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	<title>Comments on: The US Congress Anti-Science Committee</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/</link>
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		<title>By: flip</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342943</link>
		<dc:creator>flip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 02:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342943</guid>
		<description>@Brian T

The issue isn&#039;t whether or not someone holds those beliefs. The issue is that someone who holds those beliefs may wish to implement policies in important areas that aren&#039;t based on science.

A perfect example is the attempt to force schools to teach creationism in science classes. If you believe in creationism, then teach it in religious classes, not science.

In addition, I think seeing as how your Constitution prohibits government support of religion then one *should* care whether or not government *policy* is used to implement religious ideas. To put it another way: would you be annoyed if an Islamic politician started insisting that all girls in all public schools were to wear hijabs? Would you think &quot;you know, that politician can believe what he wants, but he shouldn&#039;t force his beliefs on other people&quot;?

Not forcing beliefs on other people is *exactly* what your founding fathers wanted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian T</p>
<p>The issue isn&#8217;t whether or not someone holds those beliefs. The issue is that someone who holds those beliefs may wish to implement policies in important areas that aren&#8217;t based on science.</p>
<p>A perfect example is the attempt to force schools to teach creationism in science classes. If you believe in creationism, then teach it in religious classes, not science.</p>
<p>In addition, I think seeing as how your Constitution prohibits government support of religion then one *should* care whether or not government *policy* is used to implement religious ideas. To put it another way: would you be annoyed if an Islamic politician started insisting that all girls in all public schools were to wear hijabs? Would you think &#8220;you know, that politician can believe what he wants, but he shouldn&#8217;t force his beliefs on other people&#8221;?</p>
<p>Not forcing beliefs on other people is *exactly* what your founding fathers wanted.</p>
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		<title>By: e2247</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342942</link>
		<dc:creator>e2247</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342942</guid>
		<description>Absolutely everything is political. Astronomy is as much about struggle as is anything else. Ask Copernicus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely everything is political. Astronomy is as much about struggle as is anything else. Ask Copernicus.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian T</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342941</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342941</guid>
		<description>I believe in a young earth (6000-9000 years old) not because there is overwhelming scientific evidence in support of it, but because I believe the Bible is God&#039;s truth, and it says so. (Actually, in my reading of Genesis, it technically doesn&#039;t say that the earth was created 6000 years ago, just &quot;in the beginning&quot; and that it &quot;was without form and void&quot; for some time, but that in a week God created life on the earth, including human beings, and thus began the 6000-or-so-year period of human history. And the rest of the universe could indeed be much, much older than the earth, but it was still created by God.)

I realize that there is evidence for (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2005/06/01/evidence-for-young-world) and against (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html) a young earth. But they cannot sway me from believing that God dictated the Bible, and therefore its statements are Truth. These are matters of faith, which is stronger than any apparent evidence.

I realize that many Christians don&#039;t believe that Genesis is literal - that there was a six-day creation, followed some 1600 years later by a global flood, followed several hundred years later by a Tower of Babel, followed pretty soon by the building of the pyramids and the rest of recorded history. And really, that isn&#039;t a &quot;heaven or hell&quot; matter, something of real importance like the beliefs in the Virgin Birth or the Resurrection. I like to use the example of someone that believes that the first President of the United States was Abraham Lincoln. They would be wrong, but it wouldn&#039;t make them go to Hell.

Anyway, to me the simpler explanation is that the Bible is literally true. Otherwise, it would distinguish better from a poetic, metaphorical story (as Genesis would otherwise be) and the things that really are important (two of which I just mentioned.) It&#039;s what I believe, and I don&#039;t think it really affects anybody else.

