Comments on: The Chinese Education Boom http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:06:21 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Off I Go | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-692 Off I Go | Cosmic Variance Sat, 13 Aug 2005 03:14:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-692 [...] As I’ve mentioned already, for the first week there, I'll be lecturing at a summer school on cosmology at Zhejiang University, in Hangzhou, near Shanghai. In the second week I will be in Beijing, speaking at a Symposium on Particle Physics, Astrophysics and Cosmology. [...] [...] As I’ve mentioned already, for the first week there, I’ll be lecturing at a summer school on cosmology at Zhejiang University, in Hangzhou, near Shanghai. In the second week I will be in Beijing, speaking at a Symposium on Particle Physics, Astrophysics and Cosmology. [...]

]]> By: Mark http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-691 Mark Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:17:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-691 Great comments guys - this is really interesting. You've raised a number of things I haven't thought about in depth. One thing that I found intriguing about the description of the changes taking place in the Chinese system was that they seemed to be moving towards giving the students a broader education, while demanding rigorous science and technology standards, and putting those first and foremost. I don't know if that will help produce the next generation of, say, physics professors, but it does seem like it might help produce a technologically trained and versatile workforce. I don't personally know how much this differs from the Indian system, but it sounds from the comments here that there are significant differences. Great comments guys – this is really interesting. You’ve raised a number of things I haven’t thought about in depth.

One thing that I found intriguing about the description of the changes taking place in the Chinese system was that they seemed to be moving towards giving the students a broader education, while demanding rigorous science and technology standards, and putting those first and foremost. I don’t know if that will help produce the next generation of, say, physics professors, but it does seem like it might help produce a technologically trained and versatile workforce.

I don’t personally know how much this differs from the Indian system, but it sounds from the comments here that there are significant differences.

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-690 Arun Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:26:28 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-690 Cram schools in India are not happening because anyone thinks they are desirable. It is because opportunity is limited. Perhaps if India can learn the Chinese trick of near double-digit economic growth, then the aspirations of the young people can be met. Till then, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/28/wsuic28.xml Cram schools in India are not happening because anyone thinks they are desirable. It is because opportunity is limited. Perhaps if India can learn the Chinese trick of near double-digit economic growth, then the aspirations of the young people can be met. Till then,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/28/wsuic28.xml

]]> By: steve http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-689 steve Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:18:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-689 I would agree with Subohd entirely. A science education should be thorough and demanding but not so brutally competitive and overwhelming that it kills all sense of wonder, excitement and creativity and takes students to burnout, mental breakdown or suicide. The education system should (ideally) produce creative individuals with powerful analytical and technical abilities whose whose abilities are valued and respected; not a mass of cheap scientific slave labour, lab rats and programming fodder who can be hired and fired easily and paid very little. I would agree with Subohd entirely. A science education should be thorough and demanding but not so brutally competitive and overwhelming that it kills all sense of wonder, excitement and creativity and takes students to burnout, mental breakdown or suicide. The education system should (ideally) produce creative individuals with powerful analytical and technical abilities whose whose abilities are valued and respected; not a mass of cheap scientific slave labour, lab rats and programming fodder who can be hired and fired easily and paid very little.

]]> By: agm http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-688 agm Sat, 30 Jul 2005 04:17:19 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-688 Wow, the Indians have cram school too? Looks like the Japanese will have competition for highest high school suicide rate... Wow, the Indians have cram school too? Looks like the Japanese will have competition for highest high school suicide rate…

]]> By: Hui Chen http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-687 Hui Chen Sat, 30 Jul 2005 02:12:11 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-687 Welcome and enjoy your time in China, Mark! Welcome and enjoy your time in China, Mark!

]]> By: subodh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-686 subodh Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:48:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-686 As an Indian, who was raised in China (Hong Kong actually), and educated in the British educational system... i have the following tuppence worth to throw in here... sheer numbers, although they might seem impressive at first, can be the very downfall of an educational system. Judging from the experiences of my relatives, I very much doubt I'd be studying for my phd in physics were I raised in India... (see also arun's post) The almost epic competition that one has to endure throughout ones student career is enough to extinguish any sense of wonder, creativity, and curiosity in all but the most battle hardened souls. Its probably the same in China, though I hope I'm mistaken. Its one thing to churn out a nation of tech-savvy programmers and lab rats, and another thing to churn out the leading thinkers of the future. I think the USA, Canada, and Europe will remain the center of gravity for a while, that is, until China and India get out of the rat race mentality that is bound to stick around for as long as they're concerned with bettering their lot. As an Indian, who was raised in China (Hong Kong actually), and educated in the British educational system… i have the following tuppence worth to throw in here… sheer numbers, although they might seem impressive at first, can be the very downfall of an educational system. Judging from the experiences of my relatives, I very much doubt I’d be studying for my phd in physics were I raised in India… (see also arun’s post) The almost epic competition that one has to endure throughout ones student career is enough to extinguish any sense of wonder, creativity, and curiosity in all but the most battle hardened souls. Its probably the same in China, though I hope I’m mistaken. Its one thing to churn out a nation of tech-savvy programmers and lab rats, and another thing to churn out the leading thinkers of the future. I think the USA, Canada, and Europe will remain the center of gravity for a while, that is, until China and India get out of the rat race mentality that is bound to stick around for as long as they’re concerned with bettering their lot.

]]> By: Sean http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-685 Sean Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:59:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-685 Once Mark goes to China and teaches them cosmology, it's all over. Once Mark goes to China and teaches them cosmology, it’s all over.

]]> By: Kuas http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-684 Kuas Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:54:08 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-684 I don't think you understand the principle of comparative advantage. It does not make sense for American kids to go into science and engineering to compete with Chinese students. China simply has alot more smart kids than we do, there's no getting around it. America's strength is in its more highly developed capital infrastructure. American kids are better off studying business and law, so they can manage and sue their chinese couterparts. I don’t think you understand the principle of comparative advantage. It does not make sense for American kids to go into science and engineering to compete with Chinese students. China simply has alot more smart kids than we do, there’s no getting around it. America’s strength is in its more highly developed capital infrastructure. American kids are better off studying business and law, so they can manage and sue their chinese couterparts.

]]> By: Zero http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-683 Zero Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:46:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/07/29/the-chinese-education-boom/#comment-683 I am always a bit dubious about articles that say "we'd better be careful, or [INSERT COUNTRY HERE] will overtake us". After all, we heard the same thing about the Soviet Union in the 1950s, and Japan in the 1980s. China's Achilles heal may be the nature of its political system. You can hand out all the Ph.Ds you like, but are your Ph.Ds capable of doing real science? The bottom line is that, in a non-free society, people will never be as innovative and creative as they are in a free one. And since scientific and technological advancements are all about innovation, this is going to adversely affect Chinese output. Zero I am always a bit dubious about articles that say “we’d better be careful, or [INSERT COUNTRY HERE] will overtake us”. After all, we heard the same thing about the Soviet Union in the 1950s, and Japan in the 1980s. China’s Achilles heal may be the nature of its political system. You can hand out all the Ph.Ds you like, but are your Ph.Ds capable of doing real science? The bottom line is that, in a non-free society, people will never be as innovative and creative as they are in a free one. And since scientific and technological advancements are all about innovation, this is going to adversely affect Chinese output.

Zero

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