Comments on: The Curse Of The Scooter http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:06:21 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: The Search for Coffee | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9988 The Search for Coffee | Cosmic Variance Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:09:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9988 [...] Well here's the more unexpected part of the story. I was coming back to the hotel several nights later via one of the places I would go for beef noodles.... and I was mulling over the above events, since I was approaching the coffee place and it had popped up in my mind. I got to wondering who the English-speaking woman was, how come she knew English so well, whether it meant she was connected to the university, and whether or not I should have asked the coffee quetion or not, even in principle. Anyway, I moved over in the narrow pathway allowed by all the parked scooters on the sidewalk since I could hear running footsteps coming up behind me and I wanted to let the pedestrian pass. But they did not pass. There was a tap on my back and a voice spoke in English, saying excuse me. I turned and it was her! She asked if we'd met at the coffee shop and I said yes (of course). Turned out that she was hoping we'd meet again so that she could find out if the coffee was ok and whether I knew about the other coffee place further down the road past the bridge. (I did in fact know about it and had been planning to try it later...) She’d wanted to tell me that in fact that other place was way better, with better coffee and actual sitting space, and even a food menu…. but she did not know how to at the time, given the circumstances. [...] [...] Well here’s the more unexpected part of the story. I was coming back to the hotel several nights later via one of the places I would go for beef noodles…. and I was mulling over the above events, since I was approaching the coffee place and it had popped up in my mind. I got to wondering who the English-speaking woman was, how come she knew English so well, whether it meant she was connected to the university, and whether or not I should have asked the coffee quetion or not, even in principle. Anyway, I moved over in the narrow pathway allowed by all the parked scooters on the sidewalk since I could hear running footsteps coming up behind me and I wanted to let the pedestrian pass. But they did not pass. There was a tap on my back and a voice spoke in English, saying excuse me. I turned and it was her! She asked if we’d met at the coffee shop and I said yes (of course). Turned out that she was hoping we’d meet again so that she could find out if the coffee was ok and whether I knew about the other coffee place further down the road past the bridge. (I did in fact know about it and had been planning to try it later…) She’d wanted to tell me that in fact that other place was way better, with better coffee and actual sitting space, and even a food menu…. but she did not know how to at the time, given the circumstances. [...]

]]> By: Wonderful Food on Walkabout | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9987 Wonderful Food on Walkabout | Cosmic Variance Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:50:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9987 [...] Just in case you’re perching there waiting to see if I’m going to commit some new crime of cultural insensitivity (see the comment stream of my post on traffic), I’d like to point out that in taking my photographs I was very careful to (1) not disturb anyone by standing in their way, using flash, or disrupting their business in any way (2) linger only a very short time to snap (I prepare the shot beforehand, camera comes out and snaps and goes back in before anyone notices (3) ask permission -often after buying some food- in the cases where I cannot avoid being spotted. So hopefully I’ve nipped those complaints in the bud. [...] [...] Just in case you’re perching there waiting to see if I’m going to commit some new crime of cultural insensitivity (see the comment stream of my post on traffic), I’d like to point out that in taking my photographs I was very careful to (1) not disturb anyone by standing in their way, using flash, or disrupting their business in any way (2) linger only a very short time to snap (I prepare the shot beforehand, camera comes out and snaps and goes back in before anyone notices (3) ask permission -often after buying some food- in the cases where I cannot avoid being spotted. So hopefully I’ve nipped those complaints in the bud. [...]

]]> By: Clifford http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9986 Clifford Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:05:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9986 David, Thanks.... never in my post did I make the claim that it was suppsoed to be an exhaustive analysis of the situation.... I simply was giving some impressions of how things currently appear in order to illustrate how they are in fact similar to situations we have in our cities and how things can be changed and are being changed with further investment in public transport. Something we can learn from. One last remark (before I get accused of being presumptuous in using the word "changed"): If the locals did not think that there was a problem with at least some aspects of the traffic, how come their government spent so much (and are spending so much) on a new subway system, and how come so many people are using it, and how come everyone I talked to says that the subway has improved things in Taipei? Last last remark: These are not Taiwanese cultural things I am commenting on -and yes, being negative about- they are universal global problems brought on by our global technology. As such, it is interesting and instructive to see its effects all over the world. I would not make critical remarks about things that are truly aspects of local culture. Best, -cvj David,

