Comments on: Farewell to Limbo

By: Elliot

Elliot — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 19:55:32 +0000

Science is not inflexible or flexible. It is a process whereby ideas about how reality work are continually tested against that reality in a feedback loop.

By: Plato

Plato — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 19:53:58 +0000

Belizean,

They’d have a long way to go from the archaic, to present day solutions. This doesn’t dis-avow good thinking intelligence amongst the hierarchy, but there is a class distinction that has to be upheld?

What needs to be upheld in science is and has been tried and tested, and is open to theoretcial idealizations as long as they issue from some “guiding principal.”

There is a lot of room here in terms of definitions of what might behind the creations in terms of a God, right from atheistic as Sean teaches to some guiding principal behind the matter consolidations and buddhist teaching about responsibility?

Who said one couldn’t learn when they had applied thinking, but from the class distinction of religiousness of the Catholic system, how could you compare?

By: Belizean

Belizean — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 19:29:01 +0000

I wonder how the public perception of Catholicism is affected by a change in its doctrines? My guess is that the Church is held in less esteem.

How, then, can the public perception of Physics not be similarly affected by the inevitable changes in its “doctrines”?

Interestingly, it seems that inflexibility might be widely perceived as a virtue in religion and a vice in science.

By: Walt Pohl

Walt Pohl — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 16:56:02 +0000

I have a friend who’s studying to be a Catholic theologian, and he tells me that it is an open question in Catholic theology as to whether anyone is in hell. As I understand it, there are two competing interpretations: a) Christians who sincerely repent do not go to hell (confession is a method of repenting, but not strictly necessary) and Christians and non-Christians who commit sins that they do not understand are sins do not go to hell. The only way to go to hell would be to do something you deliberately know is wrong, and not repent it afterwards. b) Virtuous non-Christians go to hell, but hell for them is not that bad (a la Dante). One notion is that Hell is not in itself a punishment, just not being in the presence of God after you die.

By: Peter

Peter — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 16:15:57 +0000

JoAnne –

The RC Church believes some words of Jesus: “Whatever is bound on earth is bound in Heaven, whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in Heaven.” So this is how a human committee, rather than God, can decide what metaphysical entities do or do not exist.

This belief in the ultimate authority of man over God would enable all manner of adjustments to official RC belief (eg, over contraception, women priests, etc) if only anyone in charge was minded to use it.

By: island

island — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:26:20 +0000

Uncle Al drinks like a Catholic…

By: Plato

Plato — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:30:03 +0000

….how about we just stay “real” as to the consequences of our actions?

That we never recognized how far reaching this could have been implicated beyond the confines of causal order? That it might have a deeper connection to karmic ties? That what was once spooky to einstein, has now amazing entangling properties

“Like winning the lottey and getting hit by a car.” Then making a list to making amends ( what’s the name of the TV series escapes me right now)

The “Limbo Religion” tried to take care of this, but has failed:) A 538 AD constanople thingy I think?

By: erc

erc — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:26:49 +0000

Oh my God… (oops…there I go, sinning again). I’m going to the Seventh Circle! Even if Mark were to give me a drink as I pass you guys on the way there, it’s so hot that far in it would all boil away. ;(

By: invcit

invcit — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:31:49 +0000

Growing up in a fundamentalist Christian home, I was taught that:

1. Everyone is born with the original sin, and will go to hell if they do not accept Jesus as their personal saviour.

2. In the eyes of God all sins count equally, i e by committing them you deserve hell.

3. Even if someone accepts Jesus, they will go to hell if they committed the so-called spiritual sin, sin against the Holy Ghost.

We have had many earthly leaders who lead societies in which people who do not believe their dogma or are not among the chosen few, are sent to Siberia or to concentration camps. Christians believe that something rather similar are happening on an eternal scale, and they are willing to follow a God who will enforce this scheme. I think they most often don’t see the seriousness of it, because even to believers, it does seem quite unreal, supposedly happening after death and so on, but if you think about it, it is a very scary – not just a silly and unproven – world view.

