<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Debunking vaccine myths</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:12:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Metzler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341161</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Metzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341161</guid>
		<description>Very well said, CB. Especially the driving home of the fact that a child can&#039;t develop autism in a week, or even a day as some parents would have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said, CB. Especially the driving home of the fact that a child can&#8217;t develop autism in a week, or even a day as some parents would have it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341160</link>
		<dc:creator>CB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341160</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t know much about autism, but we do know that it&#039;s a developmental disorder.  In other words it is literally impossible that receiving a vaccine can be responsible for a non-autistic child displaying autism symptoms a week later.  There simply isn&#039;t enough development in that time frame.

Also, we know that a child that appears to be developing normally but &quot;suddenly&quot; starts showing symptoms is fairly typical.  Symptoms do exist before this and a trained professional would probably be able to tell well before the parents could, but few parents take their seemingly normal children to specialists to see if they are autistic.

The unfortunate coincidence here is that the age where obvious symptoms start appearing and the age where we begin vaccine schedules are very similar, thus enabling the now understandably distraught parents to conclude the two are related.

It doesn&#039;t hurt that there&#039;s Oprah and McCarthy and other idiots pushing the idea into parents&#039; heads in the first place.  Can they please start believing that soda and McDonald&#039;s cheeseburgers cause autism so at least then parents will at least be helping their kids out rather than endangering them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t know much about autism, but we do know that it&#8217;s a developmental disorder.  In other words it is literally impossible that receiving a vaccine can be responsible for a non-autistic child displaying autism symptoms a week later.  There simply isn&#8217;t enough development in that time frame.</p>
<p>Also, we know that a child that appears to be developing normally but &#8220;suddenly&#8221; starts showing symptoms is fairly typical.  Symptoms do exist before this and a trained professional would probably be able to tell well before the parents could, but few parents take their seemingly normal children to specialists to see if they are autistic.</p>
<p>The unfortunate coincidence here is that the age where obvious symptoms start appearing and the age where we begin vaccine schedules are very similar, thus enabling the now understandably distraught parents to conclude the two are related.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t hurt that there&#8217;s Oprah and McCarthy and other idiots pushing the idea into parents&#8217; heads in the first place.  Can they please start believing that soda and McDonald&#8217;s cheeseburgers cause autism so at least then parents will at least be helping their kids out rather than endangering them?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Unsettled Scientist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341159</link>
		<dc:creator>Unsettled Scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341159</guid>
		<description>&gt; My personal experience is this.

Fortunately personal experience isn&#039;t the way scientific understanding is created.  If it were, we&#039;d never be able to find the truth about anything.  It is very easy to see mistaken correlations in our own lives.  Science is about trying to not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; My personal experience is this.</p>
<p>Fortunately personal experience isn&#8217;t the way scientific understanding is created.  If it were, we&#8217;d never be able to find the truth about anything.  It is very easy to see mistaken correlations in our own lives.  Science is about trying to not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Todd W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341158</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341158</guid>
		<description>Jonathan,

I suppose I should revise my earlier statement, as there&#039;s a bit more nuance to it and I was working from recall before. Here&#039;s the regulatory language regarding inclusion of adverse reactions/events in drug labeling, from 21 CFR 201.57 (emphasis added):

&lt;blockquote&gt;Adverse reactions . This section must describe the overall adverse reaction profile of the drug based on the entire safety database. For purposes of prescription drug labeling, an adverse reaction is an undesirable effect, reasonably associated with use of a drug, that may occur as part of the pharmacological action of the drug or may be unpredictable in its occurrence. This definition does not include all adverse events observed during use of a drug, &lt;b&gt;only those adverse events for which there is some basis to believe&lt;/b&gt; there is a causal relationship between the drug and the occurrence of the adverse event.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Note that it does not specify that there is solid evidence, but enough to make the person(s) responsible for the labeling believe that there might be some causal connection. This could be because of timing, the number of reports &lt;i&gt;to the manufacturer&lt;/i&gt; (note that while manufacturers are required to report all AEs of which they become aware to VAERS, not all reports to VAERS have necessarily been made to the manufacturer), some studies that may or may not have been replicated or validated, etc. There is room for manufacturer discretion, then, as to whether or not they list an event that is not conclusively causally connected.