Thanks…. never in my post did I make the claim that it was suppsoed to be an exhaustive analysis of the situation…. I simply was giving some impressions of how things currently appear in order to illustrate how they are in fact similar to situations we have in our cities and how things can be changed and are being changed with further investment in public transport. Something we can learn from. One last remark (before I get accused of being presumptuous in using the word “changed”): If the locals did not think that there was a problem with at least some aspects of the traffic, how come their government spent so much (and are spending so much) on a new subway system, and how come so many people are using it, and how come everyone I talked to says that the subway has improved things in Taipei?

Last last remark: These are not Taiwanese cultural things I am commenting on -and yes, being negative about- they are universal global problems brought on by our global technology. As such, it is interesting and instructive to see its effects all over the world. I would not make critical remarks about things that are truly aspects of local culture.

Best,

-cvj

]]> By: David http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9953 David Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:47:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9953 Hi Clifford, Re. #31: Thanks. > "cool" here is used to mean "the way to go" , or "the > acceptable alternative".... a common usuage that is > different from the specific "fashion accessory" usage > you have in mind (although I admit that there was > intended to be some component of the latter). Note > also my mentioning of the use of the scooter as the > cheap alternative to a car with all of the benefits of > a car. So I am confused as to why you say this is not > mentioned in the post..... Actually my interpretation of what you meant by "cool" was pretty much as you have described it here. But (to me at any rate) it gives the impression that people have made a choice from a variety of options. My point is that for many people the scooter is their *only* practical transportation option at present (as far as I'm aware). For understanding the scooter situation I think it's important to mention the lack of alternatives for many people at present, and this is what I had in mind as the "missing part" of your post. > Further (and this is not entirely to your comment, but > to several others), let's please get away from > interpreting everything I am saying as loaded with > value judgement. Please. Nothing of what I wrote was intended to imply this. I'm sorry if you got this impression but it was really not my intention. All I wanted to do was point out that (imo at least) there is more to the scooter situation than what you wrote in you post. There's no accusation of value judgements. I'm glad we seem to be in agreement about the other stuff. Looking forward to your posts on the positive aspects of Taiwan, where I'm sure we'll have lots to agree on. Cheers, David Hi Clifford,

Re. #31: Thanks.

> “cool” here is used to mean “the way to go” , or “the
> acceptable alternative”…. a common usuage that is
> different from the specific “fashion accessory” usage
> you have in mind (although I admit that there was
> intended to be some component of the latter). Note
> also my mentioning of the use of the scooter as the
> cheap alternative to a car with all of the benefits of
> a car. So I am confused as to why you say this is not
> mentioned in the post…..

Actually my interpretation of what you meant by “cool” was pretty much as you have described it here. But (to me at any rate) it gives the impression that people have made a choice from a variety of options. My point is that for many people the scooter is their *only* practical transportation option at present (as far as I’m aware). For understanding the scooter situation I think it’s important to mention the lack of alternatives for many people at present, and this is what I had in mind as the “missing part” of your post.

> Further (and this is not entirely to your comment, but
> to several others), let’s please get away from
> interpreting everything I am saying as loaded with
> value judgement.

Please. Nothing of what I wrote was intended to imply this. I’m sorry if you got this impression but it was really not my intention. All I wanted to do was point out that (imo at least) there is more to the scooter situation than what you wrote in you post. There’s no accusation of value judgements.

I’m glad we seem to be in agreement about the other stuff. Looking forward to your posts on the positive aspects of Taiwan, where I’m sure we’ll have lots to agree on.

