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	<title>Comments on: Potty Potter Punters</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/</link>
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		<title>By: Dissident</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7298</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7298</guid>
		<description>#13: Told you so. ;)

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/18/news/funny/bc.leisure.boxoffice.reut/index.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13: Told you so. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/18/news/funny/bc.leisure.boxoffice.reut/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/18/news/funny/bc.leisure.boxoffice.reut/index.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: CapitalistImperialistPig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7316</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalistImperialistPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7316</guid>
		<description>And Clifford - If you want to see HP fans dress up, you need to go to one of the midnight book releases - only one more chance.  My kids were too old and sophisticated for that sort of nonsense, but it turned out I had lots of friends there anyway - everybody recognized Dumbledore!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Clifford &#8211; If you want to see HP fans dress up, you need to go to one of the midnight book releases &#8211; only one more chance.  My kids were too old and sophisticated for that sort of nonsense, but it turned out I had lots of friends there anyway &#8211; everybody recognized Dumbledore!</p>
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		<title>By: CapitalistImperialistPig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7315</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalistImperialistPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7315</guid>
		<description>Tolkien &quot;clunky and stilted?&quot;  On what planet?  JRRT wasn&#039;t Shakespeare but he was a graceful and elegant writer.  His Elvish and Westron speakers talk a very formal English, but it has a lot of poetry to it also.  &quot;Not lightly do the leaves of Lorien fall.&quot;  If you think that&#039;s a clunky and stilted way to say that Meriadoc&#039;s leaf shaped elven clasp didn&#039;t fall off by accident, then may everyone learn to be that clunky.

I was very disappointed in HPGOF (the movie).  I know the book rather well, and the movie was little more than a series of incoherent cartoons of the plot.  I think Newell&#039;s work was far inferior to Alfonso Cuaron&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Prisoner of Azkaban&lt;/i&gt; in atmosphere and cinematic artistry, and inferior to all the other movies in plot coherence and magical feeling.  Moaning Myrtle was one of the few bright spots - but she was better still in the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tolkien &#8220;clunky and stilted?&#8221;  On what planet?  JRRT wasn&#8217;t Shakespeare but he was a graceful and elegant writer.  His Elvish and Westron speakers talk a very formal English, but it has a lot of poetry to it also.  &#8220;Not lightly do the leaves of Lorien fall.&#8221;  If you think that&#8217;s a clunky and stilted way to say that Meriadoc&#8217;s leaf shaped elven clasp didn&#8217;t fall off by accident, then may everyone learn to be that clunky.</p>
<p>I was very disappointed in HPGOF (the movie).  I know the book rather well, and the movie was little more than a series of incoherent cartoons of the plot.  I think Newell&#8217;s work was far inferior to Alfonso Cuaron&#8217;s <i>Prisoner of Azkaban</i> in atmosphere and cinematic artistry, and inferior to all the other movies in plot coherence and magical feeling.  Moaning Myrtle was one of the few bright spots &#8211; but she was better still in the book.</p>
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		<title>By: a.krug</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7314</link>
		<dc:creator>a.krug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2005 03:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7314</guid>
		<description>Clifford wrote:

&lt;i&gt;I preferred to devote the time (on that genra) to trying Philip Pullman&#039;s books, which I much preferred. I will try the Potter books again...one day....but I have this huge huge huge reading list, and I cannot see me finding time any time soon.&lt;/i&gt;

Understood.... I haven&#039;t gotten around to reading the Pullman books, though they&#039;ve been recommended by people whose taste I trust. I must have at least a hundred novels around that I haven&#039;t gotten to yet. Physics keeps interfering with my reading habits. (Know of any joint physics/literature jobs? ;-) )


Donna wrote:

&lt;i&gt;The Potter books are fun and my youngest enjoys them, but Tolkein *is* fine literature that practically invented the genre of fantasy. &lt;/i&gt;

