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	<title>Comments on: Celebrity Throwdown? Einstein versus Newton</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Newton Knocks Stuffing Out Of Einstein &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7259</link>
		<dc:creator>Newton Knocks Stuffing Out Of Einstein &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 07:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7259</guid>
		<description>[...] Well, as I cautioned in the post which reported this tete-a-tete, the result does not matter. However, a result has been announced* and it is in line with the views expressed by Cosmic Variance readers: Newton beat Einstein by a knockout. It was not even close. The Royal Society&#8217;s website says:  A total of 1363 members of the public voted online and 345 Royal Society scientists responded to an email questionnaire. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Well, as I cautioned in the post which reported this tete-a-tete, the result does not matter. However, a result has been announced* and it is in line with the views expressed by Cosmic Variance readers: Newton beat Einstein by a knockout. It was not even close. The Royal Society&#8217;s website says:  A total of 1363 members of the public voted online and 345 Royal Society scientists responded to an email questionnaire. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7258</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7258</guid>
		<description>Uhoh. Multiple Aarons now....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uhoh. Multiple Aarons now&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7257</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7257</guid>
		<description>&quot;I will vote for Newton. Proof:&quot;

The fact that you voted for Newton requires no proof! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I will vote for Newton. Proof:&#8221;</p>
<p>The fact that you voted for Newton requires no proof! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7256</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7256</guid>
		<description>As much as I adore Einstein, I have to conjecture that if it came down to a fistfight, Newton would win. Newton was a hardass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I adore Einstein, I have to conjecture that if it came down to a fistfight, Newton would win. Newton was a hardass.</p>
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		<title>By: Johan Richter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7255</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan Richter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7255</guid>
		<description>It should be that he presented new theories of course, not that he presented no theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be that he presented new theories of course, not that he presented no theories.</p>
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		<title>By: Johan Richter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7254</link>
		<dc:creator>Johan Richter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7254</guid>
		<description>I will vote for Newton. Proof:
The proof will be based on two lemmas.

Lemma 1: Newton was the better mathematical physicist. Proof:Obvious, he did after all co-discover calculus and thus developed the mathematical tools used by physicists in addition to presenting no theories.

Lemma 2: Newton was the better experimental physicist. Proof: Also obvious. Einstein, did he do any experiments at all?

Conclusion: While Einstein &lt;strong&gt;maybe&lt;/strong&gt; was the better &quot;not-mathematical-but-still-theoretical&quot; physicist that simply is not enough to outweigh Newtons accomplishments. So Newton was the beter physicist. QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will vote for Newton. Proof:<br />
The proof will be based on two lemmas.</p>
<p>Lemma 1: Newton was the better mathematical physicist. Proof:Obvious, he did after all co-discover calculus and thus developed the mathematical tools used by physicists in addition to presenting no theories.</p>
<p>Lemma 2: Newton was the better experimental physicist. Proof: Also obvious. Einstein, did he do any experiments at all?</p>
<p>Conclusion: While Einstein <strong>maybe</strong> was the better &#8220;not-mathematical-but-still-theoretical&#8221; physicist that simply is not enough to outweigh Newtons accomplishments. So Newton was the beter physicist. QED.</p>
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		<title>By: Zelah</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7253</link>
		<dc:creator>Zelah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7253</guid>
		<description>Lets see now,

Newton was a great experimentalist, Einstein was not.
Newton was Coinventor of Calculus. Einstein does not invent Tensor Calculus.

Newton 2, Einstein 0.

Einstein invents SR.
Newton invents Universal Gravitation.

Newton 3, Einstein 1.

Einstein by his work on atomic systems, finalises CLASSICAL PHYSICS.

Newton 3, Einstein 2.

Einstein wastes last 30 odd years on QGr. Newton on Alchemy.

Newton 2, Einstein 1.

Thereby I am with Newton.

However in my humble opinion, it is easier to list the greatest Scientists than to do the above!

Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, Maxwell, Darwin, Einstein.

Why is this list so easy? Most Scientists are SPECIALISTS. Even Feymann, although he would dabble essentially was a theoretical physicist

(I understand, that he wrote a paper on Quantum computers, but he did not really publish the paper which put the field on the amazing path of that it finds itself today - that would be Deutsch work).