The FDA provides further guidance on this in their guidance &quot;Adverse Reactions Section of Labeling for Human Prescription Drug and Biological Products — Content and Format&quot;. About selecting adverse events to include, they state:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Decisions on whether there is some basis to believe there is a causal
relationship are a matter of judgment and are based on factors such as: (1) the frequency
of reporting, (2) whether the adverse event rate for the drug exceeds the placebo rate, (3)
the extent of dose-response, (4) the extent to which the adverse event is consistent with
the pharmacology of the drug, (5) the timing of the event relative to the time of drug
exposure, (6) existence of challenge and dechallenge experience, and (7) whether the
adverse event is known to be caused by related drugs.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The guidance also provides advice on how and when to update the Adverse Reactions section of the labeling. The Tripedia insert looks to have been last update in 2005, so the adverse reaction section may not have been updated to remove autism, yet. Other package inserts may not have been updated to include autism after all the brouhaha, or there was insufficient cause to include it (e.g., lack of sound scientific evidence to support its inclusion). While I can&#039;t know what Sanofi-Pasteur was thinking when they added it to the list of reported adverse events, my guess is that they felt it was sufficiently plausible that they could get in legal trouble and decided to cover their asses. Merck (maker of the MMR vaccine) apparently did not consider the evidence sufficient to include autism in the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan,</p>
<p>I suppose I should revise my earlier statement, as there&#8217;s a bit more nuance to it and I was working from recall before. Here&#8217;s the regulatory language regarding inclusion of adverse reactions/events in drug labeling, from 21 CFR 201.57 (emphasis added):</p>
<blockquote><p>Adverse reactions . This section must describe the overall adverse reaction profile of the drug based on the entire safety database. For purposes of prescription drug labeling, an adverse reaction is an undesirable effect, reasonably associated with use of a drug, that may occur as part of the pharmacological action of the drug or may be unpredictable in its occurrence. This definition does not include all adverse events observed during use of a drug, <b>only those adverse events for which there is some basis to believe</b> there is a causal relationship between the drug and the occurrence of the adverse event.</p></blockquote>
<p>Note that it does not specify that there is solid evidence, but enough to make the person(s) responsible for the labeling believe that there might be some causal connection. This could be because of timing, the number of reports <i>to the manufacturer</i> (note that while manufacturers are required to report all AEs of which they become aware to VAERS, not all reports to VAERS have necessarily been made to the manufacturer), some studies that may or may not have been replicated or validated, etc. There is room for manufacturer discretion, then, as to whether or not they list an event that is not conclusively causally connected.</p>
<p>The FDA provides further guidance on this in their guidance &#8220;Adverse Reactions Section of Labeling for Human Prescription Drug and Biological Products — Content and Format&#8221;. About selecting adverse events to include, they state:</p>
<blockquote><p>Decisions on whether there is some basis to believe there is a causal<br />
relationship are a matter of judgment and are based on factors such as: (1) the frequency<br />
of reporting, (2) whether the adverse event rate for the drug exceeds the placebo rate, (3)<br />
the extent of dose-response, (4) the extent to which the adverse event is consistent with<br />
the pharmacology of the drug, (5) the timing of the event relative to the time of drug<br />
exposure, (6) existence of challenge and dechallenge experience, and (7) whether the<br />
adverse event is known to be caused by related drugs.</p></blockquote>
<p>The guidance also provides advice on how and when to update the Adverse Reactions section of the labeling. The Tripedia insert looks to have been last update in 2005, so the adverse reaction section may not have been updated to remove autism, yet. Other package inserts may not have been updated to include autism after all the brouhaha, or there was insufficient cause to include it (e.g., lack of sound scientific evidence to support its inclusion). While I can&#8217;t know what Sanofi-Pasteur was thinking when they added it to the list of reported adverse events, my guess is that they felt it was sufficiently plausible that they could get in legal trouble and decided to cover their asses. Merck (maker of the MMR vaccine) apparently did not consider the evidence sufficient to include autism in the list.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341157</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341157</guid>
		<description>For Chris2 (39) - Again if there is no link not even a casual link then there is no real need for a lawyer to say anything nor any need of the vaccine maker to seek one out. ... Todd (40) I thought that might be the case so I waded through some 20 other vaccine inserts and nothing not one, not even the MMR vaccine has anything about Autism and if any of the vaccines were to have it listed for the reasons I  am given then at least that vaccine should have it but to date I have only found one the Tripedia vaccine! Just to check things out though I waded through the VAER&#039;s data and found reports spanning most vaccines saying Autism was reported afterwards (time frames involved) so if what I am been told here is true then just about all inserts should have it listed. Hence the mystery for me here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Chris2 (39) &#8211; Again if there is no link not even a casual link then there is no real need for a lawyer to say anything nor any need of the vaccine maker to seek one out. &#8230; Todd (40) I thought that might be the case so I waded through some 20 other vaccine inserts and nothing not one, not even the MMR vaccine has anything about Autism and if any of the vaccines were to have it listed for the reasons I  am given then at least that vaccine should have it but to date I have only found one the Tripedia vaccine! Just to check things out though I waded through the VAER&#8217;s data and found reports spanning most vaccines saying Autism was reported afterwards (time frames involved) so if what I am been told here is true then just about all inserts should have it listed. Hence the mystery for me here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341156</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341156</guid>
		<description>@ Jonathan (38) -
What you have found there is an instance of the &lt;i&gt;post hoc ergo propter hoc&lt;/i&gt; logical fallacy (&quot;after this, therefore because of this&quot;).