Cheers,
David

]]> By: Clifford http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9985 Clifford Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:13:23 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9985 Steve, thanks! I also think it is a wonderful city and a wonderful people. I'll be doing several posts on food and other things I loved over the coming period). Also, I'm glad that you felt free to observe and comment on several aspects of the traffic, etc, over there without fear of being accused of being insensitive, patronising, or elitist. One of the reasons I think the place is wonderful is that mix of serndipity, improvisation, modern, ancient, fast and frantic, slow and thoughtful.... all wonderfully mixed together. Oh... if you loved the food, take some time out next trip and go to visit Tainan. I am told that it is even better than Taipei..... I sepnt 48 hours there eating..... more later! Cheers, -cvj Steve, thanks! I also think it is a wonderful city and a wonderful people. I’ll be doing several posts on food and other things I loved over the coming period). Also, I’m glad that you felt free to observe and comment on several aspects of the traffic, etc, over there without fear of being accused of being insensitive, patronising, or elitist. One of the reasons I think the place is wonderful is that mix of serndipity, improvisation, modern, ancient, fast and frantic, slow and thoughtful…. all wonderfully mixed together.

Oh… if you loved the food, take some time out next trip and go to visit Tainan. I am told that it is even better than Taipei….. I sepnt 48 hours there eating….. more later!

Cheers,

-cvj

]]> By: Steve http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9984 Steve Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:01:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9984 Some personal Taipei observations and experiences - Scooters are the first thing one notices after exiting the highways (No two wheel vehicles allowed, with minor exceptions, I am told). Everyone I met (all engineers) who owned a scooter, one day wanted a car. At the moment, a car purchase was beyond their budget. Car and scooter drivers are indeed excellent in their driving skills, generally speaking. I drive a high performance German car and motorcycle. I have been known to fly airplanes. Knowing ones personal limitations and the limitations of the vehicle is the prime requisite for driving. Expect the unexpected. In Taipei all drivers appeared to be focused on their driving vs. yelling at the kids in the back seats, gulping lattes, applying makeup, reading bibles (seen at times driving between vehicles on my motorcycle in CA) etc. [Sorry for the slight rant.] Have been in cars that have swirved on to shoulders on the highway and then much later returned to the designated road. My questions on the legaiity of this manuever were politely waved off. I questioned scooters going down a one way street against oncoming cars and again was politely told not to worry. Seems to work for them. Like Manhatten in NYC, I found it best as a pedestrian to cross streets in large groups of people or against the red light. In this case, you know where you stand, so to speak. (Be very afraid of taxis in Manhatten.) While accustomed to sidewalks in disrepair in some American large cities, I had a hard time adapting to this in Taipei, while also looking out for scooters driving on the sidewalks. Locals did not have this problem. At two airlines I visited for business, they were amazed I did not take a nap during lunch time. Lights are turned out. Light soothing music was played on the PA system. Most engineers take a nap at their desk. The food is fantastic. This even includes food purchased for me from street market vendors. Ok, my local friends did try to push my limits on what I would eat. I did pass on one item, but only one after being given a description. Great people and a wonderful city. May all the Chinese readers have a healthy and prosperous Chinese New Year. Some personal Taipei observations and experiences -

Scooters are the first thing one notices after exiting the highways (No two wheel vehicles allowed, with minor exceptions, I am told).

Everyone I met (all engineers) who owned a scooter, one day wanted a car. At the moment, a car purchase was beyond their budget.

Car and scooter drivers are indeed excellent in their driving skills, generally speaking. I drive a high performance German car and motorcycle. I have been known to fly airplanes. Knowing ones personal limitations and the limitations of the vehicle is the prime requisite for driving. Expect the unexpected. In Taipei all drivers appeared to be focused on their driving vs. yelling at the kids in the back seats, gulping lattes, applying makeup, reading bibles (seen at times driving between vehicles on my motorcycle in CA) etc. [Sorry for the slight rant.]

Have been in cars that have swirved on to shoulders on the highway and then much later returned to the designated road. My questions on the legaiity of this manuever were politely waved off.

I questioned scooters going down a one way street against oncoming cars and again was politely told not to worry. Seems to work for them.

Like Manhatten in NYC, I found it best as a pedestrian to cross streets in large groups of people or against the red light. In this case, you know where you stand, so to speak. (Be very afraid of taxis in Manhatten.)