Now, I personally don&#039;t have any aspirations for elected office, but so what if I did? If people voted for me, then they would be supporting me (or at least calling me the lesser of two evils), and that would give me the right to be there. And let&#039;s say I wanted to be on the Science Committee and formulate legislation for our schools. People like to go on about how religion shouldn&#039;t have any place in government, but that is an empty argument. Because really, they are only saying that they think the people that should have a voice in government are the people who don&#039;t believe that my religion is true. And really, that is a religious belief too, isn&#039;t it? Are those people like me who have a religious belief not supposed to represent others, or be represented themselves? That&#039;s not the America our founding fathers intended, and not one I want to live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe in a young earth (6000-9000 years old) not because there is overwhelming scientific evidence in support of it, but because I believe the Bible is God&#8217;s truth, and it says so. (Actually, in my reading of Genesis, it technically doesn&#8217;t say that the earth was created 6000 years ago, just &#8220;in the beginning&#8221; and that it &#8220;was without form and void&#8221; for some time, but that in a week God created life on the earth, including human beings, and thus began the 6000-or-so-year period of human history. And the rest of the universe could indeed be much, much older than the earth, but it was still created by God.)</p>
<p>I realize that there is evidence for (<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2005/06/01/evidence-for-young-world" rel="nofollow">http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2005/06/01/evidence-for-young-world</a>) and against (<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html</a>) a young earth. But they cannot sway me from believing that God dictated the Bible, and therefore its statements are Truth. These are matters of faith, which is stronger than any apparent evidence.</p>
<p>I realize that many Christians don&#8217;t believe that Genesis is literal &#8211; that there was a six-day creation, followed some 1600 years later by a global flood, followed several hundred years later by a Tower of Babel, followed pretty soon by the building of the pyramids and the rest of recorded history. And really, that isn&#8217;t a &#8220;heaven or hell&#8221; matter, something of real importance like the beliefs in the Virgin Birth or the Resurrection. I like to use the example of someone that believes that the first President of the United States was Abraham Lincoln. They would be wrong, but it wouldn&#8217;t make them go to Hell.</p>
<p>Anyway, to me the simpler explanation is that the Bible is literally true. Otherwise, it would distinguish better from a poetic, metaphorical story (as Genesis would otherwise be) and the things that really are important (two of which I just mentioned.) It&#8217;s what I believe, and I don&#8217;t think it really affects anybody else.</p>
<p>Now, I personally don&#8217;t have any aspirations for elected office, but so what if I did? If people voted for me, then they would be supporting me (or at least calling me the lesser of two evils), and that would give me the right to be there. And let&#8217;s say I wanted to be on the Science Committee and formulate legislation for our schools. People like to go on about how religion shouldn&#8217;t have any place in government, but that is an empty argument. Because really, they are only saying that they think the people that should have a voice in government are the people who don&#8217;t believe that my religion is true. And really, that is a religious belief too, isn&#8217;t it? Are those people like me who have a religious belief not supposed to represent others, or be represented themselves? That&#8217;s not the America our founding fathers intended, and not one I want to live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Chromasome : Art Update &#187; &#160;Controlled Panic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342940</link>
		<dc:creator>Chromasome : Art Update &#187; &#160;Controlled Panic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342940</guid>
		<description>[...] dangerous, when we&#8217;re still passing laws protecting the right to teach creationism, and the US Congress science committee believes the Earth is 9000 years old.  I&#8217;ve also created some pseudoscience of my own in [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] dangerous, when we&#8217;re still passing laws protecting the right to teach creationism, and the US Congress science committee believes the Earth is 9000 years old.  I&#8217;ve also created some pseudoscience of my own in [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Anne Ominous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342939</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Ominous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342939</guid>
		<description>@James Evans -- 
The reason that I read what I did into your comment was that I was reading SelectiveOutrage&#039;s comment that was immediately prior to yours. You rant a lot about what he stated earlier, but did not address those points.

