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	<title>Comments on: Cosmic Violence</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3369</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3369</guid>
		<description>Part of this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.airynothing.com/high_energy_tutorial/detection/images/compton_scatter.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;image url&lt;/a&gt; can be broken down to &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.airynothing.com/high_energy_tutorial/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;prospective site&lt;/a&gt;&quot; for education. Atlas comes to mind.

I hope this is correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of this <a href="http://www.airynothing.com/high_energy_tutorial/detection/images/compton_scatter.gif" rel="nofollow">image url</a> can be broken down to &#8220;<a href="http://www.airynothing.com/high_energy_tutorial/index.html" rel="nofollow">prospective site</a>&#8221; for education. Atlas comes to mind.</p>
<p>I hope this is correct?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3368</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3368</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Of course, that range of parameter space may also be really interesting for other things&lt;/i&gt;

Please excuse my layman views:)

When I saw the issue of meauring the time valuation of events in our early cosmological history, how could it not be considered in high energy applications?

I think this is the point about our depth of perception.

The &quot;calorimetric views&quot; provide the consistancy and penetration of the cosmological events as tangible realities, in relation too, the expansion of our universe.

 Such depths require a consistant view. From the &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/images/bb_history.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;planck epoch&lt;/a&gt;&quot; to now?

Such views are not understood if one did not have some comprehension of &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://cosmicweb.uchicago.edu/images/x.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the views&lt;/a&gt;&quot; of that early universe.  Andrey Kravtsov is very helpful here.:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Of course, that range of parameter space may also be really interesting for other things</i></p>
<p>Please excuse my layman views:)</p>
<p>When I saw the issue of meauring the time valuation of events in our early cosmological history, how could it not be considered in high energy applications?</p>
<p>I think this is the point about our depth of perception.</p>
<p>The &#8220;calorimetric views&#8221; provide the consistancy and penetration of the cosmological events as tangible realities, in relation too, the expansion of our universe.</p>
<p> Such depths require a consistant view. From the &#8220;<a href="http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/images/bb_history.gif" rel="nofollow">planck epoch</a>&#8221; to now?</p>
<p>Such views are not understood if one did not have some comprehension of &#8220;<a href="http://cosmicweb.uchicago.edu/images/x.gif" rel="nofollow">the views</a>&#8221; of that early universe.  Andrey Kravtsov is very helpful here.:)</p>
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		<title>By: Tim D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3367</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3367</guid>
		<description>&quot;Would &quot;Glast&quot; determinations fit into this category?&quot;

I&#039;m not too familiar with the proposed GLAST instrument so someone correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but from what I can tell from their public website they are looking at much higher energies (0.01-100 GeV) than Swift or HETE-2 (2-400 keV).  In which case, they would also have a hard time getting spectra for all but the highest energy bursts.  Of course, that range of parameter space may also be really interesting for other things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Would &#8220;Glast&#8221; determinations fit into this category?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not too familiar with the proposed GLAST instrument so someone correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but from what I can tell from their public website they are looking at much higher energies (0.01-100 GeV) than Swift or HETE-2 (2-400 keV).  In which case, they would also have a hard time getting spectra for all but the highest energy bursts.  Of course, that range of parameter space may also be really interesting for other things.</p>
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		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3366</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3366</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We would like to stress that in order to use GRBs to find the cosmological parameters, &lt;b&gt;we need a set of well measured data&lt;/b&gt;, and especially a well measured jet break time tbreak, necessary to find the collimation angle , and a good spectral determination of the prompt emission.&lt;/i&gt;

Would &quot;Glast&quot; determinations fit into this category?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We would like to stress that in order to use GRBs to find the cosmological parameters, <b>we need a set of well measured data</b>, and especially a well measured jet break time tbreak, necessary to find the collimation angle , and a good spectral determination of the prompt emission.</i></p>
<p>Would &#8220;Glast&#8221; determinations fit into this category?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3365</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3365</guid>
		<description>(oops, looks like the end of my last comment got munched.  Here&#039;s the rest...)

In particular, HETE-2 is particularly adept at detecting the low-energy cousins of GRBs â€&quot; X-Ray Flashes. XRFs seem to follow this same correlation as GRBs, but are usually seen at lower redshifts. And as Mark pointed out above, having probes of the z less than 2 universe is key to understanding Dark Energy.  GRBs are special because they may be standardizable candles that are visible over a redshift range of 0.1 to 6.3 (and possibly higher).

