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	<title>Comments on: Mitochondrial Eve and you</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Jesse M.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2006 05:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11080</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/2005/12/06/tree_or_trellis.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is an interesting blog entry from science writer Carl Zimmer on how more extensive genetic testing is providing more detail about human origins than just studying mitochondria as in previous studies--apparently these new studies suggest an interesting blend of &quot;out of africa&quot; and multiregionalism, with three major expansions out of africa at different times, and later waves interbreeding with eurasian populations that had come from earlier waves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/2005/12/06/tree_or_trellis.php" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is an interesting blog entry from science writer Carl Zimmer on how more extensive genetic testing is providing more detail about human origins than just studying mitochondria as in previous studies&#8211;apparently these new studies suggest an interesting blend of &#8220;out of africa&#8221; and multiregionalism, with three major expansions out of africa at different times, and later waves interbreeding with eurasian populations that had come from earlier waves.</p>
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		<title>By: Dumb Biologist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11076</link>
		<dc:creator>Dumb Biologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11076</guid>
		<description>100 bucks, eh?  Oooo, and my monster tax refund is just burning a hole in my wallet even as I write this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100 bucks, eh?  Oooo, and my monster tax refund is just burning a hole in my wallet even as I write this!</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11079</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11079</guid>
		<description>Also interesting:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/999030.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Genetic &#039;Adam never met Eve&#039;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also interesting:</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/999030.stm" rel="nofollow">Genetic &#8216;Adam never met Eve&#8217;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Poppycock</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11078</link>
		<dc:creator>Poppycock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11078</guid>
		<description>I believe that the project is really more interested in indigenous populations than people who want to take part sending in $100. That is just a publicity stunt/money maker.

Testing is being done on indigenous populations for free. However, there have been some difficulties, e.g. in New Zealand. The first I heard about the project was a report in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nzherald.co.nz/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New Zealand Herald&lt;/a&gt; about the Maori being reluctant to take part. See for example &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ogiek.org/news/news-post-05-04-14.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=148&amp;ObjectID=10338311
(that one won&#039;t come up as a link for some reason).

They &quot;know&quot; their roots, and regard this as &quot;scientific imperialism&quot;. I think there may be similar problems with other populations. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11080815/site/newsweek/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This article&lt;/a&gt; mentions a group called Indigenous People&#039;s Council on Biocolonialism, who have similar concerns for native American populations. Hopefully enough people will volunteer to take part to ensure the study has sufficient data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the project is really more interested in indigenous populations than people who want to take part sending in $100. That is just a publicity stunt/money maker.</p>
<p>Testing is being done on indigenous populations for free. However, there have been some difficulties, e.g. in New Zealand. The first I heard about the project was a report in the <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/" rel="nofollow">New Zealand Herald</a> about the Maori being reluctant to take part. See for example <a href="http://www.ogiek.org/news/news-post-05-04-14.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a> and<br />
<a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=148&amp;ObjectID=10338311" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=148&amp;ObjectID=10338311</a><br />
(that one won&#8217;t come up as a link for some reason).</p>
<p>They &#8220;know&#8221; their roots, and regard this as &#8220;scientific imperialism&#8221;. I think there may be similar problems with other populations. <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11080815/site/newsweek/" rel="nofollow">This article</a> mentions a group called Indigenous People&#8217;s Council on Biocolonialism, who have similar concerns for native American populations. Hopefully enough people will volunteer to take part to ensure the study has sufficient data.</p>
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		<title>By: Alejandro Rivero</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11077</link>
		<dc:creator>Alejandro Rivero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11077</guid>
		<description>It is interesting to thing hard on memetic here. A tale or a song fang by a grandmother to her ganddaughther does a time jump greater than a single gene, because it cross two generations. A &quot;old wizard law&quot; or a tabu, from the elders of the tribu to the youngsters, also does a big time jump, across two or three generations. But language differentiation, the big meme thing, seems to proceed at greater speed that racial differentiation (note that language does not bring, imo, a new &quot;memetic species&quot;; you can always learn the language of other men group, in the same way that you can have offspring from intercourse with any other group).

Still, a century spans about five generational jumps, and the whole back to the 70000 years bottleneck (or whathever) is 2800 gene jumps, and perhaps only about 1000 meme jumps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to thing hard on memetic here. A tale or a song fang by a grandmother to her ganddaughther does a time jump greater than a single gene, because it cross two generations. A &#8220;old wizard law&#8221; or a tabu, from the elders of the tribu to the youngsters, also does a big time jump, across two or three generations. But language differentiation, the big meme thing, seems to proceed at greater speed that racial differentiation (note that language does not bring, imo, a new &#8220;memetic species&#8221;; you can always learn the language of other men group, in the same way that you can have offspring from intercourse with any other group).</p>
<p>Still, a century spans about five generational jumps, and the whole back to the 70000 years bottleneck (or whathever) is 2800 gene jumps, and perhaps only about 1000 meme jumps.</p>
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		<title>By: hal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11075</link>
		<dc:creator>hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11075</guid>
		<description>I may be a little cynical, but I have some questions about this project.