I actually find it kind of hard to justify Tolkien as &quot;fine literature,&quot; but it probably amounts to wondering what defines &quot;literature&quot; anyway. Tolkien did some amazing things in those books, constructing a deeply intricate world and telling a compelling story. But much the same thing can be said for what Rowling has done in the Harry Potter books! It&#039;s hard for me to pinpoint what it is that makes the Tolkien books seem more serious as literature, because, well, they just don&#039;t seem to be to be that &lt;i&gt;literary&lt;/i&gt;. I haven&#039;t read one in its entirety in ages, but from what I recall (and glancing back at bits) the prose was just kind of clunky and stilted. If Tolkien is a great storyteller it&#039;s because of the greatness of the story, not of the telling. In that sense the works fall short of truly great literature. On the other hand, there&#039;s undoubtedly something about the books that makes them seem like serious literature. I guess it&#039;s probably the thoroughly academic approach Tolkien took to building a fantasy world, investing it with realistic languages and cultures that were developed in far greater depth than was presented in the novels themselves. This underlying richness seeps through and makes the story that much more compelling. I&#039;m really sort of apathetic about Tolkien compared to most people I know -- I have little desire to ever re-read his books -- but I do think they are a great achievement.


That said, I think Rowling has created a pretty impressively detailed fantasy herself. It&#039;s really all the little things that make the HP books so nice: recurring minor details that build up the sense that this is a detailed and believable world. It might not have the encyclopedic background that Tolkien developed, but the world of Rowling&#039;s books is quite intricate and consistent. She also writes with great humor and wit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clifford wrote:</p>
<p><i>I preferred to devote the time (on that genra) to trying Philip Pullman&#8217;s books, which I much preferred. I will try the Potter books again&#8230;one day&#8230;.but I have this huge huge huge reading list, and I cannot see me finding time any time soon.</i></p>
<p>Understood&#8230;. I haven&#8217;t gotten around to reading the Pullman books, though they&#8217;ve been recommended by people whose taste I trust. I must have at least a hundred novels around that I haven&#8217;t gotten to yet. Physics keeps interfering with my reading habits. (Know of any joint physics/literature jobs? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>Donna wrote:</p>
<p><i>The Potter books are fun and my youngest enjoys them, but Tolkein *is* fine literature that practically invented the genre of fantasy. </i></p>
<p>I actually find it kind of hard to justify Tolkien as &#8220;fine literature,&#8221; but it probably amounts to wondering what defines &#8220;literature&#8221; anyway. Tolkien did some amazing things in those books, constructing a deeply intricate world and telling a compelling story. But much the same thing can be said for what Rowling has done in the Harry Potter books! It&#8217;s hard for me to pinpoint what it is that makes the Tolkien books seem more serious as literature, because, well, they just don&#8217;t seem to be to be that <i>literary</i>. I haven&#8217;t read one in its entirety in ages, but from what I recall (and glancing back at bits) the prose was just kind of clunky and stilted. If Tolkien is a great storyteller it&#8217;s because of the greatness of the story, not of the telling. In that sense the works fall short of truly great literature. On the other hand, there&#8217;s undoubtedly something about the books that makes them seem like serious literature. I guess it&#8217;s probably the thoroughly academic approach Tolkien took to building a fantasy world, investing it with realistic languages and cultures that were developed in far greater depth than was presented in the novels themselves. This underlying richness seeps through and makes the story that much more compelling. I&#8217;m really sort of apathetic about Tolkien compared to most people I know &#8212; I have little desire to ever re-read his books &#8212; but I do think they are a great achievement.</p>
<p>That said, I think Rowling has created a pretty impressively detailed fantasy herself. It&#8217;s really all the little things that make the HP books so nice: recurring minor details that build up the sense that this is a detailed and believable world. It might not have the encyclopedic background that Tolkien developed, but the world of Rowling&#8217;s books is quite intricate and consistent. She also writes with great humor and wit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7313</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7313</guid>
		<description>(Naomi Watts is in the Fay Wraye role)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Naomi Watts is in the Fay Wraye role)</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7312</guid>
