. . . airplanes flying into skycrappers . . .

Yes, it all went into the crapper that day . . .

(Named for Thomas Crapper, inventor of the siphon flush.)

Can’t agree more. But then, I’m a deist and don’t believe in ANY of our organized religions, which have ALL been abused to justify murder and war.

What, even Buddhism?

@Nigel Depledge, “Really? Is Israel stronger than the UK?”
Don’t you mean Airstrip One?

This calls to mind a joke from about 25 years ago, when the US bombed Libya for some reason (it may have been a rection to the Lockerbie bombing).

Q: What’s the biggest aircraft carrier in the US Navy?
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A : Great Britain

@95 Wzrd1: Show where the new testament shows JESUS preaching for war. He preached a pacifist life, paying one’s taxes and waiting for deliverance.

How about Matthew 10:34?
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

Of course, later verses make it pretty clear that he was talking about philosophical conflict, not physical violence, and some translations even change “sword” to “division”. But honestly, it doesn’t much matter what he meant, only how people interpret it. It sounds like you and MaDeR are really saying the same thing; it just depends on your definition of when documentation ends and “abuse” begins. Are the Gospels written a hundred years or so after Jesus’ death still considered part of the original canon, or are they questionable stories based on old (even at the time) histories?

Amen. No military training here, but I’ll gladly be a distraction/bullet sponge for you if that day ever comes.

I have no problems with faith itself as well, I even believe in the radio frequency photon.
I also believe the world is flat, gravity just twists it into a ballish thingie (do the math to get how ridiculous that joke is).
Belief isn’t a problem. It’s when one attempts to force others to follow the beliefs not their own that there is a problem, which is something our constitution was designed to prevent.

I have no problem with faith itself (anyone have right to believe in santa or elves or magical zombie man or superalpha male in clouds whatever strikes your fancy). I have problem when people treat their fairytales too seriously. It ends up with inquisitions, cursades, persecutions, airplanes flying into skycrappers and other typical entertainment.

@shunt1, “On the contrary, FDR attempted to manipulate the free market and the depression lasted much longer than it should have. The United States did not recover until WWII. ”
Cattle cookies. FDR immediately caused growth to start when he began doing what the economists told him to do, spend stimulus money on the populace via public works projects. That put people to work, where they made money and spent money, which brought growth to the economy again. The ONLY part that was correct was WWII was when the depression finally fully ended. I studied the great depression quite a bit, as I had heard a lot about how tough it was from my parents, who grew up in it.

“Personally, I want the 47% to suffer. In four years, President Palin…”
So, you want the elderly, children and the disabled to suffer. That is the majority of that 47%. You want starvation to show the world how great this nation is! As far as Palin is concerned, that is the day I and a hell of a lot of SOCOM takes up arms against the nation, rather than permit an idiot like that access to thermonuclear arms.

@MTU, “Libertarianism like Communism may sound good in theory but cannot be practiced in the Real World.”
Can’t agree with you more. Both are perfect systems that lack perfect people to go with it. Greed is inherent in humanity, I honestly think it assisted in survival in ancient tribal times, but now it’s worn out its welcome.

“No that’s a strawman of what I’m saying which isn’t that at all. I am saying the USA should support human rights, democracies, stand up for its allies and oppose more strongly those who would attack and seek to destroy our way of life incl. the part where we encourage science – separation of church and state and global peace and prosperity.”
There are those who show the desire for the US to essentially BE the global empire. :/

“Maybe. From an ethical perspective sure that makes sense. It is not, alas , how our world works and nations that are threatened with or actually attacked do not always get the luxury of choosing to go to war.”
One word: Iran. Currently, the GOP is pushing very hard for war with Iran over mythical nuclear weapons. I say mythical because by now, if Iran were trying to construct nuclear arms, they should have a score of them at the minimum. IN spite of centrifuges being sabotaged and scientists being killed. If anything, one can consider the construction of RTG devices, as one uses that level of purity for their construction, as well as miniaturized reactors.

