There are some issues with normalization here, but this roughly the idea. If the multiverse contains only two universes A and B, which are intrinsically equally likely, but universe A had a billion times more Elliots than universe B, then Elliot would be billion times more likely to find himself in A.

After you die, the information that you had once lived is still there, so the constraints still apply. Information cannot be erased because that would violate unitary time evolution.

OK lets work our way back. At what specific point can you define intelligent observers to have emerged.

Well, in multiverse theories you could narrow down the definition of an observer to an exact copy of you. This is, in principle, well defined.

the bible tells us that god was lonely so the universe came into being. looks like god is in for some more alone time again. the a new universe will come into being.

so loneliness seems to be the answer to why there is something rather than nothing.

I realize the NHL example is a red herring but this “principle” is fraught with linguistic, logical issues and imprecision, that make it very hard for me to include it in my own conceptual category of real science.

Elliot

Well, I don’t see that that this is necessarily a problem. Only in single universe theories do you get tautologies. In a multiverse you can consider the fact that there exists places where unfortunate copies of you live that have to do without NHL Hockey.

You can, in principle, do statistics on the set of all your copies. This also means that you can’t use the argument that since we live in a single universe the rest of the multiverse isn’t relevant. That would only be true if you could pin yourself down at a single place in the multiverse. But you can’t because you have an infinite number of exact copies that live in possibly slightly different (unknow to you) circumstances.

One can imagine that a fundamental parameters are fine tuned to yield intelligent observers. But on a set of observers, you wouldn’t expect a strong correlations between fundamental parameters and various sports. If you change the fundamental parameters to get rid of NHL Hockey, then you very likely get rid of the observer as well.

this should extend to all circumstances

Thanks Lubos for your patience and putting up with my “altered” ego

Elliot

You can imagine that biological creatures that are less susceptible to superstition develop their technologies faster than we do. At a certain point the biological creatures will be replaced by mchine intelligence.

So, one would expect that the total number of individual biological creatures that will ever live will be LESS in case of the less superstitious creatures. It is thus more typical for a biological creature to find him/herself in a ”backward” civilisation that evolves more slowly.

(rebuttal to DIVOKHAN)

For many, many years, Magical Thinking has controlled our ideas on how life on Earth began. Before the concept of Magic Evolution became politically correct, most people believed that a Magic God who spoke Magic Words was responsible for everything around us. Magic God spoke, and “POOF!”, massive or complex things instantaneously appeared or processes happened.

When Magic Evolution became our intolerant master, proponents of Magic Creation were scorned and ridiculed and rendered institutionally disadvantaged for believing in a Magic God who could make anything just by speaking Magic Words. Although Magic Evolution, too, could conjure complex, self-replicating life forms out of just a few chemicals, of its own accord and with no known controlling mechanism, it called itself Science and insisted Magic Creation was Religion only, disconnected with Science.

Magic Creation fought back, though, pointing out the problems with Magic Evolution and showing that Earth’s geology and Fossil Record could also be interpreted by Magic Creation. Magic Creation pointed out the record of massive Sudden Death in the Fossil Record as evidence for a Worldwide Flood. Magic Evolution interpreted it as an explosion of Sudden Life.

Magic Creation insisted that all Life was created in basic categories, able to reproduce itself, but only within these categories. Although all life forms were created to adapt to changing conditions, they were unable to cross over into different categories. Magic Evolution insisted that all Life descended from a single, primitive cell that assembled itself from raw materials in such a way that it could reproduce itself. Its descendents mutated, mutated again, and continued to mutate until the whole world was filled with complex and diverse life forms, all related to the First Mother/Father Cell. Magic Evolution said that lizards turned into birds and whales crawled up out of the sea to become land animals.

Although both accounts of Origins sound preposterous, the battle lines were drawn, and it was a fight to the death. Magic Evolution gained control of the education system, indoctrinated the children, often embraced fraudulent evidence as Truth, and denounced any alternative thinking as Religion. Magic Creation fought back, publicizing the loopholes and improbabilities in Magic Evolution, pointing out the frauds and hoaxes. Genetic reshuffling resulting in different colors or sizes of an animal or plant is a common occurrence, they argued, but self-synthesis of completely new DNA codes resulting in new functions has never been observed.