While accustomed to sidewalks in disrepair in some American large cities, I had a hard time adapting to this in Taipei, while also looking out for scooters driving on the sidewalks. Locals did not have this problem.

At two airlines I visited for business, they were amazed I did not take a nap during lunch time. Lights are turned out. Light soothing music was played on the PA system. Most engineers take a nap at their desk.

The food is fantastic. This even includes food purchased for me from street market vendors. Ok, my local friends did try to push my limits on what I would eat. I did pass on one item, but only one after being given a description.

Great people and a wonderful city.

May all the Chinese readers have a healthy and prosperous Chinese New Year.

]]> By: Amara http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9983 Amara Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:08:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9983 The general disorganization in Rome (and continuing south) is no stereotype, we (everyone who lives here) lose a great deal of time in daily life due to that. If a person cannot accept it, then they shouldn't live here (it's that basic). And regarding Berlusconi, I feel he is fair game since his party's immigration policies have made a mess out of my legal status and I pay proportionally more Italian taxes than most people I know, but there is a general sensitivity in the country about him too. A kind of embarrassment that such a clown was legally elected. I think outsiders should be aware about that too. The general disorganization in Rome (and continuing south) is no stereotype, we (everyone who lives here) lose a great deal of time in daily life due to that. If a person cannot accept it, then they shouldn’t live here (it’s that basic). And regarding Berlusconi, I feel he is fair game since his party’s immigration policies have made a mess out of my legal status and I pay proportionally more Italian taxes than most people I know, but there is a general sensitivity in the country about him too. A kind of embarrassment that such a clown was legally elected. I think outsiders should be aware about that too.

]]> By: Dissident http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9982 Dissident Sun, 15 Jan 2006 12:18:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9982 Oh dear, you really pushed the wrong button with that one (combining implied criticism of Rome with the "disorganized/chaotic Italian" stereotype). Being from Milano, Berlusconi is a pretty safe target around your new hunting grounds, but watch out should the city's prodigal son Rutelli land in a government role after the next elections! Oh dear, you really pushed the wrong button with that one (combining implied criticism of Rome with the “disorganized/chaotic Italian” stereotype). Being from Milano, Berlusconi is a pretty safe target around your new hunting grounds, but watch out should the city’s prodigal son Rutelli land in a government role after the next elections!

]]> By: Amara http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9981 Amara Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:28:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9981 Dissident, No not on that topic, but yes, glacial, on another topic (*), it was not an easy mistake for me to make, either, since I always take extra care to the cultures where I live and visit, living in Europe now eight years as a foreigner. Romans are much more sensitive about their city than other Italians towards their towns, I learned. At least I've lived here long enough and paid enough taxes to have the "right" (in the local's view of me) to state hard observations of the present government, but unfortunately, because I am not a naturalized citizen (must live here ten years), I cannot state my opinion politically by voting. For me, that is a big pain. (*) my comment was my mild surprise at the good organization of the city resources when the pope died. Dissident, No not on that topic, but yes, glacial, on another topic (*), it was not an easy mistake for me to make, either, since I always take extra care to the cultures where I live and visit, living in Europe now eight years as a foreigner. Romans are much more sensitive about their city than other Italians towards their towns, I learned. At least I’ve lived here long enough and paid enough taxes to have the “right” (in the local’s view of me) to state hard observations of the present government, but unfortunately, because I am not a naturalized citizen (must live here ten years), I cannot state my opinion politically by voting. For me, that is a big pain.

(*) my comment was my mild surprise at the good organization of the city resources when the pope died.

]]> By: Dissident http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-9980 Dissident Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:46:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/11/the-curse-of-the-scooter/#comment-9980 Amara, have you perchance had a bad experience or two with Romans turning glacial after you said something negative about that "Caput Mundi" of theirs? They tend to be downright pathological about it... but fortunately most people around the world aren't stuck in their second millennium of imperial loss denial. Amara, have you perchance had a bad experience or two with Romans turning glacial after you said something negative about that “Caput Mundi” of theirs? They tend to be downright pathological about it… but fortunately most people around the world aren’t stuck in their second millennium of imperial loss denial.

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