 To be truly great, one has to go beyond one narrow specialisation.

Are there going to be truly great scientists in the future? Now that is the question?

An amateur mathematician</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets see now,</p>
<p>Newton was a great experimentalist, Einstein was not.<br />
Newton was Coinventor of Calculus. Einstein does not invent Tensor Calculus.</p>
<p>Newton 2, Einstein 0.</p>
<p>Einstein invents SR.<br />
Newton invents Universal Gravitation.</p>
<p>Newton 3, Einstein 1.</p>
<p>Einstein by his work on atomic systems, finalises CLASSICAL PHYSICS.</p>
<p>Newton 3, Einstein 2.</p>
<p>Einstein wastes last 30 odd years on QGr. Newton on Alchemy.</p>
<p>Newton 2, Einstein 1.</p>
<p>Thereby I am with Newton.</p>
<p>However in my humble opinion, it is easier to list the greatest Scientists than to do the above!</p>
<p>Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, Maxwell, Darwin, Einstein.</p>
<p>Why is this list so easy? Most Scientists are SPECIALISTS. Even Feymann, although he would dabble essentially was a theoretical physicist</p>
<p>(I understand, that he wrote a paper on Quantum computers, but he did not really publish the paper which put the field on the amazing path of that it finds itself today &#8211; that would be Deutsch work).</p>
<p> To be truly great, one has to go beyond one narrow specialisation.</p>
<p>Are there going to be truly great scientists in the future? Now that is the question?</p>
<p>An amateur mathematician</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7252</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7252</guid>
		<description>X^2: &#039;&#039;Important as well to know is that Einstein contributed greatly to Quantum theory in the earlier years, his qualm simply, was with probablistic intepretation of nature that quantum physicist applied to nature wholesale. He lost touch with progress simply because he became obsessed with his search for a unified theory.&#039;&#039;

If he had a large following for his search to find the unified theory, the situation would be similar to string theory today. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>X^2: &#8221;Important as well to know is that Einstein contributed greatly to Quantum theory in the earlier years, his qualm simply, was with probablistic intepretation of nature that quantum physicist applied to nature wholesale. He lost touch with progress simply because he became obsessed with his search for a unified theory.&#8221;</p>
<p>If he had a large following for his search to find the unified theory, the situation would be similar to string theory today. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7251</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7251</guid>
		<description>X^2,

You&#039;re right that much of the mathematics was in place for both the special and general theories. But I think you&#039;re underestimating Einstein&#039;s contribution here. Consider special relativity: Poincare had the mathematics but never really accepted Einstein&#039;s interpretation (died 1912). That seems a strong indication that the interpretation was not an obvious step. Similarly, with general relativity Einstein had the key physical insight - the equivalence principle.

I think what I find attractive about Einstein is that he shows physics is more than mathematics. It needs an extra spark of insight that turns a formal manipulation of symbols into a description of reality. He may not have shined at mathematics or experiment, but this quality of physical insight is so rare and so central to physics that it pushes Einstein to the front rank.

(Newton&#039;s idea of universal gravitation was a similar step. The mathematics of objects on earth and objects in the heavens was arguably in place (although not so completely as with relativity). The revolutionary step was to realise that they were governed by the &lt;em&gt;same laws&lt;/em&gt;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>X^2,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that much of the mathematics was in place for both the special and general theories. But I think you&#8217;re underestimating Einstein&#8217;s contribution here. Consider special relativity: Poincare had the mathematics but never really accepted Einstein&#8217;s interpretation (died 1912). That seems a strong indication that the interpretation was not an obvious step. Similarly, with general relativity Einstein had the key physical insight &#8211; the equivalence principle.</p>
<p>I think what I find attractive about Einstein is that he shows physics is more than mathematics. It needs an extra spark of insight that turns a formal manipulation of symbols into a description of reality. He may not have shined at mathematics or experiment, but this quality of physical insight is so rare and so central to physics that it pushes Einstein to the front rank.</p>
<p>(Newton&#8217;s idea of universal gravitation was a similar step. The mathematics of objects on earth and objects in the heavens was arguably in place (although not so completely as with relativity). The revolutionary step was to realise that they were governed by the <em>same laws</em>.)</p>
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		<title>By: agm</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7250</link>
		<dc:creator>agm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7250</guid>
		<description>Ok, so there things to add. Einsten was one of the seminal figures in establishing the first round of quantum mechanical theory (the pre-1920s stuff, not the material of the Solvay conferences), both from his Brownian motion work, and from his photoelectric effect work, which many accounts paint as the first evidence to really start convincing the world of physics that quanta were more than a mathematical convenience. There was the laser. There was Bose-Einstein statistics and condensation. Going back to the Solvay conferences, Newton had his Liebnitz, Einstein had Bohr. He &lt;I&gt;was&lt;/I&gt; the founder of one of the two major branches of early-20th century physics and a major contributor to the other.