Magic Evolution couldn’t demonstrate how life created itself, Magic Creation couldn’t demonstrate there was a Magic God. The War of Origins was a stalemate.

The Law of Cause and Effect

The universe we know operates on the Law of Cause and Effect. If we see an Effect, we know that something caused it. If we initiate a Cause, we know an Effect will follow, perhaps imperceptibly, perhaps a little later, but always, there will be an Effect.

Science is the attempt to understand Causes and Effects. Once they’re understood, others can perform the same Cause and observe the same Effect. This is Experimental Science. Experiments can be performed to prove whether a Scientific Idea is True or False.

Theoretical Science is the attempt to explain Causes or Effects that are undergoing testing, or can’t be tested at all. Magic Evolution cannot be tested because we cannot travel back in time to observe it, and we cannot demonstrate it in a laboratory experiment. If Magic Evolution could demonstrate an experiment in which a DNA molecule created itself out of a solution of simple chemicals, then reproduced itself, then Magic Evolution would become simply, Evolution, the Truth. Anyone could reproduce the experiment and achieve the same results. There could be no other alternatives.

In the same way, Magic Creation can’t be tested, because we cannot travel back in time to observe it. If we could obtain absolute proof that it was true, perhaps by face-to-face public contact with one or more of God’s representatives, then Magic Evolution must be discarded.

By misinterpreting the Ancient Writings, Magic God Believers ignore the Law of Cause and Effect and cast contempt on Religion. They think that Magic God spoke, and it happened, because Magic Words are sufficient to be the Cause. Understood correctly, a powerful being, not Magic God, ordered the surface of the Earth to be altered to make it suitable for life, then ordered his subordinates to complete the synthesis of life, using highly advanced technology. God (we don’t know his real name), the powerful leader of an extraterrestrial civilization, gave the orders, others carried them out. To our dwarfish Earthminds, this feat of planetary landscaping and creation of life might seem farfetched, but to an ancient, highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization, it would be child’s play. They’ve done it before…

It took technology to create life, not spontaneous generation of life from non-life, not miracles. There are no such thing as “miracles”, only Effects we cannot explain with our limited understanding of the universe and the forces it contains. It took highly advanced technology to write and assemble the codes of life into a wide range of living, functioning creatures capable of adapting to changing environmental conditions. If you believe life created itself, then you, too, believe in miracles.

So then, we really have two major possibilities on Origins: Life created itself, or, Life was brought here or assembled here by Extraterrestrials who went somewhere else, afterwards. It’s not so much the evidence we see, but what we want to believe that makes us either Evolutionist or Creationist. Both require Faith, Faith in what seems Impossible. Neither have hard scientific proof. Neither can be proven experimentally. We just believe. What we see in geology and the fossil record is colored by what we believe. To some, a few teeth and a jawbone becomes a grunting, stooped-over half-ape, half-human, covered with thick hair…

Some Evolutionists delight in insulting Creationists and deriding them and their qualifications with mean-spirited invective, when they themselves lack the ability to respond with logical proofs based on hard science. Some Creationists, whose God is some fuzzy, luminous nebulosity, located somewhere outside of creation, respond with religious jargon about sin and repentance and grace.

We can get our MBS degrees from BSU and be able to prove our opponents are all morons while we exult in our triumphs. We can spew religious jargon and state that if the Bible says anything we believe it to say, it’s true. What we all need is to experience the forgiveness and the kindness of the one human whose memories came from somewhere else. If he came today, as he did a few thousand years ago, we too, would kill him. Isn’t that what we do to aliens?

True Christianity will make us all softer, kinder people. It’s not connected very much to churches and religion.