Just because some people (and it might only be a handful of people out of millions) report the onset of autism shortly after vaccination does not imply a causal link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jonathan (38) -<br />
What you have found there is an instance of the <i>post hoc ergo propter hoc</i> logical fallacy (&#8220;after this, therefore because of this&#8221;).</p>
<p>Just because some people (and it might only be a handful of people out of millions) report the onset of autism shortly after vaccination does not imply a causal link.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Master</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341155</link>
		<dc:creator>The Master</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 03:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341155</guid>
		<description>My personal experience is this.  My son changed after his first series. I saw it with own eyes.  Now he&#039;s in special education classes to relearn the social skills he had be the shots.

My girlfriend got a chicken pox shot in her 30&#039;s because she never had it as a child.  She wanted to work in Neonatal as a NICU nurse so, they required she have the vaccine.  1 year later she develops type 1 diabetes.

Guess what my opinion is of the 84% increase in male autism in the last 20 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My personal experience is this.  My son changed after his first series. I saw it with own eyes.  Now he&#8217;s in special education classes to relearn the social skills he had be the shots.</p>
<p>My girlfriend got a chicken pox shot in her 30&#8242;s because she never had it as a child.  She wanted to work in Neonatal as a NICU nurse so, they required she have the vaccine.  1 year later she develops type 1 diabetes.</p>
<p>Guess what my opinion is of the 84% increase in male autism in the last 20 years?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Todd W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341154</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341154</guid>
		<description>@Jonathan

Manufacturers are required by law to include in the list of &quot;reported adverse events&quot; all adverse events reported to them, whether confirmed to be causally related or not. As Chris2 said, it&#039;s basically CYA language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jonathan</p>
<p>Manufacturers are required by law to include in the list of &#8220;reported adverse events&#8221; all adverse events reported to them, whether confirmed to be causally related or not. As Chris2 said, it&#8217;s basically CYA language.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341153</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341153</guid>
		<description>Jonathan:&lt;blockquote&gt; why on earth did the Tripedia vaccine package insert have Autism listed under adverse events reported during post-approval&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Because their lawyers told them to.  It is a cover your rear disclaimer.  If you look closely is says &quot;reported adverse reactions.&quot;  But they don&#039;t show the numbers, nor if the reports were confirmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan:<br />
<blockquote> why on earth did the Tripedia vaccine package insert have Autism listed under adverse events reported during post-approval</p></blockquote>
<p>Because their lawyers told them to.  It is a cover your rear disclaimer.  If you look closely is says &#8220;reported adverse reactions.&#8221;  But they don&#8217;t show the numbers, nor if the reports were confirmed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/10/debunking-vaccine-myths/#comment-341152</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 20:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=53523#comment-341152</guid>
		<description>I normally stay clear of the whole autism/vaccine thing but I find myself wanting to comment. Myth 1: Vaccines cause autism. You say there is no causal relationship between vaccines and autism and I’ve read the 2002 FDA report on it which says the same but why on earth did the Tripedia vaccine package insert have Autism listed under adverse events reported during post-approval use when like everyone and the experts say there is not even a causal link between vaccines and Autism, so under scientific understanding it should not even be there, but it was!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I normally stay clear of the whole autism/vaccine thing but I find myself wanting to comment. Myth 1: Vaccines cause autism. You say there is no causal relationship between vaccines and autism and I’ve read the 2002 FDA report on it which says the same but why on earth did the Tripedia vaccine package insert have Autism listed under adverse events reported during post-approval use when like everyone and the experts say there is not even a causal link between vaccines and Autism, so under scientific understanding it should not even be there, but it was!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using disk: basic

Served from: blogs.discovermagazine.com @ 2013-05-24 11:45:03 -->