Do not confuse the search for an electromagnetic theory of matter (for example, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001990/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this review paper&lt;/A&gt;), which is the project that Lorentz and his fellows were engaged in, with relativity. They are quite different theories, different aims, and one failed. The math remained because it was useful, and because it can be related to a valid physical theory.

Of couse, this is really a silly exercise anyways, because at some point the theories and experiments we now think to be the best, that tell us better than anything before about the world, will be surpassed by even better ideas and experiments (for example, what if Chad Orzell were to end up finding an electric dipole moment!), and there are people who have done physics every bit as ground breaking as either Newton or Einstein but who are being compared here. Why is Maxwell, with his completion of electrodynamics and displacement current not in the running? What about Michelson and Morley? Hubble and cosmology? Copernicus and solar centricism? Heimlich and his maneuver?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, so there things to add. Einsten was one of the seminal figures in establishing the first round of quantum mechanical theory (the pre-1920s stuff, not the material of the Solvay conferences), both from his Brownian motion work, and from his photoelectric effect work, which many accounts paint as the first evidence to really start convincing the world of physics that quanta were more than a mathematical convenience. There was the laser. There was Bose-Einstein statistics and condensation. Going back to the Solvay conferences, Newton had his Liebnitz, Einstein had Bohr. He <i>was</i> the founder of one of the two major branches of early-20th century physics and a major contributor to the other.</p>
<p>Do not confuse the search for an electromagnetic theory of matter (for example, see <a href="http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001990/" rel="nofollow">this review paper</a>), which is the project that Lorentz and his fellows were engaged in, with relativity. They are quite different theories, different aims, and one failed. The math remained because it was useful, and because it can be related to a valid physical theory.</p>
<p>Of couse, this is really a silly exercise anyways, because at some point the theories and experiments we now think to be the best, that tell us better than anything before about the world, will be surpassed by even better ideas and experiments (for example, what if Chad Orzell were to end up finding an electric dipole moment!), and there are people who have done physics every bit as ground breaking as either Newton or Einstein but who are being compared here. Why is Maxwell, with his completion of electrodynamics and displacement current not in the running? What about Michelson and Morley? Hubble and cosmology? Copernicus and solar centricism? Heimlich and his maneuver?</p>
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		<title>By: Cygnus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7249</link>
		<dc:creator>Cygnus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7249</guid>
		<description>Joe said: ``&lt;i&gt;I would suggest that Cygnus, who says opposition to quantum was a major mark against Einstein, underestimates the importance of the debate over quantum. Einstein may have been on the wrong side but I believe his opposition was, at the time, productive. Does anyone think that the EPR paper was not worth writing? Would we have had the Bell inequalities or Aspect&#039;s experiments without it? Does anyone think that the Bohr-Einstein debates&lt;/i&gt;&#039;&#039;
I totally agree.  My last comment about quantum theory, was just a flippant remark (hence the smiley) which I though was well suited to an excercise as absurd as comparing two great scientists living in different eras.