Well… that’s a new one, for me. It’s amazing what leaps we can make to come up with explanations that will allow us to keep our preconceived beliefs intact. For many it will not matter what history shows, what the evidence proves… if it is counter to their religious beliefs, they will either ignore it or come up with their own explanations. Of course, I would request evidence for this assumption, but I doubt it would be based on anything but more assumptions.

If you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, you don’t believe in a God that requires a pre-planned blueprint. And, even if God did require it, it would be perfect and the resulting action would follow that plan exactly. Not to mention, God would know exactly what the result of that creation would be… the supposed “fall” would have to be part of that plan. However, that is a purely religious debate… It’s difficult to match religion with logic.

Krista

Given this rather mechanical version of the question, it doesn’t matter how many alien species exist, they must by definition agree with the principle (granted a word besdes “anthropic” would be needed) because it is equally true for all life. If matter could not hold together or if gravity was too strong or space in general been very curved instead of flat so that the universe would have rapidly recontracted, no life would exist. Only the precise balance of forces has allowed the universe to exist in this way. This, by the way is not from the Bible which I am not versed in, but from Hawking.

More detatchment from the process… the anthropic principle indicates that we cannot violate the natural evolution of the ecosystem that we are contributing members of without putting ourselves above nature.

And the evidence sure doesn’t support either arrogant assumption that’s commonly made by “free-thinkers” and tree-hugger extremists alike… TOO alike.

All silliness aside, Mr. DAnarchyst may want to find a more traveled comments section to type his manifesto. Or better yet, he could put it on his own blog, or one where posters actually asked to read his metaphysical diatribe.

I will agree though, that this country is coming to a crossroads in regard to the paradigm that will inform our leaders in the coming decades: Proof vs. Persuasion.

Our leaders are going to make decisions based on either what is proven to work, or what they believe their constituents can be convinced will work. When you compare how much effort is needed to accomplish each course, it is plain to see which is more likely.

If we want actual solutions to our problems, if we want to have our schools teach what actually goes on in the world of the natural and the physical, then we must have the courage to choose leaders we know will ask hard things from us, rather than tell us we can have everything based on the sacrifices of others. That’s what we have now, and that is why we will fail as a species if we continue the way we are going.

Those space aliens that do visit us won’t have any questions posed to them about the anthropic principle or Mozart, we will all be gone by then, having persuaded ourselves right out of existance

“Anyone who is not shocked by Quantum Theory has not understood it” –Niels Bohr

It has been said in some philosophical circles, that the next battle it is not against terrorism but between Religion and Reason.

This next battle, which some of our bright, contemporary “thinkers” are finally beginning to understand, is not new. It started in the 18 century with the dawn of the Age of Reason. What these “thinkers” do not understand is that, sadly, before the battle is over, with the clear supremacy of Reason over Religion, more than half of humanity will be exterminated. It is then that our race will discover that it was all in vain, that Reason is not the next stage of human evolution, but yet another distraction equally dangerous as Religion.

Religions is institutionalized ritualistic Magic. Religion has two aspects: the EXOTERIC and the ESOTERIC. The EXOTERIC part is the one that everybody knows about, the big headlines that brainwash the masses. Let’s call it the structure of the ritual. The ESOTERIC part is the hidden knowledge, the Mysteria, the Alchemical or Magical foundation, the force behind the ritual. This secret part is only accessible by the “INICIATED ONES, the MAGIS, the HIGH PRIESTS, the CRAFTSMAN or the master MASON.” The EXOTERIC is the ritual, the ESOTERIC is the force behind the ritual.

The scientific world is in the verge of discovering the implications of the brain’s quantum activity. Some people called sliders apparently have the ability to turn lights off without touching them. These events are being seriously studied. In European laboratories human subjects are moving little robots with their brainwaves. Scientist are realizing that the so-called paranormal world might be intricately related to brain activity.

“THE PHYSICS OF CONSCIOUSNESS” by Evans Harris Walker: “To understand what actually goes on, we must first understand how this minuscule world of quantum wonder might effect the world we experience. Then we must understand how the consciousness and will that we have already shown to have quantum mechanical nature can affect matter by manipulating the indeterminacy that underlines every physical event.”

