Comments on: You would constantly be depressed and tired http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:54:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mad about Scientists « An American Physics Student in England http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10716 Mad about Scientists « An American Physics Student in England Tue, 03 Oct 2006 23:21:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10716 [...] The popular public image of the scientist is a topic of understated importance in promoting scientific endeavors to funding agencies, encouraging young people to consider scientific careers, and to broaden the educational horizon of the lay person. There are many well-identified, detrimental stereotypes of scientists that the scientific community has made an effort to address. There are also a few well-identified, non-detrimental stereotypes that a few scientists seem to find amusing to hold on to… such as the image of a theoretical physicist wearing a labcoat. However, the stereotypes presented by ‘mad scientist’ figures in popular media are insidious and tend not to be addressed. Perhaps scientists think that comic book and television villains named Dr. Doom or Professor Chaos (ok, that one is a little whimsical) are so far removed from actual scientists that nobody could possibly get the subliminal hint that scientists are dangerous and not to be trusted? Well, kids spend far more time watching TV and reading comic books than visiting research labs. [...] [...] The popular public image of the scientist is a topic of understated importance in promoting scientific endeavors to funding agencies, encouraging young people to consider scientific careers, and to broaden the educational horizon of the lay person. There are many well-identified, detrimental stereotypes of scientists that the scientific community has made an effort to address. There are also a few well-identified, non-detrimental stereotypes that a few scientists seem to find amusing to hold on to… such as the image of a theoretical physicist wearing a labcoat. However, the stereotypes presented by ‘mad scientist’ figures in popular media are insidious and tend not to be addressed. Perhaps scientists think that comic book and television villains named Dr. Doom or Professor Chaos (ok, that one is a little whimsical) are so far removed from actual scientists that nobody could possibly get the subliminal hint that scientists are dangerous and not to be trusted? Well, kids spend far more time watching TV and reading comic books than visiting research labs. [...]

]]> By: The Scientist’s Image | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10715 The Scientist’s Image | Cosmic Variance Tue, 14 Feb 2006 06:50:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10715 [...] Much has been said about the image that the public has about scientists - how we dress, how we work, what makes us laugh…In particular, one study concluded that children did not picture scientists as “normal young and attractive men and women.” Fermilab did their own study, asking 7th graders to draw pictures of scientists before and after visiting the laboratory - with markedly different images resulting from meeting real scientists at work. [...] [...] Much has been said about the image that the public has about scientists – how we dress, how we work, what makes us laugh…In particular, one study concluded that children did not picture scientists as “normal young and attractive men and women.” Fermilab did their own study, asking 7th graders to draw pictures of scientists before and after visiting the laboratory – with markedly different images resulting from meeting real scientists at work. [...]

]]> By: Harv http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10714 Harv Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:55:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10714 I'll also point out the value in breaking stereotypes. I was at the telescope for one run to get my thesis data and a group of tour guides in training came into the building. As it was only 1pm and I was unable to sleep, I was sitting in my PJ's watching TV. I was asked about what I was observing and such when one older guy piped up with an embarrassed look. "So are you an astronomer?" he asked sheepishly. When I nodded, he continued, "I though they were... older." I could also read in his face, "and male, and not prone to wearing blue striped flannel PJs." His face then lit up as he said, "I'm going to have to encourage my granddaughter more in her interest in science and astronomy." And this was already a guy interested in science and astronomy. I’ll also point out the value in breaking stereotypes. I was at the telescope for one run to get my thesis data and a group of tour guides in training came into the building. As it was only 1pm and I was unable to sleep, I was sitting in my PJ’s watching TV. I was asked about what I was observing and such when one older guy piped up with an embarrassed look. “So are you an astronomer?” he asked sheepishly. When I nodded, he continued, “I though they were… older.” I could also read in his face, “and male, and not prone to wearing blue striped flannel PJs.”