If it seemed from my comments that I think ``&lt;i&gt;all Newton did was clean up the details of what was already known&lt;/i&gt;&#039;&#039;, then I&#039;m not as good at communication as I should like to be.  Having leafed through parts of the Principia, it is impossible to not to be awestruck by the sheer mathematical beauty of his arguments.
In fact if you think about it Newton&#039;s idea of a Universal law of gravitation, in itself is as revolutionary for its times as Special Relativity.  So when we&#039;re making these comparisons, it&#039;s abvious that they are simply subjective views on the lines of six-year-old Superman vs. Godzilla discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe said: &#8220;<i>I would suggest that Cygnus, who says opposition to quantum was a major mark against Einstein, underestimates the importance of the debate over quantum. Einstein may have been on the wrong side but I believe his opposition was, at the time, productive. Does anyone think that the EPR paper was not worth writing? Would we have had the Bell inequalities or Aspect&#8217;s experiments without it? Does anyone think that the Bohr-Einstein debates</i>&#8221;<br />
I totally agree.  My last comment about quantum theory, was just a flippant remark (hence the smiley) which I though was well suited to an excercise as absurd as comparing two great scientists living in different eras.</p>
<p>If it seemed from my comments that I think &#8220;<i>all Newton did was clean up the details of what was already known</i>&#8221;, then I&#8217;m not as good at communication as I should like to be.  Having leafed through parts of the Principia, it is impossible to not to be awestruck by the sheer mathematical beauty of his arguments.<br />
In fact if you think about it Newton&#8217;s idea of a Universal law of gravitation, in itself is as revolutionary for its times as Special Relativity.  So when we&#8217;re making these comparisons, it&#8217;s abvious that they are simply subjective views on the lines of six-year-old Superman vs. Godzilla discussions.</p>
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		<title>By: X^2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7248</link>
		<dc:creator>X^2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7248</guid>
		<description>Also, I feel that people are assuming that Einstein magically pulled from thin air completely new results.  Such is not the case, both times, in General and Special Relativity, most of the work had already been done by others. It simply took Einstein&#039;s insight and bravery to willingly put two and two together.

For special relativity, it could have readily formulated after Maxwell finished his work. Lorentz, Fitzgerald, Poincare and some few others had already postulated much along the same lines as Einstein, none of them simply went far enough with connecting the philosophy with the mathematics.

The same again applies for General Releativity, whose mathematics had been laid down many decades prior by those like Riemann, Ricci and Levi-Civita. Einstein simply had to give up notions of Euclidean geometries holding everywhere, coupled with his equivalence principle he was up and cruising to a complete theory.

Important as well to know is that Einstein contributed greatly to Quantum theory in the earlier years, his qualm simply, was with probablistic intepretation of nature that quantum physicist applied to nature wholesale. He lost touch with progress simply because he became obsessed with his search for a unified theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I feel that people are assuming that Einstein magically pulled from thin air completely new results.  Such is not the case, both times, in General and Special Relativity, most of the work had already been done by others. It simply took Einstein&#8217;s insight and bravery to willingly put two and two together.</p>
<p>For special relativity, it could have readily formulated after Maxwell finished his work. Lorentz, Fitzgerald, Poincare and some few others had already postulated much along the same lines as Einstein, none of them simply went far enough with connecting the philosophy with the mathematics.</p>
<p>The same again applies for General Releativity, whose mathematics had been laid down many decades prior by those like Riemann, Ricci and Levi-Civita. Einstein simply had to give up notions of Euclidean geometries holding everywhere, coupled with his equivalence principle he was up and cruising to a complete theory.</p>
<p>Important as well to know is that Einstein contributed greatly to Quantum theory in the earlier years, his qualm simply, was with probablistic intepretation of nature that quantum physicist applied to nature wholesale. He lost touch with progress simply because he became obsessed with his search for a unified theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfgang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7247</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7247</guid>
		<description>Newton was certainly a better Alchemist than Einstein ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newton was certainly a better Alchemist than Einstein &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: X</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7246</link>
		<dc:creator>X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7246</guid>
		<description>Very well, Newton wins by virtue of being the superior theologian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well, Newton wins by virtue of being the superior theologian.</p>
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		<title>By: X^2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7245</link>
		<dc:creator>X^2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7245</guid>
		<description>spyder, I do not think that is accurate. There were many people who could match or arguably better Einstein.  Poincare, Hilbert, Godel, von Neumann, Weyl perhaps even Heisenberg. Each of them was a better physicist or mathematician or sometimes both. Specifically, it is well known that Einstein was neither a good physicist nor a brilliant mathematician. He was simply a person who extended his integrity to his deductions on how nature might behave and he seemed, also to be able to consistently ask the correct questions and turn in the right direction of exploration.

