made to my comment under that previous article.

    It’s still there.

    I was shredding some of nonsense in the antivaxers’ comments earlier today.

    Like all devotees of the illegitimate, Old Rockin’ Dave concocts a retort completely out of keeping with the issue. I brought up about American Airlines airing the material by Ms. Dorey as being a display of freedom of speech. Old Rockin’ Dave gloatingly exhorts that Constitutional rights don’t extend to private property, like businesses, so they can be as contemptuous of rights as they wish, as long as someone pulls strings to arrange it.

    Well, hardly.

    ORD pointed out that Dorey’s freedom of speech was not violated, and neither has it been.

    She’s as free to blather as she was before. All the petition did was remove one potential platform for her brand of nonsense.

    Except, I wasn’t complaining about them violating rights.

    It sure looked like you were when you said “Among other things, American Airlines’ airing an interview with Meryl Dorey falls under “freedom of speech”. But, rest assured, when Constitutional guarantees threaten the connivances and conspiracies of coirporate mega-giant pharmaceutical houses or drug industries, who fund “scientists” all over the world, those “scientists” will thinbk nothing of rising up to impose the dictatorship of the dollar! ”

    If that isn’t a compaint that Dorey’s freeedom of speech was violated, then you point was lost in your incoherence. Perhaps you should write a bit slower, and think more about saying what you mean.

    New World Order thugs do that frewuently, it’s not surprising to see it happen. I was merely responding to Mr. Plait’s outcry of how could American Airlines do something like this. Old Rockin’ Dave’s reply sounds like the shout of the guilty, contradicting an accusation that wasn’t even made!

    Except that it really did look like you were making an issue of Dorey’s freedom of speech. Y’know, by mentioning the phrase “freedom of speech”.

    Incidentally, few, if any, who condemn the machinations of the New World Order are as repitlianly eager about using “private property” as an excuse for violating Constitutional guarantees. By spouting it, Old Rockin’ Dave has all but admitted to right wing, anti human rights, anti God sympathies.

    Erm . . . how so?

    . . . Leon also depicts doctors as utterly and completely reliable and trustworthy in treating ailments.

    Not really, but I’m sure that most of them do their honest and level best.

    Leaving aside the question of why they need malpractice insurance if they can be so trusted,

    Er, because they’r ehuman, and any human can make a mistake. Also, the insurance ensures that the vidtim of any proven malpractice receives substantial compensation – often far more than the individual physician could afford.

    the issue should be expanded to include, for example, the article “Life Laughs at the Limits of Science”, on the NPR websaite, in which, in a switch, one of the pro-”scsience” bloggers actually argues for not thinking that “science” answers all questions.

    Well, it doesn’t. Yet.

    And, a point about a comment by Phil Plait. “Vaccines do not cause autism.” Whenever it serves their purpose of denying the presence of God, without demonstrating that they can’t prove it, “Scientists” bleat loudly, “You can’t prove a negative!” Yet here is Phil Plait, claiming solidarity with “science” yet declaring a negative proved!

    Well, it’s not absolutely proven, but what has been proven is that if there is a link between vaccines and autism, it is of such trivial significance beside all the other causes of autism that it is not worth pursuing until we’ve resolved all of those other, more significant causes. And you can take that to the bank.

  67. Robert

    Those who claim this violates free speech forget that OTHER people have free speech rights too. They want free speech only for the anti-vaxers. They think those who support vaccines should shut up. So, when an anti-vaccine ad airs on AA, people use their free speech to object. And they choose not to spend their money with AA until they pulled the ad. If NAMBLA wanted to put an ad on AA, people would rightfully object. You have a right to free speech, but you aren’t guaranteed a microphone. Get your on soapbox.

  68. PayasYouStargaze

    I was going to comment that Julianpenrod is so far removed from reality that he can’t even see the “Older Entries” link at the bottom of the main page. However as I write this the previous article is still on the main page – at the bottom so Phil’s next post should bump it. Therefore I amend my statement to Julianpenrod is so far removed from reality that he can’t even scroll down a webpage.

NEW ON DISCOVER
OPEN
CITIZEN SCIENCE
ADVERTISEMENT

Discover's Newsletter

Sign up to get the latest science news delivered weekly right to your inbox!

ADVERTISEMENT

See More

ADVERTISEMENT
Collapse bottom bar
+

Login to your Account

X
E-mail address:
Password:
Remember me
Forgot your password?
No problem. Click here to have it e-mailed to you.

Not Registered Yet?

Register now for FREE. Registration only takes a few minutes to complete. Register now »