His face then lit up as he said, “I’m going to have to encourage my granddaughter more in her interest in science and astronomy.”

And this was already a guy interested in science and astronomy.

]]> By: Often in Error... http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10713 Often in Error... Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:32:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10713 <strong>Before and After</strong> Simply amazing and funny, as pointed by Sean Carroll, @ Cosmic Variance, from the Fermilab site :-) : ... Before and After

Simply amazing and funny, as pointed by Sean Carroll, @ Cosmic Variance, from the Fermilab site :-) : …

]]> By: science bistro / the culture of science http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10712 science bistro / the culture of science Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:52:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10712 <strong>Science ‘not for normal people’</strong> Generalization: Young people think science is exciting, but not for them. ... Science ‘not for normal people’

Generalization: Young people think science is exciting, but not for them.

…

]]> By: Clifford http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10689 Clifford Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:21:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10689 No, It is a big bone.... but since (as you say) we do not know the content of the sessions.... it makes sense to bury that juicy bone somewhere in the yard and we can knaw on it later. -cvj No, It is a big bone…. but since (as you say) we do not know the content of the sessions…. it makes sense to bury that juicy bone somewhere in the yard and we can knaw on it later.

-cvj

]]> By: Sam Gralla http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10690 Sam Gralla Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:01:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10690 Hi Clifford, I agree that it is valuable; it just seems a shame that you don't see evidence of kids being more excited about *science* in the after than the before. I don't know--if I were a kid coming back from really being shown fermilab I might draw some particles zooming at each other faster than a speeding bullet... or a giant underground room with big machines in it... rather than a normal-looking man spinning a basketball. When all the after pictures have either no reference to science or only the same references used in the before pictures (beakers, e=mc2), one gets the feeling that the kids didn't really learn anything about what actually goes on at fermilab. It would be nice if the program would do both, eh? If you want to get more kids in to science you have to convince them not only that they don't have to be abnormal but also that scientists do really cool things (besides get to "do whatever they want and still get paid"--see Katie) But this is a silly thing to argue about, since neither of us knows just what the program was like, or how they asked them to draw these pictures. And my bone to pick is a small one anyway. -Sam Hi Clifford,

I agree that it is valuable; it just seems a shame that you don’t see evidence of kids being more excited about *science* in the after than the before. I don’t know–if I were a kid coming back from really being shown fermilab I might draw some particles zooming at each other faster than a speeding bullet… or a giant underground room with big machines in it… rather than a normal-looking man spinning a basketball. When all the after pictures have either no reference to science or only the same references used in the before pictures (beakers, e=mc2), one gets the feeling that the kids didn’t really learn anything about what actually goes on at fermilab. It would be nice if the program would do both, eh?

If you want to get more kids in to science you have to convince them not only that they don’t have to be abnormal but also that scientists do really cool things (besides get to “do whatever they want and still get paid”–see Katie)

But this is a silly thing to argue about, since neither of us knows just what the program was like, or how they asked them to draw these pictures. And my bone to pick is a small one anyway.

-Sam

]]> By: Amara http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10691 Amara Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:58:28 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10691 Well, with images like <a href="http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stardust/multimedia/jsc2006e01005.html" rel="nofollow"> this</a> for the media, it's no wonder that <a href="http://www.fiorella.com/fiorproducts.htm" rel="nofollow">Fiorella Terenzi</a> and <a href="http://www.eastbayastro.org/2000/1200/r1200.htm" rel="nofollow">Lynda Williams</a> tried to break out of the goofy stereotypes and portray a different perspective about scientists. Diversity is good.... Well, with images like this for the media, it’s no wonder that Fiorella Terenzi and Lynda Williams tried to break out of the goofy stereotypes and portray a different perspective about scientists. Diversity is good….

