This means that

a) colleagues do not know anything personal about me except for my hobbies and interests

b) my friends and colleagues fall into non-intersecting sets

c) anyone who brings up the “my wife/ g.f. doesn’t understand me” line will get the “I’m in Physics and Math, I’m not very good with giving advice on personal stuff” response from me – said nicely but firmly. Only friends get the benefit of my personal side.

Anyway, the ppl I’ve met in Math/Physics have not been interested in discussing anything uncomfortably close to heart, so I’ve never really been tested on this!

–Q.

I know, it’s a fuzzy boundary:

Perhaps a little of both of what you say (small department, culture of the department). Workplaces could have a thousand/more people with many departments, and each department could be large too, so then a rule not to date those in a very large environment (for ex. a large company) doesn’t seem like a reasonable rule. Also, my rule might look strange in the culture (Italy) where I’m working now because I see many husband/wife(s) researchers working with each other (I think it is part of the family aspect of the culture). Finally, if the work area is at home (home office) as a consultant, say, then such a rule doesn’t seem appropriate.

In a research or academic environment, the farther in physical space, the better for me, for who I could think as ‘dateable’. If I consider one of my typical research areas where I’ve worked, I break down the ‘dateable’ rule like this:

Within my close Working Group (usually 10-20 people): No.

Within my Department (several working groups, ~50 people): No.

Within my Division (several departments, ~200-400 people): I prefer not, but I don’t rule it out.

We have a large grad student population (for astronomy – 38) and ~25% of them (including myself) are dating each other or a former grad student who has since graduated.

Then again, all the women on the faculty are married to astronomy faculty.

And also, our dept. has tended to be more open, family friendly, encouraging of outside activities, etc. than some others.

We do worry more about the two body problem here

Amara: Absolutely there is a spectrum, and light-hearted banter/teasing is something I enjoy(ed). The trouble comes when someone starts to think/hope that it is meant seriously. I think perhaps the trouble is I am not easily offended, and am quite open as I said upthread, and so what to me is normal behaviour to someone less open seems like an invite to get closer.

bittergradstudent: I think your wishes re. the media apply in a lot more context than just harrassment. They very frequently don’t include any background or include the whole story.

A collegue and I went for coffee
I guess I’m too much of a softy
Cause after the latte
Then thickens the plot eh?
Cause now I can’t get the guy off me.

I think that there’s a spectrum, like many aspects of human interactions. Note that the culture you’re in embeds its own rules too. Crudely the variation of flirting might look like this:

-light (harmless, playful),

-annoying (in which case, the offended party should say something to him/her),

-heavy (harassment, here if the offended didn’t say something, they certainly should, and if it continues, then talk to your boss/his/her/boss to stop it.

I am sure that all of my coworkers and me in all of my jobs over the years have engaged in the light variety. I don’t see a problem with that, in fact why not enjoy being the women and men that we are? Our work occupies a large part of our lives usually, so it’s nice when different facets enter to make it more enjoyable. Everyone has their own thresholds for the annoying kind of flirting. I agree that harassment kind has no place in the workplace, it creates a poisonous ambiance.

My mother years ago told me that she feels sad for how far the harassment statutes have gone in the US workplace. It’s a heavy weight for the guys to carry, that is, not being able to relax with what they say or do around a woman at work because that woman might be offended.

One would think that a relaxed workplace is a productive workplace, yes?

AstroCook: “On the topic “can men and women be friends without thinking about OTHER THINGS?”…. as a female graduate student, I find that glimmers of flirtation appear in nearly every situation concerning my peers. I have every hope that this diminishes with age… maybe I’m being naive, though??”

Dear AstroCook: Yes, you are being naive, and I hope for me that it doesn’t diminish with age!

AstroCook: pretty much the same problem. And the thing is, it’s not even flattering, since all it really means is “Hey, you’re female AND you do physics! Wow! You’ll do, since I can’t date any of the women I’m actually attracted to as they get sick of me spending all the time in the lab.”

As for diminishing with age, I figured that it would as the proportion of married people would rise?

simply it means sex,
“hey u wanna come up for coffee”
really he/she means hey u wanna have sex.

Dear AstroCook: Yes, you are being naive, and I hope for me that it doesn’t diminish with age!

I’m gay, so I’m totally oblivious to women being interested in me *that* way. I’m out to anyone who thinks about it for about 10 seconds–I’m kind of fem, so it’s just obvious–but I’ve had some akward situations at work where I’ve found out women have had crushes on me from a third party. I’m stunned, at first, but then I start thinking back on my interactions with that particular woman and I realize that I might have unknowingly sent out the wrong signals.

Oh, and coffee is eeeeevvvviiiilllll. I call it Liquid Heroin.

Great post, Sean, it made my day too.

Now THAT’s innocent. I’m afraid that his one-liner is really blatant flirtation.

On the topic “can men and women be friends without thinking about OTHER THINGS?”…. as a female graduate student, I find that glimmers of flirtation appear in nearly every situation concerning my peers. I have every hope that this diminishes with age… maybe I’m being naive, though??

-cvj

I didn’t find the story funny really – once it’s happened to you and resulted in the loss of a potential friend, it’s just sad. Especially if it happens more than once and you realise that you have to stop being such an open and friendly person because this gets misconstrued as “being interested” and so completely backfires as you then have to disabuse your friend of the notation that you want anything more, which is awkward for all concerned.

That’s right, Poppycock. It’s not funny when it happens and sometimes you do lose a colleague and/or friend. Sometimes it’s just plain embarrassing and difficult to know how to disfuse the situation. But it really is just like high school or college. Never, never, change your personality or stop being yourself. If a colleague hits on you, just politely tell the person you’re not interested (unless, of course, you are) and move on. It is surprising how often stuff like this happens.

Clifford: It was 2 hours. I left the office to get some coffee, trying to oustsmart the program and eat up some of the mandated time in front of the monitor. However, the system was smart enough to note my inactivity and logged me off! Meaning that I had to start all over!! I was not a happy camper.

And I’m with bittergradstudent (since, you know, I am one) – no interdepartment dating. There are just too many things that can go wrong there.