It should be noted as well that Hilbert formulated a theory of general relativity from a langrangian in only a few weeks; simulatanously with einstein who had given a lecture on his incorrect form of the theory which, Hilbert had attended and was able to note the error. Both corresponded and it cannot be said who truly was first nor whose ideas were independently original, although Hilbert did concede priority. Nonetheless, Hilbert did in weeks what took Einstein decades. Although the direct route of deducing - from consequences in his special theory with respect to the accepted Newtonian concept - taken by Einstein, was the more difficult and he required much help, including from, Grossman (especially) and Emmy Noether.

What is it that Hilbert said? &lt;em&gt;&quot;Every street urchin in our mathematical GÃ¶ttingen knows more about four-dimensional geometry than Einstein. Nevertheless, it was Einstein who did the work, not the great mathematicians.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;. I think that  statements encapsulates best, the skill of Einstein. He knew when to let go [and move forward].

----

Some truly brilliant people though, would be Gauss or William Hamilton or especially, George Green. The farmer with no (well 1 year, age 8 to 9) schooling who worked on a forerunner of Electromagnetism and invented techniques in vector calculus from his barn. While raising some 8 or 9 kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spyder, I do not think that is accurate. There were many people who could match or arguably better Einstein.  Poincare, Hilbert, Godel, von Neumann, Weyl perhaps even Heisenberg. Each of them was a better physicist or mathematician or sometimes both. Specifically, it is well known that Einstein was neither a good physicist nor a brilliant mathematician. He was simply a person who extended his integrity to his deductions on how nature might behave and he seemed, also to be able to consistently ask the correct questions and turn in the right direction of exploration.</p>
<p>It should be noted as well that Hilbert formulated a theory of general relativity from a langrangian in only a few weeks; simulatanously with einstein who had given a lecture on his incorrect form of the theory which, Hilbert had attended and was able to note the error. Both corresponded and it cannot be said who truly was first nor whose ideas were independently original, although Hilbert did concede priority. Nonetheless, Hilbert did in weeks what took Einstein decades. Although the direct route of deducing &#8211; from consequences in his special theory with respect to the accepted Newtonian concept &#8211; taken by Einstein, was the more difficult and he required much help, including from, Grossman (especially) and Emmy Noether.</p>
<p>What is it that Hilbert said? <em>&#8220;Every street urchin in our mathematical GÃ¶ttingen knows more about four-dimensional geometry than Einstein. Nevertheless, it was Einstein who did the work, not the great mathematicians.&#8221;</em>. I think that  statements encapsulates best, the skill of Einstein. He knew when to let go [and move forward].</p>
<p>&#8212;-</p>
<p>Some truly brilliant people though, would be Gauss or William Hamilton or especially, George Green. The farmer with no (well 1 year, age 8 to 9) schooling who worked on a forerunner of Electromagnetism and invented techniques in vector calculus from his barn. While raising some 8 or 9 kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7244</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 00:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7244</guid>
		<description>Spyder, that&#039;s an interesting point about debate.

I would suggest that Cygnus, who says opposition to quantum was a major mark against Einstein, underestimates the importance of the debate over quantum. Einstein may have been on the wrong side but I believe his opposition was, at the time, productive. Does anyone think that the EPR paper was not worth writing? Would we have had the Bell inequalities or Aspect&#039;s experiments without it? Does anyone think that the Bohr-Einstein debates were not worth while? They may not have come up with useful answers, but they made people think, and made people realise they needed to think harder. I think it is unlikely that the final chapter has been written on quantum (on any other theory of physics), and Einstein was certainly correct to question it when others around him seemed to take it as dogma that no more could ever be said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spyder, that&#8217;s an interesting point about debate.</p>
<p>I would suggest that Cygnus, who says opposition to quantum was a major mark against Einstein, underestimates the importance of the debate over quantum. Einstein may have been on the wrong side but I believe his opposition was, at the time, productive. Does anyone think that the EPR paper was not worth writing? Would we have had the Bell inequalities or Aspect&#8217;s experiments without it? Does anyone think that the Bohr-Einstein debates were not worth while? They may not have come up with useful answers, but they made people think, and made people realise they needed to think harder. I think it is unlikely that the final chapter has been written on quantum (on any other theory of physics), and Einstein was certainly correct to question it when others around him seemed to take it as dogma that no more could ever be said.</p>
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		<title>By: spyder</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7243</link>
		<dc:creator>spyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7243</guid>
		<description>bittergradstudent mentioned Liebniz, and for me i think that is what made the difference in my vote.  Newton was constantly challenged by Liebniz, a pair of amazingly plastic minds that were capable of envisioning as many possible explorations of their known and proximally known universe.  This &quot;competition&quot; forced them to focus vast energies on every detail, struggling not just to be &quot;RIGHT&quot; but for the blessings of power and patronage that would enable greater and broader questioning.