I admit that I should have realized more that you were addressing prior posts. Nevertheless, he still made some good points (in 121 for example). I retract the statement that the &quot;bulk&quot; of his comments may be correct. Still, some of yours are inaccurate as well. (Like the &quot;no taxes ever&quot; = Libertarian quip. Like so many others, you confuse Libertarianism with Anarchism. Sorry, but the Anarchists have their own political party, and Libertarians aren&#039;t &quot;no taxes ever&quot;. If you&#039;re going to chastise others, you should at least get your own political philosophies straight.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James Evans &#8212;<br />
The reason that I read what I did into your comment was that I was reading SelectiveOutrage&#8217;s comment that was immediately prior to yours. You rant a lot about what he stated earlier, but did not address those points.</p>
<p>I admit that I should have realized more that you were addressing prior posts. Nevertheless, he still made some good points (in 121 for example). I retract the statement that the &#8220;bulk&#8221; of his comments may be correct. Still, some of yours are inaccurate as well. (Like the &#8220;no taxes ever&#8221; = Libertarian quip. Like so many others, you confuse Libertarianism with Anarchism. Sorry, but the Anarchists have their own political party, and Libertarians aren&#8217;t &#8220;no taxes ever&#8221;. If you&#8217;re going to chastise others, you should at least get your own political philosophies straight.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jose Ortiz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342938</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose Ortiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342938</guid>
		<description>One day this country will squirm in its own filth for its profound disconnect from material reality. This entire world will suffocate in its sweaty atmosphere, deserts will spread on land and below sea, and people will crowd into the fortunate portions of our planet.  Only then, I believe, will most people understand the function of the economy: to turn natural resources into things humans value, simultaneously realizing that the thing we value most in this entire universe was our home. Oh the irony, this is going to be a most pathetic tragedy. 

All because most humans have some sort of fundamental trouble trusting measurement. Then maybe a new gospel will be added to the bible saying to believe also in measurement. Hmm. The possibilities!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One day this country will squirm in its own filth for its profound disconnect from material reality. This entire world will suffocate in its sweaty atmosphere, deserts will spread on land and below sea, and people will crowd into the fortunate portions of our planet.  Only then, I believe, will most people understand the function of the economy: to turn natural resources into things humans value, simultaneously realizing that the thing we value most in this entire universe was our home. Oh the irony, this is going to be a most pathetic tragedy. </p>
<p>All because most humans have some sort of fundamental trouble trusting measurement. Then maybe a new gospel will be added to the bible saying to believe also in measurement. Hmm. The possibilities!</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Haggath</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342937</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Haggath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 12:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342937</guid>
		<description>#151 Joseph G:
The late Sir Arthur C. Clarke, in his novel &lt;i&gt;The Songs of Distant Earth&lt;/i&gt;, described exactly what you suggest, as the only truly democratic form of government, with the added caveat that any individual who actually &lt;i&gt;applies&lt;/i&gt; for any political post is automatically disqualified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#151 Joseph G:<br />
The late Sir Arthur C. Clarke, in his novel <i>The Songs of Distant Earth</i>, described exactly what you suggest, as the only truly democratic form of government, with the added caveat that any individual who actually <i>applies</i> for any political post is automatically disqualified.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342936</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 04:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342936</guid>
		<description>@154 Messier Tidy Upper:  &lt;i&gt;I’d only add that I’d like those jury selected pollys to pass some sort of basic test to qualify so they understand at leats minimal science, logic and civics. (I.e. how the system works -constitution, branches of govt, separation of powers / church -state, etc..)&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, you can&#039;t forget that part.  That&#039;ll keep us from having any more Sarah Palins pop up :-P  On the face of it it sounds a bit odd, but then, we give people history and English tests just to obtain citizenship, so it only makes sense to test folks in positions of power more rigorously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@154 Messier Tidy Upper:  <i>I’d only add that I’d like those jury selected pollys to pass some sort of basic test to qualify so they understand at leats minimal science, logic and civics. (I.e. how the system works -constitution, branches of govt, separation of powers / church -state, etc..)</i></p>
<p>Yes, you can&#8217;t forget that part.  That&#8217;ll keep us from having any more Sarah Palins pop up <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' />   On the face of it it sounds a bit odd, but then, we give people history and English tests just to obtain citizenship, so it only makes sense to test folks in positions of power more rigorously.</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342935</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 00:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342935</guid>
		<description>@151.   Joseph G  : 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;I think it should be more like jury duty – a pool of people is randomly chosen, they’re screened to remove people with a criminal history, severe mental illness, hardship if taking care of a disabled relative or something, and then they have to be Senators or Representatives for x number of months or years. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yep. I do like that idea.

