Comments on: A persistent Orionid

By: Joseph G

Joseph G — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 20:16:00 +0000

Cool! Are there any hypotheses out there as to why some meteors leave persistent trains and others don’t? Does the composition of the meteor make a difference?
Speaking of which, I wonder if a suitably quick and sensitive spectrometer could be built to guess at the composition of meteors via light from the fireballs? Sorta like the LIBS instrument on the Curiosity, ‘cept in this case the rock sample does the heating for us

Shoot, Google answered my question for me. Turns out scientists first analyzed spectra from meteors over a 110 years ago! I did not know that

By: Andrei

Andrei — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:34:12 +0000

@#3 Mike Lewinski
A deflection of the charged particles due to Earth’s magnetic field would produce two arching paths, tangent to each other in the starting point. The magnetic field would deflect the trails in an outward direction. The video shows two arching paths that are not tangent to each other – in fact they separate quite quickly and are deflected in an inward direction. From this, I would discard the Earth’s magnetic field as a possible explanation for the two paths.
More likely, I would say, is the hypothesis of the meteor exploding / breaking up and sending the debris (ionized left-overs) on those paths. The arching may be due to winds since a wind having the same direction as the initial meteor will bend both paths inward. In fact, friction between the wind and the ionized particles will act as an accelerating force that will yield a parabolic path for the trails.

By: Wzrd1

Wzrd1 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:57:03 +0000

Do we have actual measured altitude of the persistent trains? A quick web search shows imagery, but little on actual scientific measurements of altitude or spectra of the ion trail.

It’s strange to consider that we don’t know a great deal about our own atmosphere between the boundaries of balloon platforms and NEO platforms. Sounding rockets partially fill the gap, but only provide snapshots of a dynamic environment.
So, every indirect measurement we can get is worthwhile.

By: Mike Lewinski

Mike Lewinski — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:04:25 +0000

A friend of mine posed a question about the video:

The two trails on a curved path in opposite directions reminds me of the tracks of debris after a collision in a particle accelerator, where the curvature is the response of electrical charge moving in the magnetic field in the detector chamber, and the tightness of the curvature is related to the charge-to-mass ratio of the particle. Since you describe these as ion (i.e., charged particle) trails, I wonder if similar physics is at work within the Earth’s magnetic field?

I’m betting that there is very little wind at that altitude (~ 40-60 miles up?) and this seems like a plausible explanation for the pattern that is formed.

By: Grand Lunar

Grand Lunar — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:52:25 +0000

Very cool.
What might make it twist like that? Upper level winds or something?

Next month should be worth it, provided we get a strong Leonid shower.

By: Isha

Isha — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:34:38 +0000

Cool! I managed to catch multiple frames of one Orionid with an ion / debris train but it’s not nearly as crisp of an exposure. I need a cable release for the next shower.