]]> By: Dumb Biologist http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10692 Dumb Biologist Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:19:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10692 Psst: Don't tell the kids when they grow up they'll practically have to memorize the contents of manuals provided by these friendly folks... http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/laboratories/index.html http://www.nrc.gov/materials/medical.html http://www.fda.gov/oc/enforcement.html ...just to name a few. Then tell them deviation from GLP standards, most especially during a random audit from any of the sundry regulatory bodies out to get you, could lead to anything from minor sanctions to immediate termination, loss of all funding, even prosecution! Woo-hoo! Get used to lots of decidedly unsexy latex, uncomfortable cotton smocks, and big goofy goggles kids! Psst: Don’t tell the kids when they grow up they’ll practically have to memorize the contents of manuals provided by these friendly folks…

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/laboratories/index.html

http://www.nrc.gov/materials/medical.html

http://www.fda.gov/oc/enforcement.html

…just to name a few. Then tell them deviation from GLP standards, most especially during a random audit from any of the sundry regulatory bodies out to get you, could lead to anything from minor sanctions to immediate termination, loss of all funding, even prosecution! Woo-hoo! Get used to lots of decidedly unsexy latex, uncomfortable cotton smocks, and big goofy goggles kids!

]]> By: amanda http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10711 amanda Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:51:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10711 Let me get this straight. Scientists are these people who depend for a huge chunk on their income on a system of grants which is such that the money gets cut off the moment there is a hiatus in creative output. And this creative output has to be maintained until retirement. And then somebody is surprised when the kids think that scientists are permanently tired and depressed? What do scientists smoke that would *prevent* them from being permanently tired and depressed? Aren't the kids just acknowledging reality? Let me get this straight. Scientists are these people who depend for a huge chunk on their income on a system of grants which is such that the money gets cut off the moment there is a hiatus in creative output. And this creative output has to be maintained until retirement.

And then somebody is surprised when the kids think that scientists are permanently tired and depressed? What do scientists smoke that would *prevent* them from being permanently tired and depressed? Aren’t the kids just acknowledging reality?

]]> By: Babboon http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10710 Babboon Sun, 22 Jan 2006 07:59:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10710 It might also be valuable to teach what science actually *is*. I remember that when I was a little kid, the "scientific method" was a list of steps that I had to re-memorize at the beginning of each school year. I paid attention those select days of the year in which movies were presented. In any case, Hollywood is about as good at describing the scientific method as it is at describing the scientists themselves. It might also be valuable to teach what science actually *is*. I remember that when I was a little kid, the “scientific method” was a list of steps that I had to re-memorize at the beginning of each school year. I paid attention those select days of the year in which movies were presented. In any case, Hollywood is about as good at describing the scientific method as it is at describing the scientists themselves.

]]> By: Clifford http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10709 Clifford Sun, 22 Jan 2006 07:12:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10709 Sam Gralla, As I've pointed out several times on this blog, helping kids realize that scientists are regular people is one of the most important steps in teaching science... one so often overlooked! Once a kid makes the connection that if scientist do science and if they are regular people, then other regular people (such as the kid) can do science too. Suddenly, you've lost a whole layer of barriers to them being being open to being taught, and to them wanting to find out more on their own. So I urge you to not underestimate how valuable this is. Cheers, -cvj Sam Gralla,

As I’ve pointed out several times on this blog, helping kids realize that scientists are regular people is one of the most important steps in teaching science… one so often overlooked! Once a kid makes the connection that if scientist do science and if they are regular people, then other regular people (such as the kid) can do science too. Suddenly, you’ve lost a whole layer of barriers to them being being open to being taught, and to them wanting to find out more on their own.

So I urge you to not underestimate how valuable this is.