As far as your thoughts on Islam, I see very little difference between the trend in behavior of the faith overall of the conservative side and the Roman Catholic Church of even the 16th century. However, said conservative side is a very small minority, the rest tend to be “good Catholics” and go to service on the right day, ignore the rest for the remainder of the time. But, that’s my own personal experience of 5 years in the Persian Gulf.

“TSA = Transit Security Authority I think – and what I’m talking about here is preventing terrorist attacks NOT punishing people before they’ve done anything. ”
Pigeon Pellets. The TSA has repeatedly had employees steal from the traveling public. Known carcinogenic x-ray technology (per Sandia National Laboratories) were pushed, in spite of being known to be ineffective. My personal greeting to the US, after leaving a secure US airbase was a scrotum squeeze by a male TSA agent. I guess the TSA thinks that US military personnel are terrorists!
Their methods are heavy handed, largely ineffective and much was pure security theater. That is worse than far than security by obscurity, which they also practice. Security theater and security through obscurity are literally the same as no security at all, as effective security isn’t being practiced in lieu of ineffective methods.

“But look at how Obama snubbed and abused Israel’s PM Bibi Netanyahu.

And how he appeased the islamic world and street bowing and scraping to their leaders and symathising with theanti-Semitic, Islamic fundamentalist “Arab street.”

Obama sent the signals of weaker, lukewarm US support of isreal – the USA’s strongest ally and closely linked culture.”
Let’s see, how did he snub him? Didn’t go to Israel and bow to their crown? Neither did Bush for a long, long time. He still pushed through plenty of Israel friendly policies.
For being such great friends, we sure as hell have no bases in Israel. Yet, we have bases sponsored by several Islamic nations in the region.
Or do you mean when he admitted that the overthrow of a democratic government at the behest of British oil interests was bad, as in Operation Ajax in Iran?

“Some of his followers are okay, all of them are humans but the religion they follow is frankly the worst major religion on this globe in my view.”
Let’s review some really basic numbers, shall we? Approximately one billion Muslims in the world. If even 1% were extremist, that leaves 100 million. That number could just walk across Europe with only small arms and be victorious. That number could all use suicide vests and level every western government structure. The facts don’t support your claim of aggressive, antagonistic behavior. Suicide is a serious sin in the faith as well. Death in BATTLE defending the faith is considered martyrdom.

“Muslims worship – well venerate and respect – a man who was a pedophile, rapist and murdering desert bandit.”
No evidence of that whatsoever. Oh, he’s a pedophile by today’s standard? So is the Royal Crown in the UK then, as brides of 12-13 were the norm in ancient times when people were lucky to see 30-40. You make the classic error of viewing things of the ancient past through the moral filters of the 21st century.

“I think they are incredibly wrong to do so and to think “prophet” Mohammad’s life is an idea lone worth following. Mohammad was the archetypal crazy, mad and bad cult leader.”
Yes and no. You again fail to consider the society of the time with the moral filters of the time. When slavery was the norm, raping of female captives was the norm. If you want to call him crazy for getting an “angel teaching him the word” or whatever it is, I’ll go with you on him and Joe Smith (Romney would hate me for that one, too bad).

@MaDer, “I could mention many things, but I am too lazy. So I will give only one example for homework: read for yourself about support for various dictatiorships around the world by USA for decades to today. Some democracy leader, indeed.”
You could use one well documented example of today, Nicaragua, threatened by the US to be “turned into another Cuba” if they elected a communist leader over the leader the US supports.
If I travel anywhere in South America or the Philippines, the populace first think I’m CIA and steer well away from me if I identify myself as a US citizen.

@Nigel Depledge, “Really? Is Israel stronger than the UK?”
Don’t you mean Airstrip One?

“Fair enough. With this, I have no quibble.

What I object to is the way MTU singled out Muhammed for “crimes” that were pretty much a normal part of life across most of the inhabited world at the time.”
Can’t agree more. But then, I’m a deist and don’t believe in ANY of our organized religions, which have ALL been abused to justify murder and war.

I have no respect for any religious leader of past. Or present, for that matter.

Fair enough. With this, I have no quibble.

What I object to is the way MTU singled out Muhammed for “crimes” that were pretty much a normal part of life across most of the inhabited world at the time.