1) Is $100 a fair price?  Doing PCR certainly won&#039;t cost that much per sample, although I&#039;m sure there are other costs for analysis and running the project.

2) Won&#039;t there be a problem of over- or under-representation of some populations by collecting samples from people who can afford and are willing to pay $100?

3) How useful is it to collect samples from non-native people of America or Australia, whose populations migrated very recently and have been mixing?  Are they going to be categorized just as Americans/Austrarians of unspecified ancestry?  Or are they going to be categorized as English, Irish, Italian, African etc. to understand migration of these sub-populations?  What should people of mixed ancestries do?

4) I guess getting information on ancestry of a population is different from getting information on ancestry of an individual.  Suppose I have a genetic marker that is rare among my ethnic group.  It&#039;s difficult to know if this particular case means that one of my recent ancestors came from outside of the group or that my ancestors were rare carriers of the marker in the group.  I can imagine that you can tell more about the population than an individual using statistics.  But I suspect that many people who participate in this project are more interested in their particular ancestry (&quot;my ancestors came from X and Y.&quot;) than, say, how English and Scandinavians are related as populations.

Is this really all about science, or is this also a business?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be a little cynical, but I have some questions about this project.</p>
<p>1) Is $100 a fair price?  Doing PCR certainly won&#8217;t cost that much per sample, although I&#8217;m sure there are other costs for analysis and running the project.</p>
<p>2) Won&#8217;t there be a problem of over- or under-representation of some populations by collecting samples from people who can afford and are willing to pay $100?</p>
<p>3) How useful is it to collect samples from non-native people of America or Australia, whose populations migrated very recently and have been mixing?  Are they going to be categorized just as Americans/Austrarians of unspecified ancestry?  Or are they going to be categorized as English, Irish, Italian, African etc. to understand migration of these sub-populations?  What should people of mixed ancestries do?</p>
<p>4) I guess getting information on ancestry of a population is different from getting information on ancestry of an individual.  Suppose I have a genetic marker that is rare among my ethnic group.  It&#8217;s difficult to know if this particular case means that one of my recent ancestors came from outside of the group or that my ancestors were rare carriers of the marker in the group.  I can imagine that you can tell more about the population than an individual using statistics.  But I suspect that many people who participate in this project are more interested in their particular ancestry (&#8221;my ancestors came from X and Y.&#8221;) than, say, how English and Scandinavians are related as populations.</p>
<p>Is this really all about science, or is this also a business?</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11059</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11059</guid>
		<description>No, Jim, the Emperor of Japan and the King of Norway share a common ancestor who lived some 5000 years ago.  The isolated tribes just needed one or two entrants over the last 5000 years or so in ordr to share that common ancestor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Jim, the Emperor of Japan and the King of Norway share a common ancestor who lived some 5000 years ago.  The isolated tribes just needed one or two entrants over the last 5000 years or so in ordr to share that common ancestor.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11062</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11062</guid>
		<description>They really think that *everyone* in the world is descended from a European due to migration in the past 600 years or so?  The Emporer of Japan?  The King of Swaziland?  Those isolated tribes in New Guinea?  Call me skeptical.  It seems any simulation would be way too sensitive to the assumptions it is built on, such as no inbred tribes.

Even though I doubt this about today&#039;s world, it probably won&#039;t be many more centuries until someone (maybe, in fact, a European from the past few thousand years) dethrones the current MRCA, who I&#039;d guess had had about a 50,000 year reign.

By the way, does anyone know which *living* person is thought to have the most living descendants?  Any guesses?  There must be a pretty short short-list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They really think that *everyone* in the world is descended from a European due to migration in the past 600 years or so?  The Emporer of Japan?  The King of Swaziland?  Those isolated tribes in New Guinea?  Call me skeptical.  It seems any simulation would be way too sensitive to the assumptions it is built on, such as no inbred tribes.</p>
<p>Even though I doubt this about today&#8217;s world, it probably won&#8217;t be many more centuries until someone (maybe, in fact, a European from the past few thousand years) dethrones the current MRCA, who I&#8217;d guess had had about a 50,000 year reign.</p>
<p>By the way, does anyone know which *living* person is thought to have the most living descendants?  Any guesses?  There must be a pretty short short-list.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11072</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11072</guid>
		<description>I recently heard that the chimps can be aggressive, nasty, and violent (even mortally violent) toward each other, whereas the bonobos live a summer-of-love peaceful kind of life. Which do we most resemble?  :-) And some of our politicians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently heard that the chimps can be aggressive, nasty, and violent (even mortally violent) toward each other, whereas the bonobos live a summer-of-love peaceful kind of life. Which do we most resemble?  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  And some of our politicians?</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-11060</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/30/mitochondrial-eve-and-you/#comment-11060</guid>
		<description>All I know is I seem to have a damn site more bonobo in me than most people seem to. ;^)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I know is I seem to have a damn site more bonobo in me than most people seem to. ;^)</p>
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