The correlation uncovered by Ghirlanda et al. is also a challenge for theorists to explain.  A better understanding of the underlying physics of the GRBs will hopefully allow us to understand and better use these correlations, and thereby improve the cosmological results as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(oops, looks like the end of my last comment got munched.  Here&#8217;s the rest&#8230;)</p>
<p>In particular, HETE-2 is particularly adept at detecting the low-energy cousins of GRBs â€&#8221; X-Ray Flashes. XRFs seem to follow this same correlation as GRBs, but are usually seen at lower redshifts. And as Mark pointed out above, having probes of the z less than 2 universe is key to understanding Dark Energy.  GRBs are special because they may be standardizable candles that are visible over a redshift range of 0.1 to 6.3 (and possibly higher).</p>
<p>The correlation uncovered by Ghirlanda et al. is also a challenge for theorists to explain.  A better understanding of the underlying physics of the GRBs will hopefully allow us to understand and better use these correlations, and thereby improve the cosmological results as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3364</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3364</guid>
		<description>Hi Clifford,

Yep, it is quite exciting.  The results in the Ghirlanda et al. paper I referenced are pretty much the state-of-the-art right now.  There are several other groups working along the same lines, but since everyone is using the same catalog of 40 or so bursts they&#039;re getting similar answers.  If we could increase the size of the sample of usable bursts then we could (1) test that the correlation is indeed correct, and (2) shrink the confidence regions for the cosmological parameters.

For a burst to be useful in this project we need 3 quantities:

(1) Burst redshift.
(2) A well-measured afterglow light-curve, which gives us information about the opening-angle of the relativistic jet that causes the GRB, and hence information about its total energy budget.
(3) A measurement of the peak energy of its spectrum.

The Swift satellite is ideally suited to get (1) and (2) and should discover hundreds of bursts over the next few years.  But Swift has a narrow spectral bandpass and has a hard time measuring (3).  The &lt;a href=&quot;http://space.mit.edu/HETE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;HETE-2&lt;/a&gt; satellite has a much broader spectral bandpass and can easily measure (3) for a wide range of bursts.  So a collaboration between Swift and HETE-2 would greatly expand this dataset.  Hopefully these arguments will convince NASA to fund HETE-2 in the coming years (full disclosure: I currently work on the HETE team :-)

In particular, HETE-2 is particularly adept at detecting the low-energy cousins of GRBs -- X-Ray Flashes.  XRFs seem to follow this same correlation as GRBs, but are usually seen at lower redshifts.  And as Mark pointed out above, having probes of the z</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Clifford,</p>
<p>Yep, it is quite exciting.  The results in the Ghirlanda et al. paper I referenced are pretty much the state-of-the-art right now.  There are several other groups working along the same lines, but since everyone is using the same catalog of 40 or so bursts they&#8217;re getting similar answers.  If we could increase the size of the sample of usable bursts then we could (1) test that the correlation is indeed correct, and (2) shrink the confidence regions for the cosmological parameters.</p>
<p>For a burst to be useful in this project we need 3 quantities:</p>
<p>(1) Burst redshift.<br />
(2) A well-measured afterglow light-curve, which gives us information about the opening-angle of the relativistic jet that causes the GRB, and hence information about its total energy budget.<br />
(3) A measurement of the peak energy of its spectrum.</p>
<p>The Swift satellite is ideally suited to get (1) and (2) and should discover hundreds of bursts over the next few years.  But Swift has a narrow spectral bandpass and has a hard time measuring (3).  The <a href="http://space.mit.edu/HETE" rel="nofollow">HETE-2</a> satellite has a much broader spectral bandpass and can easily measure (3) for a wide range of bursts.  So a collaboration between Swift and HETE-2 would greatly expand this dataset.  Hopefully these arguments will convince NASA to fund HETE-2 in the coming years (full disclosure: I currently work on the HETE team <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In particular, HETE-2 is particularly adept at detecting the low-energy cousins of GRBs &#8212; X-Ray Flashes.  XRFs seem to follow this same correlation as GRBs, but are usually seen at lower redshifts.  And as Mark pointed out above, having probes of the z</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Rozali</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3363</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Rozali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3363</guid>
		<description>Wonderful, this is the kind of thing I was fishing for...what can I say, the blog as an educational tool...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful, this is the kind of thing I was fishing for&#8230;what can I say, the blog as an educational tool&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Holden</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3362</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Holden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3362</guid>
		<description>There are a number of projects going on right now to use GRBs as standard candles.   All of the big telescopes have programs to interrupt regular observations to take spectra of GRBs, to measure their redshifts, and there are dedicated telescopes for getting their light curves.  Hopefully in a year or so, these results will pan out, though probably not at the redshifts Tim D is interested in, if he wants to use NIR spectrographs.