I&#039;d only add that I&#039;d like those jury selected pollys to pass some sort of basic test to qualify so they understand  at leats minimal science, logic and civics. &lt;i&gt;(I.e. how the system works -constitution, branches of govt, separation of powers  / church -state, etc..)&lt;/i&gt;  

Now the problem is going to be convincing the politicians to change to something like that from the current system!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@151.   Joseph G  : </p>
<blockquote><p><i>I think it should be more like jury duty – a pool of people is randomly chosen, they’re screened to remove people with a criminal history, severe mental illness, hardship if taking care of a disabled relative or something, and then they have to be Senators or Representatives for x number of months or years. </i></p></blockquote>
<p>Yep. I do like that idea.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d only add that I&#8217;d like those jury selected pollys to pass some sort of basic test to qualify so they understand  at leats minimal science, logic and civics. <i>(I.e. how the system works -constitution, branches of govt, separation of powers  / church -state, etc..)</i>  </p>
<p>Now the problem is going to be convincing the politicians to change to something like that from the current system!</p>
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		<title>By: Denis Puhar, MD</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/10/06/the-us-congress-anti-science-committee/#comment-342934</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis Puhar, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=54713#comment-342934</guid>
		<description>Sadly I got the chance to read this post on my mobile phone just few minutes ago. I generally try to avoid ANY &#039;social media&#039; if possible, but it seems a &#039;miracle&#039; had happened. 

It is a FIRST time for me, that I could not sleep (or at least not without having a nightmare), if I would not made a reply to this post, involving statements of certain U.S Congressman.

I have my own firm opinions, about politics too, yet I usually choose to keep them for myself. But in spite of that and although I&#039;m from EU and can be considered almost a total lay-man, when it comes to US political system, I was first in disbelief when I finished reading this article, thinking that this was some kind of &#039;bad joke&#039; taken straight out of a horror SF movie. Sadly it is not. 

And with my vivid imagination I made twisted parallels with the novel 1984 by George Orwell, to put it mildly. 

I excuse myself for such a long introduction, but reading this article I was left speechless for some time. Why? 

A while ago, I watched on cable TV a University lecture (US based) from a renowned lecturer, devoted solely to INCOMPETENCE on high positions and its consequences. At first I was a bit surprised, that this topic had been devoted so much attention and time. Now, I believe it should receive even MUCH more attention. But remember, incompetence is not STUPIDITY, but when you combine BOTH, something very dangerous beyond imagining emerges. 

And what those people on such high positions said PUBLICLY, makes in my humble opinion a perfect example of what I was talking about above.

So, why not give myself a chance to do so, when I still can, because if &#039;the Elite&#039; continues to make such statements, we are not so far away from being unable to comment on anything, if it has even a &#039;flavour&#039; of criticism in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly I got the chance to read this post on my mobile phone just few minutes ago. I generally try to avoid ANY &#8216;social media&#8217; if possible, but it seems a &#8216;miracle&#8217; had happened. </p>
<p>It is a FIRST time for me, that I could not sleep (or at least not without having a nightmare), if I would not made a reply to this post, involving statements of certain U.S Congressman.</p>
<p>I have my own firm opinions, about politics too, yet I usually choose to keep them for myself. But in spite of that and although I&#8217;m from EU and can be considered almost a total lay-man, when it comes to US political system, I was first in disbelief when I finished reading this article, thinking that this was some kind of &#8216;bad joke&#8217; taken straight out of a horror SF movie. Sadly it is not. </p>
<p>And with my vivid imagination I made twisted parallels with the novel 1984 by George Orwell, to put it mildly. </p>
<p>I excuse myself for such a long introduction, but reading this article I was left speechless for some time. Why? </p>
<p>A while ago, I watched on cable TV a University lecture (US based) from a renowned lecturer, devoted solely to INCOMPETENCE on high positions and its consequences. At first I was a bit surprised, that this topic had been devoted so much attention and time. Now, I believe it should receive even MUCH more attention. But remember, incompetence is not STUPIDITY, but when you combine BOTH, something very dangerous beyond imagining emerges. </p>
<p>And what those people on such high positions said PUBLICLY, makes in my humble opinion a perfect example of what I was talking about above.</p>
<p>So, why not give myself a chance to do so, when I still can, because if &#8216;the Elite&#8217; continues to make such statements, we are not so far away from being unable to comment on anything, if it has even a &#8216;flavour&#8217; of criticism in it.</p>
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