Comments on: Think like an economist http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:15:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: fh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12135 fh Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:49:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12135 Thanks! Coeckes paper with Abramsky on a categorial semantics for quantum protocols (I *love* the title) has been precisely what I have looked through the last week. And yes I'm young, but if symmetric monoidal categories seem simple to me it's because John Baez writes about them (quant-ph/0404040 and on his webpage), and everything John Baez writes about seems simple ;) Nevermind that due to your suggestion what is now Coeckes next paper on my reading list is actually called Kindergarten Quantum Mechanics. *g* I didn't see yet that this is related to intuionist approaches (which I know next to nothing about!) though, I'll keep my eyes open, thanks! Thanks!
Coeckes paper with Abramsky on a categorial semantics for quantum protocols (I *love* the title) has been precisely what I have looked through the last week. And yes I’m young, but if symmetric monoidal categories seem simple to me it’s because John Baez writes about them (quant-ph/0404040 and on his webpage), and everything John Baez writes about seems simple ;)
Nevermind that due to your suggestion what is now Coeckes next paper on my reading list is actually called Kindergarten Quantum Mechanics. *g*

I didn’t see yet that this is related to intuionist approaches (which I know next to nothing about!) though, I’ll keep my eyes open, thanks!

]]> By: Kea http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12134 Kea Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:21:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12134 Hi fh If you think symmetric monoidal categories are simple (and you are quite young, correct?) then you have a bright future ahead of you! Yes, I am working on intuitionistic approaches to quantum logic (well, actually, QG logic but I haven't got that far yet). There is surprisingly little out there. If you google Coecke you will find the most interesting papers to date. Take your time. Cheers Kea Hi fh

If you think symmetric monoidal categories are simple (and you are quite young, correct?) then you have a bright future ahead of you! Yes, I am working on intuitionistic approaches to quantum logic (well, actually, QG logic but I haven’t got that far yet). There is surprisingly little out there. If you google Coecke you will find the most interesting papers to date. Take your time.

Cheers
Kea

]]> By: fh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12133 fh Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:14:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12133 Kea, nope at least not yet. At the moment it's actually still quite close to proper physics. and I'm making my way to the definitions of TQFT, and applications to quantum computation. So it's mostly closed compact/symmetric monoidial categories, quite basic really, I haven't strayed to the intuionist/Topoi side of things yet. Are you working on that? Do you have any pointers of interesting (from a physicists PoV) allees to stray to in that direction? Kea,
nope at least not yet. At the moment it’s actually still quite close to proper physics. and I’m making my way to the definitions of TQFT, and applications to quantum computation. So it’s mostly closed compact/symmetric monoidial categories, quite basic really, I haven’t strayed to the intuionist/Topoi side of things yet.

Are you working on that? Do you have any pointers of interesting (from a physicists PoV) allees to stray to in that direction?

]]> By: Sean http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12132 Sean Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:28:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12132 spyder, it's a matter of maximizing returns. The time you spend picking up balls is not spent playing tennis. Actually I'm not completely sure that the problem isn't dominated by boundary conditions, and it wouldn't be most efficient to use a different ball for each volley, picking up the whole bunch of them once you are done. And I did think it was three to a can, but things could have changed since my younger or tennis-ball-lobbing days. spyder, it’s a matter of maximizing returns. The time you spend picking up balls is not spent playing tennis. Actually I’m not completely sure that the problem isn’t dominated by boundary conditions, and it wouldn’t be most efficient to use a different ball for each volley, picking up the whole bunch of them once you are done.

And I did think it was three to a can, but things could have changed since my younger or tennis-ball-lobbing days.

]]> By: Scott http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12131 Scott Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:06:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12131 clearly this depends on singles/doubles, pocket size, ease of removal from pocket, prescence of ballboys, ball speeds(balls might die if the players are good enough), fence hight, match or practice, players tendency to hit the ball long or in the net, desire for specific pace of points(if player is out of shape they will want to spend more time getting balls), ect ect. obviously this is an experimental question not a theoretical one. clearly this depends on singles/doubles, pocket size, ease of removal from pocket, prescence of ballboys, ball speeds(balls might die if the players are good enough), fence hight, match or practice, players tendency to hit the ball long or in the net, desire for specific pace of points(if player is out of shape they will want to spend more time getting balls), ect ect.

obviously this is an experimental question not a theoretical one.

]]> By: spyder http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12130 spyder Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:59:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12130 The inherent weakness in this discussion: <i>Just one ball is not efficient, because when it falls out of play it is probably far from you. The greater the number of balls, the more likely at least one will be close.</i> We are asked to assume that one is too lazy to walk over and pick it up, although one is desiring to play tennis?? The greater the number of balls the more likely one is to get injured, twisting an ankle or knee, falling on the court, etc. And, while <i>macho</i> points out that the balls come three to a can, i never understood why? Maybe economists already solved that problem, now they are worrying about balls? The inherent weakness in this discussion: Just one ball is not efficient, because when it falls out of play it is probably far from you. The greater the number of balls, the more likely at least one will be close.