Today those who “at WILL” can “affect matter by manipulating the indeterminacy that underlines every physical event” are called Magicians, Sorcerer, Witches, High Priest and so on. These individuals are altering reality by “WILLING IT,” their will is driven by their EGOS, which in turn creates an imperfect reality, but a reality nonetheless that they can control for their own benefits. Or in the case of the egomaniacal type, he will use that WILL to “social engineer” our reality his way, because he thinks he knows best. (And no, I am not talking about George W., who is consider by the intellectual elite as dumb as a doorknob and just a puppet of THE BROTHERHOOD.)

These are the ones that create hell on earth, their “CRAFT” is imperfect so, as a result, their product is imperfect. They are very visible and successful, and so are their activities, but not the consequences, which are inevitably bad for humanity.

Then there is the other type, the kind that can “affect matter by manipulating the indeterminacy that underlines every physical event.” But this type can infinitely surpass these achievements not by EGO-WILLING, but by using SPONTANEITY. These are call Divine Anarchists or DAnarchysts. The product of their selfless or egoless acts results unequivocally in good for humanity. And they are invisible; they do not call attention to their acts.

The ego creates vibration, in itself the ego is ONE, the first step in an ondulatory motion of a wave function, while the absence of EGO is ZERO.

The zero “0″ vibration in a human being is acheived by stopping thought or “mind chatter.” At this point the spirit is liberated and is open to Infinity, connecting itself with all it was, is and will be–call it AKASHIC archives, the sublime bank of wisdom. At this juncture, the ultimate, purest intelligence purrs into your body and makes you act spontaneously, in a perfect way, as a DAnartyst. When the spirit goes back to equilibrium, it connects with totality and at that moment it realizes that it is Immortal, Infinite, Eternal and Divine.

While the perfect state of the spirit is ZERO (no vibration), as soon as the spirit is trapped in matter it is subject to all sort of energetic bombardment (gravity, electromagnetism, geological planetary and galactic), which in turn provokes disequilibrium and makes the spirit acquire vibration. (Matter being the jail of the spirit) and this is when the spirit is subject to hierarchical law.

One might say, then, that the direction of the spiritual human evolution it is not toward vibration (making dense matter/materialism, capitalism, egoism under hierarchical law) but toward non-vibration.

Divine Anarchy is how we express Divinity; it is our essence, but most of as don’t know it.

“And in the beginning there was nothing (CHAOS)”, which is not disorder but the absence of the need for order.
DIVINE ANARCHY is the expression of the spirit in the cosmos (CHAOTIC and STRUCTURAL) that does not follow hierarchical laws or structure of any kind, and it is only achieved by the extinction of the ego and the acquisition of true spontaneity.

In the Tarot deck we know that the expression DIVINE ANARCHY or equilibrium is ZERO–the Divine Anarchist par excellence is the fool. The magician is ONE.

Scientists know that our galaxies were spit out of a white hole–or from a zero point—that’s where everything started. And scientists also know that black holes exist, where matter disappears into the middle of it in a “strangling” zero point. So if one accepts that the vibration mode of the spirit is ZERO, our way in and out of this material universe is ZERO.
A camel will pass true the eye of a needle before an impure man does. (The camel doesn’t have the “egotistical vibrational charge” the man does.)

When the spirit enters the body (Matter), it is immediately affected and restrained by hierarchical laws, by RELIGIONS that are suppose to show the way of liberation but instead become the structural jail. And the same thing can be said for pure Rationalism.

You must act in equilibrium, which is zero, no vibration. Then “WILL” is no longer yours, but from the source–Divine Anarchy and pure knowledge. At that point, there is no fear, no wanting, no EGO driven WILL. Fear creates vibration. Wanting something creates vibration. Acting upon your will based in your ego creates vibrations.

So EGO prevents us from achieving “bliss,” “nirvana,” “enlightenment,” “satori” and so forth.

