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	<title>Comments on: Another suburban legend shattered</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8201</link>
		<dc:creator>Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8201</guid>
		<description>&quot;The cosmological constant is not &quot;predicted&quot; to be Planck scale, simply because, in a QFT context, it is not predicted at all. It is a renormalized coupling and can have any value whatsoever.&quot;

If you look at the Lunsford unification of GR and EM, it disproves the cosmological constant.  If you look at the mechanism of gravitation by which the outward force of the big bang causes an equal inward force which produces the compression of masses (GR contraction term) and gravity (Feynman-Lesage shielding geometry for the gauge boson radiation push), you see the result predicts no cosmological constant (like Lunsford), and a true density around us which is lower than the &#039;critical density&#039; by the factor (e^3)/2 = 10.04.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The cosmological constant is not &#8220;predicted&#8221; to be Planck scale, simply because, in a QFT context, it is not predicted at all. It is a renormalized coupling and can have any value whatsoever.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you look at the Lunsford unification of GR and EM, it disproves the cosmological constant.  If you look at the mechanism of gravitation by which the outward force of the big bang causes an equal inward force which produces the compression of masses (GR contraction term) and gravity (Feynman-Lesage shielding geometry for the gauge boson radiation push), you see the result predicts no cosmological constant (like Lunsford), and a true density around us which is lower than the &#8216;critical density&#8217; by the factor (e^3)/2 = 10.04.</p>
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		<title>By: Ars Mathematica &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Humble Bumblebee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8200</link>
		<dc:creator>Ars Mathematica &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Humble Bumblebee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 06:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8200</guid>
		<description>[...] I see, via Cosmic Variance that scientists have finally found out how they manage the trick. (Interestingly, someone in the comments suggests that the original research showed not that bumblebees couldn&#8217;t fly, but that they couldn&#8217;t glide, which in fact they can&#8217;t.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I see, via Cosmic Variance that scientists have finally found out how they manage the trick. (Interestingly, someone in the comments suggests that the original research showed not that bumblebees couldn&#8217;t fly, but that they couldn&#8217;t glide, which in fact they can&#8217;t.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8199</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8199</guid>
		<description>Interesting Ed,

Gliding would have had me better understanding the easiest rote in a Langrangian sense about &quot;satellites as bees,&quot; once the easiet path is known. So maybe gliding, in that sense?:)

But more then that, &lt;a href=&quot;http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2005/12/bumblebee-wing-rotations-and-dancing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;developing such features to the dynamical nature of such rotations&lt;/a&gt;( the second part of my posting ) in that cosmological sense? As a sphere?

Are there no isomorphic relation to this(circle valuations), in a cosmological sense, at the quantum level? Is this not the problem with assumptions about the background versus the non background?

The assumption is that &quot;energy&quot; had to always exist, and the landscape, seen from that perspective, as we develope that gravitational sense?

Sorry, it ain&#039;t easy, and sorry for any mistakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting Ed,</p>
<p>Gliding would have had me better understanding the easiest rote in a Langrangian sense about &#8220;satellites as bees,&#8221; once the easiet path is known. So maybe gliding, in that sense?:)</p>
<p>But more then that, <a href="http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2005/12/bumblebee-wing-rotations-and-dancing.html" rel="nofollow">developing such features to the dynamical nature of such rotations</a>( the second part of my posting ) in that cosmological sense? As a sphere?</p>
<p>Are there no isomorphic relation to this(circle valuations), in a cosmological sense, at the quantum level? Is this not the problem with assumptions about the background versus the non background?</p>
<p>The assumption is that &#8220;energy&#8221; had to always exist, and the landscape, seen from that perspective, as we develope that gravitational sense?</p>
<p>Sorry, it ain&#8217;t easy, and sorry for any mistakes.</p>
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		<title>By: ed hessler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8198</link>
		<dc:creator>ed hessler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8198</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d almost have welcomed hearing this claim mentioned after the more famous or widely cited Behe claim on the bacterial flagellum about which I&#039;ve heard a lot this past month. If I recall correctly Drosophila (fruit flies) also have solved flight in a different fashion as well.

If you want to read a great book on bumblebees, Bernd Heinrich&#039;s &quot;Bumblebee Economics&quot; is a classic.  Bumblebees live at the edge from an energy point of view and this book is about their bioenergetics. It has recently been re-released with a new introduction by the author about which see here ( ).

Thanks for the post and also the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d almost have welcomed hearing this claim mentioned after the more famous or widely cited Behe claim on the bacterial flagellum about which I&#8217;ve heard a lot this past month. If I recall correctly Drosophila (fruit flies) also have solved flight in a different fashion as well.</p>
<p>If you want to read a great book on bumblebees, Bernd Heinrich&#8217;s &#8220;Bumblebee Economics&#8221; is a classic.  Bumblebees live at the edge from an energy point of view and this book is about their bioenergetics. It has recently been re-released with a new introduction by the author about which see here ( ).</p>
<p>Thanks for the post and also the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Muldrew</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8197</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Muldrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8197</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure that the actual claim made in the 30&#039;s was that bees were unable to  glide (using assumptions that were relevant to fixed wing aircraft). This claim is much less controversial than the oft stated &quot;scientists proved that bees can&#039;t fly&quot; chestnut (not least because it&#039;s correct -- bees can&#039;t glide).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that the actual claim made in the 30&#8217;s was that bees were unable to  glide (using assumptions that were relevant to fixed wing aircraft). This claim is much less controversial than the oft stated &#8220;scientists proved that bees can&#8217;t fly&#8221; chestnut (not least because it&#8217;s correct &#8212; bees can&#8217;t glide).</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8196</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8196</guid>
		<description>Fair enough.  What I actually say in talks is that it is a &quot;disagreement between theoretical expectation and observation.&quot;  But of course you can tune it, and in a sense that&#039;s what happens in the landscape.