		<description>Ah Dissident, there is great flop potential in the re-make, absolutely, which is going to make it all the more awesome when it is a hit...I think Jackson is going to make the most ferocious yet loveable Kong yet...we&#039;ll have to wait a couple of weeks and see, but I don&#039;t see how someone with Jackson&#039;s talents can screw it up...he&#039;s got Kong protecting Watts from not one, not two, but 3 Tyrannosaurus Rexes...it&#039;s in the trailer...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah Dissident, there is great flop potential in the re-make, absolutely, which is going to make it all the more awesome when it is a hit&#8230;I think Jackson is going to make the most ferocious yet loveable Kong yet&#8230;we&#8217;ll have to wait a couple of weeks and see, but I don&#8217;t see how someone with Jackson&#8217;s talents can screw it up&#8230;he&#8217;s got Kong protecting Watts from not one, not two, but 3 Tyrannosaurus Rexes&#8230;it&#8217;s in the trailer&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dissident</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7311</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7311</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t help but wonder: do we really need yet another King Kong remake...? &quot;I sense great flop potential in this one, Master Kenobi&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t help but wonder: do we really need yet another King Kong remake&#8230;? &#8220;I sense great flop potential in this one, Master Kenobi&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7310</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7310</guid>
		<description>p.s.  Donna, they are making &quot;His Dark Materials&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4133846.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;into a movie&lt;/a&gt;, as we speak...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s.  Donna, they are making &#8220;His Dark Materials&#8221; <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4133846.stm" rel="nofollow">into a movie</a>, as we speak&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7309</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7309</guid>
		<description>For Harry Potter fans - one of the questions left at the end of the Half-Blood Prince is answered in the Goblet of Fire...the question has to do with Snape&#039;s loyalties, and the answer is in Mad-Eye&#039;s foe glass, I&#039;m wondering if the movie shows this part of the book...I also love Pullman, his Dark Materials are a digestible version of &quot;Paradise Lost,&quot; and I couldn&#039;t put them down (deeply flawed, ok, but great nevertheless)...Mark you might want to try Pullman&#039;s Sally Lockhart mysteries, they aren&#039;t as strong (his Dark Materials is a high bar) but they are still totally engaging, darkness and redemption throughout.  Tolkien is the king, hands down (like Newton over Einstein)...wait for Peter Jackson&#039;s version of King Kong, it is going to be awesome, like his LOTR...the guy who played Gollum (Andy Serkis) is also the model for Kong, so he should have a great face and great movements...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Harry Potter fans &#8211; one of the questions left at the end of the Half-Blood Prince is answered in the Goblet of Fire&#8230;the question has to do with Snape&#8217;s loyalties, and the answer is in Mad-Eye&#8217;s foe glass, I&#8217;m wondering if the movie shows this part of the book&#8230;I also love Pullman, his Dark Materials are a digestible version of &#8220;Paradise Lost,&#8221; and I couldn&#8217;t put them down (deeply flawed, ok, but great nevertheless)&#8230;Mark you might want to try Pullman&#8217;s Sally Lockhart mysteries, they aren&#8217;t as strong (his Dark Materials is a high bar) but they are still totally engaging, darkness and redemption throughout.  Tolkien is the king, hands down (like Newton over Einstein)&#8230;wait for Peter Jackson&#8217;s version of King Kong, it is going to be awesome, like his LOTR&#8230;the guy who played Gollum (Andy Serkis) is also the model for Kong, so he should have a great face and great movements&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dissident</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7308</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/20/potty-potter-punters/#comment-7308</guid>
		<description>I for one loved the Balrog (and the excited discussions online afterwards; &quot;wings, baby, wings!&quot;). And the cave troll. The whole underground sequence, really. But the nazgul were at best indifferent, and the hyena-like &quot;wolves&quot; a real disappointment. Their appearance in a gratuitous action scene which wasn&#039;t even in the book (and the extensive plot rewrite as a whole) certainly didn&#039;t help.

With Potter I have the &quot;advantage&quot; of not having read, and not planning to ever read, the books, so no expectations to disappoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one loved the Balrog (and the excited discussions online afterwards; &#8220;wings, baby, wings!&#8221;). And the cave troll. The whole underground sequence, really. But the nazgul were at best indifferent, and the hyena-like &#8220;wolves&#8221; a real disappointment. Their appearance in a gratuitous action scene which wasn&#8217;t even in the book (and the extensive plot rewrite as a whole) certainly didn&#8217;t help.</p>
<p>With Potter I have the &#8220;advantage&#8221; of not having read, and not planning to ever read, the books, so no expectations to disappoint.</p>
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