Einstein had his pool of &quot;competitors&quot; but none seemed to be his equal, neither in the capacity to inquire with the necessary incredible focussed meditative energies (as in seeking resolution to his thought problems) or in &quot;imagining&quot; the furthest possible reaches of the relevancy of his big ideas.  He had his job, he had his few worldly interests, he had Newton and Liebniz before him.

I was happy that the Royal Society allowed us two votes.  Thus i could equivocate and vote for both; although i side more w/ Newton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bittergradstudent mentioned Liebniz, and for me i think that is what made the difference in my vote.  Newton was constantly challenged by Liebniz, a pair of amazingly plastic minds that were capable of envisioning as many possible explorations of their known and proximally known universe.  This &#8220;competition&#8221; forced them to focus vast energies on every detail, struggling not just to be &#8220;RIGHT&#8221; but for the blessings of power and patronage that would enable greater and broader questioning.</p>
<p>Einstein had his pool of &#8220;competitors&#8221; but none seemed to be his equal, neither in the capacity to inquire with the necessary incredible focussed meditative energies (as in seeking resolution to his thought problems) or in &#8220;imagining&#8221; the furthest possible reaches of the relevancy of his big ideas.  He had his job, he had his few worldly interests, he had Newton and Liebniz before him.</p>
<p>I was happy that the Royal Society allowed us two votes.  Thus i could equivocate and vote for both; although i side more w/ Newton.</p>
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		<title>By: CapitalistImperialistPig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7242</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalistImperialistPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7242</guid>
		<description>So far the Newton knockers seem pretty clueless about his acomplishments.  I suggest they might read one of the many excellent Newton biographies.  It&#039;s utterly preposterous to proclaim that all Newton did was clean up the details of what was already known.  The notion that Einstein&#039;s accomplishment is somehow diminished by his refusal to accept the conventional quantum wisdom is equally silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So far the Newton knockers seem pretty clueless about his acomplishments.  I suggest they might read one of the many excellent Newton biographies.  It&#8217;s utterly preposterous to proclaim that all Newton did was clean up the details of what was already known.  The notion that Einstein&#8217;s accomplishment is somehow diminished by his refusal to accept the conventional quantum wisdom is equally silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Morton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7241</link>
		<dc:creator>Morton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7241</guid>
		<description>Hello:
  I just started Quicksilver by Stephenson, and then ran
across this blog. www.blogwise.com has been a nice method to surf the blog-o-sphere.
  On the question, though;
  All giants, in science, stand on the shoulders of
other giants. The challenge of this question is of course that the answer is both, or neither.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello:<br />
  I just started Quicksilver by Stephenson, and then ran<br />
across this blog. <a href="http://www.blogwise.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.blogwise.com</a> has been a nice method to surf the blog-o-sphere.<br />
  On the question, though;<br />
  All giants, in science, stand on the shoulders of<br />
other giants. The challenge of this question is of course that the answer is both, or neither.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/comment-page-1/#comment-7240</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/18/celebrity-throwdown-einstein-versus-newton/#comment-7240</guid>
		<description>I think that the more we know the more difficult it is for us to value the contributions made by people a long time ago like Newton and even Einstein. When comparing Newton to Einstein we tend to be biased against Newton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the more we know the more difficult it is for us to value the contributions made by people a long time ago like Newton and even Einstein. When comparing Newton to Einstein we tend to be biased against Newton.</p>
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