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	<title>Comments on: Physicists against the nuclear option</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-15041</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 03:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-15041</guid>
		<description>http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/hitchens-hacker-and-hitchens.html

should be read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/hitchens-hacker-and-hitchens.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/hitchens-hacker-and-hitchens.html</a></p>
<p>should be read.</p>
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		<title>By: Belizean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-14984</link>
		<dc:creator>Belizean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-14984</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But what about using the 20 billion to bribe Ahmedinejad et al to give up power? That would probably make the revolution itself much cleaner. What do you think about this idea?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

weichi,

This won&#039;t work.  Unlike the jaded leaderships of Russia and China, Ahmedinejad is a true believer.  The only viable option is to depose or kill him.  Moreover, because he is merely the current front man for the ruling clerical elite, this must be destroyed as well.

It looks like the Bush administration&#039;s shortsighted fear of bad press will soon result in an age of unprecedented nuclear proliferation and blackmail against the West by scores of Islamic terror groups.  If you think that the West was overly timid in the face of cartoon jihadists, just imagine how we&#039;ll be once they&#039;ve gone nuclear.  Assuming that there&#039;s a limit to our submission, the West&#039;s inaction now will surely lead to WWIII later.  I now have some inkling of what analysts steeped in common sense must have felt during the 1930s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But what about using the 20 billion to bribe Ahmedinejad et al to give up power? That would probably make the revolution itself much cleaner. What do you think about this idea?</p></blockquote>
<p>weichi,</p>
<p>This won&#8217;t work.  Unlike the jaded leaderships of Russia and China, Ahmedinejad is a true believer.  The only viable option is to depose or kill him.  Moreover, because he is merely the current front man for the ruling clerical elite, this must be destroyed as well.</p>
<p>It looks like the Bush administration&#8217;s shortsighted fear of bad press will soon result in an age of unprecedented nuclear proliferation and blackmail against the West by scores of Islamic terror groups.  If you think that the West was overly timid in the face of cartoon jihadists, just imagine how we&#8217;ll be once they&#8217;ve gone nuclear.  Assuming that there&#8217;s a limit to our submission, the West&#8217;s inaction now will surely lead to WWIII later.  I now have some inkling of what analysts steeped in common sense must have felt during the 1930s.</p>
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		<title>By: weichi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-14983</link>
		<dc:creator>weichi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-14983</guid>
		<description>Belizean,

I see you have been back, but still no comment on my idea of bribing Amhedinejad and his buddies to give up power. I still think it would be more likely to work than your idea of bribing Putin &amp; Hu to allow us to foment a revolution. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belizean,</p>
<p>I see you have been back, but still no comment on my idea of bribing Amhedinejad and his buddies to give up power. I still think it would be more likely to work than your idea of bribing Putin &amp; Hu to allow us to foment a revolution. What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-15040</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-15040</guid>
		<description>As a counterpoint for all the useful and unuseful academic, scientific, and humanistic ramblings above -- I suggest everyone see the stunningly moving, sad, and brutally honest photo exhibit by Paul Fusco from Magnum currently on the homepage of Slate.com. http://www.slate.com

Those are the effects of nuclear radiation, ten years out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a counterpoint for all the useful and unuseful academic, scientific, and humanistic ramblings above &#8212; I suggest everyone see the stunningly moving, sad, and brutally honest photo exhibit by Paul Fusco from Magnum currently on the homepage of Slate.com. <a href="http://www.slate.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com</a></p>
<p>Those are the effects of nuclear radiation, ten years out.</p>
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		<title>By: Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-15039</link>
		<dc:creator>Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-15039</guid>
		<description>The fallout decay rate is approximately porportional to t^-1.2, so at 7 hours it is only 10% of that at 1 hour, and at 2 days it is 1% of that at 1 hour, etc.  There are 210 radioactive fission products which decay in &#039;chains&#039; of a few steps into 90 stable end products.  These 300 nuclides consist of 36 elements, with isotopes ranging from zinc-72 to terbium-161. About 72% of the half-lives are under 24 hours, and only 4% exceed one year.  It is also easy to sweep you or hose off fallout from land burst explosions:

&#039;A number of factors make large-scale decontamination useful in urban areas. Much of the area between buildings is paved and, thus, readily cleaned using motorized flushers and sweepers, which are usually available. If, in addition, the roofs are decontaminated by high-pressure hosing, it may be possible to make entire buildings habitable fairly soon, even if the fallout has been very heavy.&#039; â€&quot; Dr Frederick P. Cowan and Charles B. Meinhold, Decontamination, Chapter 10 (pp. 225-240) of Dr Eugene P. Wigner, editor, Survival and the Bomb, Indiana University Press, Bloomington, 1969.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fallout decay rate is approximately porportional to t^-1.2, so at 7 hours it is only 10% of that at 1 hour, and at 2 days it is 1% of that at 1 hour, etc.  There are 210 radioactive fission products which decay in &#8216;chains&#8217; of a few steps into 90 stable end products.  These 300 nuclides consist of 36 elements, with isotopes ranging from zinc-72 to terbium-161. About 72% of the half-lives are under 24 hours, and only 4% exceed one year.  It is also easy to sweep you or hose off fallout from land burst explosions:</p>
<p>&#8216;A number of factors make large-scale decontamination useful in urban areas. Much of the area between buildings is paved and, thus, readily cleaned using motorized flushers and sweepers, which are usually available. If, in addition, the roofs are decontaminated by high-pressure hosing, it may be possible to make entire buildings habitable fairly soon, even if the fallout has been very heavy.&#8217; â€&#8221; Dr Frederick P. Cowan and Charles B. Meinhold, Decontamination, Chapter 10 (pp. 225-240) of Dr Eugene P. Wigner, editor, Survival and the Bomb, Indiana University Press, Bloomington, 1969.</p>
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		<title>By: Carpneter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-14979</link>
		<dc:creator>Carpneter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-14979</guid>
		<description>We are all assuming that these nukes will even hit thier intended target, remember  the &quot;precision&#039; strikes in Iraq?  I&#039;m not sure about how subsurace bombs compare to thosse you would drop on a city .A ground penetrating explosion soaks up much of the thermal radiation and has a smaller blast radius, but does it make the air fallout worse?  The blast site itself will also become hot, how long will it remain radioactive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are all assuming that these nukes will even hit thier intended target, remember  the &#8220;precision&#8217; strikes in Iraq?  I&#8217;m not sure about how subsurace bombs compare to thosse you would drop on a city .A ground penetrating explosion soaks up much of the thermal radiation and has a smaller blast radius, but does it make the air fallout worse?  The blast site itself will also become hot, how long will it remain radioactive?</p>
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		<title>By: Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-14980</link>
		<dc:creator>Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-14980</guid>
		<description>Arun, the fallout dose takes many hours to accumulate, indded much of it is accumulated over a period of days.  The authors of those papers assume that everyone over several square kilometres is a sitting duck.  You can walk away in time to avoid a fatal dose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arun, the fallout dose takes many hours to accumulate, indded much of it is accumulated over a period of days.  The authors of those papers assume that everyone over several square kilometres is a sitting duck.  You can walk away in time to avoid a fatal dose.</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-14981</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-14981</guid>
		<description>http://www.princeton.edu/%7Eglobsec/publications/pdf/10_1Nelson.pdf

&lt;blockquote&gt;A one kiloton earth-penetrating &quot;mininuke&quot; used in a typical third-world urban environment would spread a lethal dose of radioactive fallout over several square kilometers, resulting in tens of thousands of civilian fatalities.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/%7Eglobsec/publications/pdf/10_1Nelson.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.princeton.edu/%7Eglobsec/publications/pdf/10_1Nelson.pdf</a></p>
<blockquote><p>A one kiloton earth-penetrating &#8220;mininuke&#8221; used in a typical third-world urban environment would spread a lethal dose of radioactive fallout over several square kilometers, resulting in tens of thousands of civilian fatalities.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-14982</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-14982</guid>
		<description>I believe a large yield is going to be needed to destroy Natanz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe a large yield is going to be needed to destroy Natanz.</p>
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		<title>By: Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/comment-page-1/#comment-15038</link>
		<dc:creator>Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/19/physicists-against-the-nuclear-option/#comment-15038</guid>
		<description>Arun, the earth-penetrator base surge radiation studies you link to assume a large fission yield.  The &quot;Uncle&quot; test at Nevada in 1951 was at earth penetrator depth and was 1.2 kilotons fission, available in declassified report DASA-1251.  The fallout was slightly heavier than the 1.2 kt &quot;Sugar&quot; surface burst tested in the same series, with the serious hazards a few hundred metres around ground zero upwind and 1-2 km downwind.  If you are using an earth penetrator you would need to tell people to take cover for from the base surge and fallout, or walk out of the area.

The time to walk away is short compared to the time taken to accumulate a serious dose for such a small weapon.  The dose rises slowly, you can see the underground burst fallout hazard (not the radiation, the actual fused particles of fallout), so what&#039;s the big deal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arun, the earth-penetrator base surge radiation studies you link to assume a large fission yield.  The &#8220;Uncle&#8221; test at Nevada in 1951 was at earth penetrator depth and was 1.2 kilotons fission, available in declassified report DASA-1251.  The fallout was slightly heavier than the 1.2 kt &#8220;Sugar&#8221; surface burst tested in the same series, with the serious hazards a few hundred metres around ground zero upwind and 1-2 km downwind.  If you are using an earth penetrator you would need to tell people to take cover for from the base surge and fallout, or walk out of the area.</p>
<p>The time to walk away is short compared to the time taken to accumulate a serious dose for such a small weapon.  The dose rises slowly, you can see the underground burst fallout hazard (not the radiation, the actual fused particles of fallout), so what&#8217;s the big deal?</p>
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