Cheers,

-cvj

]]> By: Sam Gralla http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10708 Sam Gralla Sun, 22 Jan 2006 07:07:11 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10708 As admirable a goal as undoing the lab-coat stereotype is, it might be useful to teach these kids some science during their visit, too, instead of just that scientists wear normal clothes and do things besides science... that said, the pictures are highly cute As admirable a goal as undoing the lab-coat stereotype is, it might be useful to teach these kids some science during their visit, too, instead of just that scientists wear normal clothes and do things besides science…

that said, the pictures are highly cute

]]> By: PhilipJ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10707 PhilipJ Sun, 22 Jan 2006 03:52:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10707 Re: depressed and tired, the kids are almost right, they're just describing us lackey grad students! :) Re: depressed and tired, the kids are almost right, they’re just describing us lackey grad students! :)

]]> By: Burrow http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10706 Burrow Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:48:50 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10706 All right! I won't turn into a complete geek upon graduation! (act like one, maybe, but not look like one) ;) All right! I won’t turn into a complete geek upon graduation! (act like one, maybe, but not look like one)
;)

]]> By: Plato http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10705 Plato Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:46:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10705 Maybe the kids have inherited the "religious views" of the white lab coat having showed signs of the <a href="http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/richdiesslin_frank_ani.gif" rel="nofollow">Frankenstein syndrome</a> passed from our parents /parents? :) I think this is how the story went :)(oh, let it load) Maybe the kids have inherited the “religious views” of the white lab coat having showed signs of the Frankenstein syndrome passed from our parents /parents? :)

I think this is how the story went :) (oh, let it load)

]]> By: Mark http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10704 Mark Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:13:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10704 Yes, the Denise Richards example is a classic, as is Elizabeth Shue in "The Saint" (as is Keanu in "Chain Reaction"). Yes, the Denise Richards example is a classic, as is Elizabeth Shue in “The Saint” (as is Keanu in “Chain Reaction”).

]]> By: Julianne http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10703 Julianne Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:04:25 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10703 They do get it right sometimes. I quite liked Anne Heche in "Volcano" -- cute but practical clothes, cool gear, and a general aura of pragmatic competence. On the other extreme, I remember David Letterman interviewing Denise Richards before the debut of whatever Bond movie she was in. He asked her about her character, and she replied that she played a nuclear physicist. The audience immediately burst out laughing, because the poor thing could hardly pronounce it. They do get it right sometimes. I quite liked Anne Heche in “Volcano” — cute but practical clothes, cool gear, and a general aura of pragmatic competence.

On the other extreme, I remember David Letterman interviewing Denise Richards before the debut of whatever Bond movie she was in. He asked her about her character, and she replied that she played a nuclear physicist. The audience immediately burst out laughing, because the poor thing could hardly pronounce it.

]]> By: Clifford http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10702 Clifford Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:31:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10702 Julianne: I agree that can be so ridiculous as to be funny.... I describe almost exactly the same thing in this post: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/25/evidence-of-fun/ -cvj Julianne: I agree that can be so ridiculous as to be funny…. I describe almost exactly the same thing in this post:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/09/25/evidence-of-fun/

-cvj

]]> By: Julianne http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/comment-page-1/#comment-10701 Julianne Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:27:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/21/you-would-constantly-be-depressed-and-tired/#comment-10701 My favorite lab coat stereotype is the female scientist seen in movies. She's always a barely disguised bombshell who gets nerded up with a lab coat, heavy glasses, and a bun. Then, through some plot twist, she's required to squeeze into a sequinned strapless dress and heels, revealing a body that looks like she spends 23 hours a day at 24 Hour Fitness. She takes off the glasses, pulls the pins out of her bun as her magnificent head of hair shakes loose and Voila! She's not a nerd! She's Sandra Bullock! My favorite lab coat stereotype is the female scientist seen in movies. She’s always a barely disguised bombshell who gets nerded up with a lab coat, heavy glasses, and a bun. Then, through some plot twist, she’s required to squeeze into a sequinned strapless dress and heels, revealing a body that looks like she spends 23 hours a day at 24 Hour Fitness. She takes off the glasses, pulls the pins out of her bun as her magnificent head of hair shakes loose and Voila! She’s not a nerd! She’s Sandra Bullock!

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