Then again, &quot;bees can&#039;t fly&quot; was never really a prediction either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.  What I actually say in talks is that it is a &#8220;disagreement between theoretical expectation and observation.&#8221;  But of course you can tune it, and in a sense that&#8217;s what happens in the landscape.</p>
<p>Then again, &#8220;bees can&#8217;t fly&#8221; was never really a prediction either.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Distler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8195</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Distler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8195</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Actually, I&#039;m not sure that it&#039;s more obvious that bees can fly than that the cosmological constant is not at the Planck scale. That prediction is still worse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sorry. This bugs me. The cosmological constant is not &quot;predicted&quot; to be Planck scale, simply because, in a QFT context, it is not predicted &lt;em&gt;at all&lt;/em&gt;. It is a renormalized coupling and can have &lt;em&gt;any value whatsoever&lt;/em&gt;.

What &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; true is that, in order to achieve the observed value at low energies, the bare value (at the cutoff scale, which we might take to be the Planck scale) must be fine-tuned to enormous accuracy.

But that&#039;s not the same thing &lt;em&gt;at all&lt;/em&gt; as saying that the value of the cosmological constant is predicted, and that the prediction comes out wrong.

I know the professionals, like Sean, understand this, and it&#039;s OK to use the shorthand locution when talking among ourselves. But, when talking to the general public, as you attempt to do here, you should be more careful to distinguish what is, and is not &quot;predicted&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Actually, I&#8217;m not sure that it&#8217;s more obvious that bees can fly than that the cosmological constant is not at the Planck scale. That prediction is still worse.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry. This bugs me. The cosmological constant is not &#8220;predicted&#8221; to be Planck scale, simply because, in a QFT context, it is not predicted <em>at all</em>. It is a renormalized coupling and can have <em>any value whatsoever</em>.</p>
<p>What <em>is</em> true is that, in order to achieve the observed value at low energies, the bare value (at the cutoff scale, which we might take to be the Planck scale) must be fine-tuned to enormous accuracy.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not the same thing <em>at all</em> as saying that the value of the cosmological constant is predicted, and that the prediction comes out wrong.</p>
<p>I know the professionals, like Sean, understand this, and it&#8217;s OK to use the shorthand locution when talking among ourselves. But, when talking to the general public, as you attempt to do here, you should be more careful to distinguish what is, and is not &#8220;predicted&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8194</link>
		<dc:creator>Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8194</guid>
		<description>Sean, please say &quot;my science&quot; or better &quot;my personal pet theory that is ignorant of unorthodox work that can&#039;t get into arXiv.org because the peers are too prejudiced to even read it&quot;.  Don&#039;t drag down science just because orthodoxy suppresses dissenters.  Science is not about personal pet theories of people controlling arXiv.org and other journals, it is not dictatorial consensus which ignores contrary facts, like political leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, please say &#8220;my science&#8221; or better &#8220;my personal pet theory that is ignorant of unorthodox work that can&#8217;t get into arXiv.org because the peers are too prejudiced to even read it&#8221;.  Don&#8217;t drag down science just because orthodoxy suppresses dissenters.  Science is not about personal pet theories of people controlling arXiv.org and other journals, it is not dictatorial consensus which ignores contrary facts, like political leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8193</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8193</guid>
		<description>Actually, I&#039;m not sure that it&#039;s more obvious that bees can fly than that the cosmological constant is not at the Planck scale.  That prediction is still worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I&#8217;m not sure that it&#8217;s more obvious that bees can fly than that the cosmological constant is not at the Planck scale.  That prediction is still worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/comment-page-1/#comment-8192</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/12/05/another-suburban-legend-shattered/#comment-8192</guid>
		<description>I mean I have to apologize for reducng this to a string/M theory issue, but really Sean, you started it. :)

&lt;a href=&quot;http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2005/12/bumblebee-wing-rotations-and-dancing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt; So I have in essence percieved the &quot;Bee HIve Mentality of string theory&quot; as a underlying causation, that if held too, becomes, &quot;&lt;b&gt;how little we really know.&lt;/b&gt;&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/a&gt; :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean I have to apologize for reducng this to a string/M theory issue, but really Sean, you started it. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2005/12/bumblebee-wing-rotations-and-dancing.html" rel="nofollow"><br />
<blockquote> So I have in essence percieved the &#8220;Bee HIve Mentality of string theory&#8221; as a underlying causation, that if held too, becomes, &#8220;<b>how little we really know.</b>&#8220;</p></blockquote>
<p></a> <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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