To me, the most exciting near term results will be using GRBs to study the intergalactic medium.  There is already a great spectrum out there in &lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0508270&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;astro-ph/0508270&lt;/a&gt; from a GRB.    The really cool thing is it shows stuff that no one has ever seen before.  Frankly, the authors cannot make heads or tails of some of the features, that is just awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a number of projects going on right now to use GRBs as standard candles.   All of the big telescopes have programs to interrupt regular observations to take spectra of GRBs, to measure their redshifts, and there are dedicated telescopes for getting their light curves.  Hopefully in a year or so, these results will pan out, though probably not at the redshifts Tim D is interested in, if he wants to use NIR spectrographs.</p>
<p>To me, the most exciting near term results will be using GRBs to study the intergalactic medium.  There is already a great spectrum out there in <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0508270" rel="nofollow">astro-ph/0508270</a> from a GRB.    The really cool thing is it shows stuff that no one has ever seen before.  Frankly, the authors cannot make heads or tails of some of the features, that is just awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3361</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3361</guid>
		<description>&quot;Probably the cosmology result that&#039;s generating the most excitement right now is the use of GRBs as &quot;standardizable candles&quot; &quot;

Tim D: That is a really exciting prospect! Has there been followup work on that?

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Probably the cosmology result that&#8217;s generating the most excitement right now is the use of GRBs as &#8220;standardizable candles&#8221; &#8221;</p>
<p>Tim D: That is a really exciting prospect! Has there been followup work on that?</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Tim D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3360</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3360</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

There are tons of interesting cosmological applications of GRBs.  Some of them aren&#039;t quite ready for prime-time, but give us a few years (and a larger dataset) and I bet we can compete!   Like Risa said, GRBs are great for studying &quot;later times&quot; cosmology (reionization, first stars, etc), but they also might have something to say about the &quot;5-10 magic numbers&quot;.

In a lot of ways, GRBs are the ideal probe of the reionization epoch in that they are easy to find and some percentage are likely occur and are detectable out to redshifts of 10-20.  Check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9909002&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lamb &amp; Reichart&lt;/a&gt; for a review of the cosmological applications.  GRBs are nicer than quasars for measuring the Gunn-Petersen trough because they have a simple intrinsic spectrum and, being transient events, they haven&#039;t completely disrupted the local environment before they explode (no proximity effect).  People do want to use them analogously to quasar absorption systems to put constraints on what lies between the burst and us (like Arun suggested).  The challenge is ensuring that the afterglow be detected and that high-resolution spectra of the afterglow can be obtained fairly quickly using the new generation of NIR spectrometers.  Hopefully, this latest Swift burst is just the tip of the iceberg in this regard.