By: Elliot

Elliot — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:56:18 +0000

They are? Well, as of this moment, they’re on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!

Dean Wormer – Animal House

By: robert

robert — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:36:58 +0000

I don’t know much about this stuff; might it be the case that God knows a priori who is bound for the hot house and the church thrashes about trying to discern who is on this list. Any mistakes made in these earthly divinations of the Divine Will will be as naught to those already ensconced in Elysium, in contravention of the earth-bound view of the gravtiy of their sins that prevailed at the time of their demise.

By: Cygnus

Cygnus — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:16:27 +0000

Do you think science and logic represent the pinnacle of human understanding? This question in the the link in Sean's post explains everything. No wonder Bush is trying to stop scientific research. What, with limbo gone, all of us in the siences will land up in hell proper. We ought to be thankful. For those with trouble in discerning sarcasm, yes, I'm being totally serious, just like JoAnne

By: JoAnne

JoAnne — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:11:26 +0000

Thank you Mark, I’ll take a nice glass of Zinfandel. Sean probably would prefer a Martini. Good to see you again! How long until we see Clifford??

By: Plato

Plato — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:28:05 +0000

Okay, so not in religion.

Being raised a catholic, even I have a hard time with the thinking.

Moshe being presented with the option of going to hell was always afrightening perspective as a Child, so I guess it makes some feel better that those who didn’t enter the reality here, are forgiven for haven’t been tarnished in some way? Nice of them wouldn’t you say?

What about reincarnation then? As atheist Sean, would this fall under the same heading of God?

By: Elliot

Elliot — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:26:07 +0000

let me apologize beforehand. I’m sorry I just couldn’t help myself

Every Limbo boy and girl
All around the Limbo world
Gonna do the Limbo Rock
All around the Limbo clock
Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
Jack go under Limbo stick
All around the Limbo clock
Hey, let’s do the Limbo Rock!

First you spread your Limbo feet
Then you move to Limbo beat
Limbo ankle, Limbo knee
Spread out like a Limbo tree

Here we go!

Elliot

By: Plato

Plato — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:20:22 +0000

This is a test.

Moderation, to express a thought about limbo?

By: nitpicker

nitpicker — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:15:15 +0000

Doug K, I’m not sure what you mean by “Orthodox Christians.” If you mean Eastern Orthodox, you may be right. If you mean fundamentalists then you’re really misusing the term.

When I converted, my priest said that the Church doesn’t really blame those who have never heard of Jesus.

By: Moshe

Moshe — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:04:31 +0000

As for the theological question, how can a human committee change the rules, that’s pretty easy for any trained theologist (unfortunately I happened to be one). See, hell and heaven are just vague metaphors we humans use to explain the working of god that are too mysterious for us to comprehend. Every now and then those explanations may need changing (e.g when people stop being terrified at the old metaphors), but the rules are unchangable. Pretty slick, eh?

By: janet

janet — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:58:42 +0000

Remember, Dante was just freelancing when he came up with the whole circles of hell idea — it’s not Catholic doctrine. Just be grateful you’re not a Guelf. Or is it a Ghibbilene?

By: Maynard Handley

Maynard Handley — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:43:08 +0000

”
How about those actively persuading others that blowing themselves with maximum damage to the surroundings is a sure path to heaven?
”

While we’re slagging religions, how about those actively persuading others that contraception is a sure path to hell? Yes, catholicism and US evangelicals, I’m talking about you, though as far as I can this sort of lunacy is also common in the muslim world and even among the nuttier fringes of judaism.

IMHO overpopulation and the resultant consequences have already been and will in the future be a source of way more human misery than suicide bombers.

Good to hear, JoAnne, that you view this whole issue for the farce that it is, but clearly, IMHO, you offer them far too much respect in how you phrased the article.