Let’s pause for a moment and see here who on our planet uses their ego to its fullest: political and religious leaders, artists, stars, sportsmen, scientists, and everyone that has achieved success, position or power by his or her own will.

Visibility is, without a doubt, a sign of EGO. It does not matter if you are Buddha, Zoroaster, Mohamed, Sai Baba, a Mystic or any of the known Prophets; if you create a POLARITY by trying to explain your mystical experience, you are part of the mess not the solution. That’s because words cannot explain a mystical experience. Add to that the person’s particular interpretation based on their cultural background, and you get EGO-POLARITIES, which create millions of followers. Those followers, by defending “their truth” provoke genocide more savage and despicable than Jim Jones, David Koresh and Manson put together and multiplied a million times.

Krishnamurti recognized this fact and denounce himself, admitting that he was wrong, but it was to late.

With their signature of energy, these ego-driven “famous” figures marked our lives forever, creating polarities of energy, which in turn, clashed against each other, provoking what we experience today. (Islam vs. Christianity to site an example.)

In large or small scale, everyone is trying to impose their view on others. Depending in the power of their WILL and their EGOS, they irrevocably effect the environment in which they exist. When this occurs matter becomes harder and harder, egos stronger and stronger. And we end up imitating the most popular of these figures, or becoming ourselves the new EGO-brand in the market.

This behavior is happening all over the planet. There are very few that have escaped the trap and move freely in this earth and universe as immortals.

We where “taken” from spontaneity and introduced to Reason, from non ego to ego, from divine to human, from the Golden Age of immortality to finite mortals. That is the message in the myth of LUCIFER, the bringer of the light (LUCIFER from the Latin meaning light-bearing, light-bringing), who gave us knowledge=REASON.

In the Vedas (ancient sacred text of India from thousands of years before Christ) or the Oahspe Bible, you will find references to Fragapatti, one of the first known “saviors” of humanity. Fragapatti comes to “save” Hoab and the people of Zeredho. According to the text, these people were living in a state of perfection, heaven on earth. But, according to Fragapatti, since they did not know JEHOVIH, his father and GOD creator, they were in spiritual decay. So he gave them the knowledge.

Fragapatty says:
… The inhabitants lying at ease, some amusing
themselves weaving threads of light, then unraveling
them and weaving them over again; others playing with crystals and lenses and opaque and transparent
elements, but not one neither doing anything for another; nor, in fact, needed they, for all were capable of doing for themselves.
(Fragapatti; VI, 10)

It was apparent that they didn’t, in fact, need to be save.

By Brian Rotman:
“For Aristotle, engaged in classifying, ordering and analyzing the world into its irreducible and final categories, objects, causes and attributes, the prospect of an unclassifiable emptiness, an atributeless hole in the nature fabric of being, isolated from cause and effect and detached from what it was palpable to the senses, must have presented itself as a dangerous sickness, a God-denying madness that left him with an ineradicable HORROR VACUI”

By Marcel Proust:
“It has indeed been said that the highest praise of God consist in the denial of him by the atheist, who finds creation so perfect that he can dispense with a creator”

I do not believe in the myth of Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Fragapatti and the saviors that humanity has had until now. But believe you me, we can learn a lot cross-referencing all those myths.

Matthew 26:39 “And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying ‘My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I WILL, but as you WILL.”

This mythological religious figure is relinquishing his EGO-INFECTED WILL, for the WILL he has known by achieving Divine Anarchy.

All religions still have the primordial knowledge, THE KYE, but are so changed and diluted that it is all but lost in the sea of utter nonsense, The truth of the mystical experience is so devastatingly mind blowing, that most of those who achieve Divine Anarchy “come back” thinking that they have seen God or talked to him, when in reality they have perceived the grandiose potential of the spirit–they have talked to and seen themselves in the mirror of infinity.

I think that God does not exist as we have been led to believe. WE ARE GODS.

“In the zero point of a wave function is the path way to infinity.” –J.A.L DAnarchyst

–J.A.L DAnarchyst