Probably the cosmology result that&#039;s generating the most excitement right now is the use of GRBs as &quot;standardizable candles&quot; much in the same way that Type Ia supernovae have been used.  The breakthrough came last year in a paper by &lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0408350&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ghirlanda, Ghisselini &amp; Lazzati&lt;/a&gt;, where they discovered a very tight correlation between the total energy emitted in gamma-rays and the peak of the prompt spectrum.  Using this correlation they can place GRBs on Hubble diagrams, and they claim that a future large sample of Swift bursts will be competitive with the supernovae results in constraining OmegaM, Omega_Lambda and w.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>There are tons of interesting cosmological applications of GRBs.  Some of them aren&#8217;t quite ready for prime-time, but give us a few years (and a larger dataset) and I bet we can compete!   Like Risa said, GRBs are great for studying &#8220;later times&#8221; cosmology (reionization, first stars, etc), but they also might have something to say about the &#8220;5-10 magic numbers&#8221;.</p>
<p>In a lot of ways, GRBs are the ideal probe of the reionization epoch in that they are easy to find and some percentage are likely occur and are detectable out to redshifts of 10-20.  Check out <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9909002" rel="nofollow">Lamb &amp; Reichart</a> for a review of the cosmological applications.  GRBs are nicer than quasars for measuring the Gunn-Petersen trough because they have a simple intrinsic spectrum and, being transient events, they haven&#8217;t completely disrupted the local environment before they explode (no proximity effect).  People do want to use them analogously to quasar absorption systems to put constraints on what lies between the burst and us (like Arun suggested).  The challenge is ensuring that the afterglow be detected and that high-resolution spectra of the afterglow can be obtained fairly quickly using the new generation of NIR spectrometers.  Hopefully, this latest Swift burst is just the tip of the iceberg in this regard.</p>
<p>Probably the cosmology result that&#8217;s generating the most excitement right now is the use of GRBs as &#8220;standardizable candles&#8221; much in the same way that Type Ia supernovae have been used.  The breakthrough came last year in a paper by <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0408350" rel="nofollow">Ghirlanda, Ghisselini &amp; Lazzati</a>, where they discovered a very tight correlation between the total energy emitted in gamma-rays and the peak of the prompt spectrum.  Using this correlation they can place GRBs on Hubble diagrams, and they claim that a future large sample of Swift bursts will be competitive with the supernovae results in constraining OmegaM, Omega_Lambda and w.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3359</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3359</guid>
		<description>Would that not require a better understanding of what the GRB actually is, ie, you&#039;d have to know what to expect from the emissions to judge how they&#039;d been affected by the intervening space and its contents?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would that not require a better understanding of what the GRB actually is, ie, you&#8217;d have to know what to expect from the emissions to judge how they&#8217;d been affected by the intervening space and its contents?</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3358</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3358</guid>
		<description>Does the very fact of observability of gamma ray bursts from so far away put any interesting constraints on what might lie between the gamma ray burster and us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does the very fact of observability of gamma ray bursts from so far away put any interesting constraints on what might lie between the gamma ray burster and us?</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3357</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3357</guid>
		<description>I should add that I&#039;m no cosmologist, although I do know one or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that I&#8217;m no cosmologist, although I do know one or two.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3356</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3356</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d have thought that anything distant is useful because it helps fill in the gaps in structure evolution between decoupling (where the state of the universe is imprinted in the CMB) and the structure that we see today. Anything to help fill in those gaps is necessarily going to be bright, I&#039;d have thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d have thought that anything distant is useful because it helps fill in the gaps in structure evolution between decoupling (where the state of the universe is imprinted in the CMB) and the structure that we see today. Anything to help fill in those gaps is necessarily going to be bright, I&#8217;d have thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3355</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3355</guid>
		<description>Cosmic acceleration is a cosmological phenomenon of central importance, tied to fundamental physics in a deep way and effective at (and discovered by looking at objects that are at) redshifts less than 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cosmic acceleration is a cosmological phenomenon of central importance, tied to fundamental physics in a deep way and effective at (and discovered by looking at objects that are at) redshifts less than 2.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3354</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3354</guid>
		<description>No... don&#039;t give me a break. I sort of get into the bad habit of thinking of those 13.5 billion years as astrophysics (which is not to devalue it in any way), and push the term &quot;cosmology&quot; back earlier and earlier in the universe&#039;s life... I shouldn&#039;t. It&#039;s wrong. Bad me.

Cheers,

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No&#8230; don&#8217;t give me a break. I sort of get into the bad habit of thinking of those 13.5 billion years as astrophysics (which is not to devalue it in any way), and push the term &#8220;cosmology&#8221; back earlier and earlier in the universe&#8217;s life&#8230; I shouldn&#8217;t. It&#8217;s wrong. Bad me.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Risa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3353</link>
		<dc:creator>Risa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3353</guid>
		<description>Cosmology for the former and &quot;5-10 magic numbers&quot; for the later sounds good to me -- I work mostly on large scale-structure and galaxy formation (and sometimes on figuring out said numbers), and I definitely consider myself to be a cosmologist!  I just thought Clifford&#039;s &quot;interesting&quot; was neglecting essentially everything after first light... always funny to hear 13.5 billion years ago referred to as &quot;later times&quot; ;)  But I know even less about string theory, so I&#039;ll give you a break now, Clifford.