We are asked to assume that one is too lazy to walk over and pick it up, although one is desiring to play tennis?? The greater the number of balls the more likely one is to get injured, twisting an ankle or knee, falling on the court, etc. And, while macho points out that the balls come three to a can, i never understood why? Maybe economists already solved that problem, now they are worrying about balls?

]]> By: Kea http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12129 Kea Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:45:47 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12129 "I'm currently studying applications of Category theory to Quantum Mechanics." fh Really? Great! What sort of thing? Intuitionistic approaches? “I’m currently studying applications of Category theory to Quantum Mechanics.”

fh

Really? Great! What sort of thing? Intuitionistic approaches?

]]> By: fh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12128 fh Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:20:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12128 Kea, LoL, though I'm currently studying applications of Category theory to Quantum Mechanics. We physicists are not save from this kind of wanderings either... ;) Kea, LoL,
though I’m currently studying applications of Category theory to Quantum Mechanics. We physicists are not save from this kind of wanderings either… ;)

]]> By: Kea http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12127 Kea Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:36:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12127 And I know an academic Economist, who has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't think much of the real world, who comes to Category Theory seminars. And I know an academic Economist, who has clearly demonstrated that he doesn’t think much of the real world, who comes to Category Theory seminars.

]]> By: Kea http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12126 Kea Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:32:07 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12126 I know an Economist who will proudly tell you that he doesn't care at all about the real world - only the beautiful mathematics. Strangely, he still seems to have quite a bit of money. I know an Economist who will proudly tell you that he doesn’t care at all about the real world – only the beautiful mathematics. Strangely, he still seems to have quite a bit of money.

]]> By: Moshe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12125 Moshe Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:54:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12125 I am wondering how much of practicing economics has to do with beautiful mathematical models (game theory can be really cool), and how much it has to do with the ugly reality (politics etc.), probably a little bit of both... I am wondering how much of practicing economics has to do with beautiful mathematical models (game theory can be really cool), and how much it has to do with the ugly reality (politics etc.), probably a little bit of both…

]]> By: Count Iblis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12124 Count Iblis Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:11:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12124 Birds have to solve ''economics'' problems all the time, <a href="http://star.tau.ac.il/QUIZ/06/Q01.06.html" rel="nofollow">see here.</a> :) Birds have to solve ”economics” problems all the time, see here. :)

]]> By: macho http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12123 macho Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:23:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12123 Proof that economists are even more out of touch with the real world than physicists: tennis balls come three to a can. Proof that economists are even more out of touch with the real world than physicists: tennis balls come three to a can.

]]> By: Ponderer of Things http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12122 Ponderer of Things Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:21:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12122 the correct answer is 8 the correct answer is 8

]]> By: Steinn Sigurdsson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12121 Steinn Sigurdsson Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:19:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12121 You need an astrophysicist here, clearly. One ball is not enough. It is obvious that 100 balls is too many. Therefore, <i>O</i>(10) balls is about right... If they come in quanta of 4, then 8 maybe not quite enough, and 16 is close to the magical factor of 2 where you worry about the detailed physics. So, 12 sounds about right. Wait, did I just agree with an economist... Oh, not it is ok. 16 is too many, 12, not so much. 'Cause 8 is clearly ok, and 12 and 8 are within one standard deviation of 10 and indistinguishable in most realistic observational contexts. You need an astrophysicist here, clearly.

One ball is not enough.

It is obvious that 100 balls is too many.

Therefore, O(10) balls is about right…

If they come in quanta of 4, then 8 maybe not quite enough, and 16 is close to the magical factor of 2 where you worry about the detailed physics. So, 12 sounds about right.

Wait, did I just agree with an economist…
Oh, not it is ok. 16 is too many, 12, not so much. ‘Cause 8 is clearly ok, and 12 and 8 are within one standard deviation of 10 and indistinguishable in most realistic observational contexts.

]]> By: Troublemaker http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12120 Troublemaker Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:15:49 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12120 Heh, balls. Hard. Stroke. Heh, balls. Hard. Stroke.

]]> By: Elliot http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12118 Elliot Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:56:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12118 Twelve balls might not be too many if you are working extremely hard to improve your ground stroke. Twelve balls might not be too many if you are working extremely hard to improve your ground stroke.

]]> By: damtp_dweller http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/comment-page-1/#comment-12119 damtp_dweller Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:27:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/02/16/think-like-an-economist/#comment-12119 I sense a variational approach to the Tennis Ball problem coming on should be possible. There would, of course, be an important caveat to this approach: If tf, the endpoint of the curve, corresponds to your opponent's crotch, it is obvious that the optimal number of tennis balls required is one. I sense a variational approach to the Tennis Ball problem coming on should be possible.

There would, of course, be an important caveat to this approach: If tf, the endpoint of the curve, corresponds to your opponent’s crotch, it is obvious that the optimal number of tennis balls required is one.

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