Comments on: Hostility to atheists

By: I’m Running Anyway | Cosmic Variance

I’m Running Anyway | Cosmic Variance — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:00:32 +0000

[...] Nothing new, of course. [...]

By: Thank You, Richard Dawkins | Cosmic Variance

Thank You, Richard Dawkins | Cosmic Variance — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:53:28 +0000

[...] This is a huge step forward. Keep in mind, the typical American thinks of atheists as fundamentally untrustworthy people. A major network like CNN will think nothing of hosting a roundtable discussion on atheism and not asking any atheists to participate. But, unlike a short while ago, they will eventually be shamed into admitting that was a mistake, and make up for it by inviting some atheists to defend their ideas. Baby steps. Professional news anchors may still seem a little befuddled at the notion that a clean, articulate person may not believe in God. But at least that notion is getting a decent public hearing. Once people actually hear what atheists have to say, perhaps they will get the idea that one need not be an amoral baby-killer just because one doesn’t believe in God. [...]

By: Levi

Levi — Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:36:14 +0000

“It’s not the best article. It’s just what I came up with after a 1-minute Google search.”

I suspected as much.

By: Belizean

Belizean — Sun, 18 Dec 2005 05:08:57 +0000

Anonymous,

It’s not the best article. It’s just what I came up with after a 1-minute Google search. It’s a complicated issue. Many variables are involved.

The essential point is this. Suppose we have two identical groups. One goup is repeatedly subjected to aversion therapy against behavior X. The other group isn’t. It would be very strange if both groups had exactly the same propensity to engage in behavior X.

Religion is just a type of aversion therapy intended to reduces one propensity to engage in uncivil behavior.

You are correct that it need not involve a belief in God. Buddhist are atheists, for example. But we really don’t know how to reliably suppress uncivil behavior in large masses without religion — godless or not.

Most atheists don’t understand this.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:19 +0000

Belizean,

Well, I take back my snotty remark. But I’m disappointed by the article, which relates “religiosity” to “delinquincy” with certain definitions. I’m not surprised if the activities associated with religiosity (prayer, Bible studies, etc.) correlate negatively with a person’s penchant for crime. What I question is how belief in God (i.e. not being an atheist) directly affects whether a person commits crime. Even the authors admit that the positive effects of “religiosity” are really linked to a “loosely defined concept of hope combined with a positive self concept and happiness.” Granted, for the average person, this is probably easier to achieve through religion, but it is by no means necessary.

By: Arun

Arun — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:30:36 +0000

Nala,

Actually, when the Romans conquered a city, they would keep the city’s gods and not displace them. The main concession that the Romans wanted was recognition of their own gods; and in a polytheist milieu this was rarely a problem. The problem arose only with the exclusive god of the Jews and the Christians – followers of Yahweh don’t recognize any other gods.

The something-BC advice by master statescraftman Kautilya to the Hindu who would be king was “He shall adopt the way of life, dress, language and customs of the people [of the acquired territory], show the same devotion to the gods of the territory [as to his own gods] and participate in the people’s festivals and amusements..”

-Arun

By: Count Iblis

Count Iblis — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:05:19 +0000

This is readily explained by the Anthropic Principle. See here.

By: Levi

Levi — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:26:06 +0000

The study linked to in comment #57 is interesting. The (very short) note claims to be a review of the literature of the relationship between religiosity and delinquency. The lead author is Calvin O. Butts III, who turns out to be the Pastor of the Abbysinian Baptist Church of New York. The few papers cited have authors such as David Larson, who was on the Templeton Foundation advisory board when his papers were published, and Michael McCollough who works at the National Institute for Healthcare Research, which is primarily funded by the Templeton Foundation.

I’m truly shocked that they claim to have found a (small) negative correlation between religiosity and delinquency (after what was evidently quite a bit of tweaking of the definition of “religiosity”).

By: Nala

Nala — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:14:59 +0000

over the centuries believers in christianity, islam, judaism, the roman gods etc have oppressed just as many people and kill them as the those dirty “Commies”.

Remember the Crusades, the War on Terror, the inquisistion, all were/are ran by people with purticular mindsets trying to control how other people think and “encourage” them to think along there line.

i like christians on the whole, alot of them a really nice people. what i don’t get is how some of them (sorta like what i’m doing now) tell people if u don’t think in a certain way u will go to hell because u have to believe in certains tenets of a religion, that in christianity for example there is this ting saying thou shalt Not Kill. didn’t stop the popes, the followers of Martin Luther etc. what i’m trying to say is, christians have the same capacity for evil as commies, its just how u define good and evil.
one last thing, earlier this year the secutary of the christian heritage party in NZ wrote and internal memo that was leaked to the media concerning brian capill. capill was a staunch believer in christian values for over 10 years until it came oput he had been sexuall abusing young girls. what this secutary said was what capill did was not rape until the biblical definition baceuase ther was no penetration. just because something is writen in the bible does not make it right. just because something is adhered to by atheists doesn’t mean its inherently always right and always wrong. its how people go about there lives (rosemary mcloud wrote some interesting stuff how atheists tend to be the moral, upstanding people she knows, but she is just slightly odd).

apoligies if this as been a bit tooo incoherent.

By: Belizean

Belizean — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 03:50:34 +0000

Belizean, this sounds like a great hypothesis... now refer me to the actual study that was done. I won't hold my breath...

Religion and its Effect on Crime and Deliquency", C.O. Butts III, et al, Med Sci Monit, 2003; 9(8): SR79-82