Re early reionization, the first WMAP results indicated z_reionization around 17 (with a *huge* errror bar, which will hopefully go way down with the release of the second third year data) or so, but SDSS quasars now are showing that it seems to be pretty patchy (varies between lines of sight to different quasars) and that it extends in some regions to about z~6 (perhaps later than these GRBs).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cosmology for the former and &#8220;5-10 magic numbers&#8221; for the later sounds good to me &#8212; I work mostly on large scale-structure and galaxy formation (and sometimes on figuring out said numbers), and I definitely consider myself to be a cosmologist!  I just thought Clifford&#8217;s &#8220;interesting&#8221; was neglecting essentially everything after first light&#8230; always funny to hear 13.5 billion years ago referred to as &#8220;later times&#8221; <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   But I know even less about string theory, so I&#8217;ll give you a break now, Clifford.</p>
<p>Re early reionization, the first WMAP results indicated z_reionization around 17 (with a *huge* errror bar, which will hopefully go way down with the release of the second third year data) or so, but SDSS quasars now are showing that it seems to be pretty patchy (varies between lines of sight to different quasars) and that it extends in some regions to about z~6 (perhaps later than these GRBs).</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Rozali</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3352</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Rozali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3352</guid>
		<description>Thanks Risa. I guess there could be a question what  I meant by  cosmology, just meant   &quot;large scale structure of the universe&quot; (which is of course a book about something else), and by large I would include galaxies and above. There is also the sense of cosmology referring to scales in which the universe is homogeneous and isotropic, as in the cosmological standard model . Maybe there should be separate terms for both ( I vote for  &quot;5-10 magic numbers&quot; for the latter).


Anyhow, I seem to remember early reionization was also in the CMB cards, so I guess my two data points are consistent...


best,

Moshe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Risa. I guess there could be a question what  I meant by  cosmology, just meant   &#8220;large scale structure of the universe&#8221; (which is of course a book about something else), and by large I would include galaxies and above. There is also the sense of cosmology referring to scales in which the universe is homogeneous and isotropic, as in the cosmological standard model . Maybe there should be separate terms for both ( I vote for  &#8220;5-10 magic numbers&#8221; for the latter).</p>
<p>Anyhow, I seem to remember early reionization was also in the CMB cards, so I guess my two data points are consistent&#8230;</p>
<p>best,</p>
<p>Moshe</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3351</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3351</guid>
		<description>Told you I know nothing!... :-D

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Told you I know nothing!&#8230; <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Risa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-3350</link>
		<dc:creator>Risa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/12/cosmic-violence/#comment-3350</guid>
		<description>Goodness gracious, Clifford -- what tiny fraction of the history of the Universe do you consider &quot;interesting&quot;?!?  ;)

From the little I&#039;ve read, this event took place above redshift 6, which makes it one of the earliest observable things light sources in the universe (there are now just a handful of galaxies and quasars above z=6).  I don&#039;t know the specifics of these new data, or a ton about GRB physics, but even the existance of this event at this redshift tells us probably constrains the formation of the earliest stars in the Universe.  Even if all you care about is the 5-10 magic cosmological parameters, and not the evolution of all of the light in the Universe, learning about early star formation can help constrain the reionization era -- which is degenerate with a lot of those parameters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goodness gracious, Clifford &#8212; what tiny fraction of the history of the Universe do you consider &#8220;interesting&#8221;?!?  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>From the little I&#8217;ve read, this event took place above redshift 6, which makes it one of the earliest observable things light sources in the universe (there are now just a handful of galaxies and quasars above z=6).  I don&#8217;t know the specifics of these new data, or a ton about GRB physics, but even the existance of this event at this redshift tells us probably constrains the formation of the earliest stars in the Universe.  Even if all you care about is the 5-10 magic cosmological parameters, and not the evolution of all of the light in the Universe, learning about early star formation can help constrain the reionization era &#8212; which is degenerate with a lot of those parameters.</p>
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