Comments on: Cosmic Variance Goes To Church http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:36:39 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: The Yankovic Singularity - Asymptotia http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15187 The Yankovic Singularity - Asymptotia Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:46:25 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15187 [...] I laughed, I’ll admit. I find his fresh-faced and cheerful style quite funny at times. But then I got thinking. I can’t decide whether I should be depressed at the potency of the stereotypes he is playing with, or just carry on giggling. For example, why did the guys who were representing the complete opposite of being nerdy (and into science, reading, and the like) have to be cast as black? Worse than that (or at least equally as bad) is that fact that not one of his friends (on the chess team, or at the Renaissance fair, or other apparently nerdy activities, is black). In fact, the only thing that the white people and the black people in the video have in common is bowling, apparently. This really does not help at all, but he’s not to shoulder the whole blame of course - he’s merely reflecting the prevailing biases of the culture at large. Images all around implicitly and sometimes explicitly tell young black kids that science is not for them. Either because they supposedly can’t do it very well, or because it is not part of their “culture”, or because it is just not “cool” (I’ve blogged about this before. See here and here for example, and the discussion that followed). So Al and his people toed the line in trying to make a funny video. Nobody is going to laugh as much if the main “cool” guys were white, or if the principal “nerd” was black. They’d just think it was unrealistic. But did it have to be so completely polarized? Could there not be one “cool” guy who was white, and one “nerd” who was black? Just in the background somewhere? Would it really have reduced the impact of the joke so much? Sigh. [...] [...] I laughed, I’ll admit. I find his fresh-faced and cheerful style quite funny at times. But then I got thinking. I can’t decide whether I should be depressed at the potency of the stereotypes he is playing with, or just carry on giggling. For example, why did the guys who were representing the complete opposite of being nerdy (and into science, reading, and the like) have to be cast as black? Worse than that (or at least equally as bad) is that fact that not one of his friends (on the chess team, or at the Renaissance fair, or other apparently nerdy activities, is black). In fact, the only thing that the white people and the black people in the video have in common is bowling, apparently. This really does not help at all, but he’s not to shoulder the whole blame of course – he’s merely reflecting the prevailing biases of the culture at large. Images all around implicitly and sometimes explicitly tell young black kids that science is not for them. Either because they supposedly can’t do it very well, or because it is not part of their “culture”, or because it is just not “cool” (I’ve blogged about this before. See here and here for example, and the discussion that followed). So Al and his people toed the line in trying to make a funny video. Nobody is going to laugh as much if the main “cool” guys were white, or if the principal “nerd” was black. They’d just think it was unrealistic. But did it have to be so completely polarized? Could there not be one “cool” guy who was white, and one “nerd” who was black? Just in the background somewhere? Would it really have reduced the impact of the joke so much? Sigh. [...]

]]> By: The Sermon | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15186 The Sermon | Cosmic Variance Mon, 01 May 2006 03:51:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15186 [...] Well, it went wonderfully. What went wonderfully? My one hour (plus) talk at a local church in the ‘hood. I mentioned the backstory in a previous post. It was quite a long day in the end. I got up at 6:00am to write my “sermon” -which involved hunting with Google images for images which would illustrate the various themes I wanted to bring out. I sketched what I wanted to say mostly in my head and on a few scraps of paper, but the idea was not to be scripted, and talk off the cuff. The scribbling was simply a means of ordering various themes. [...] [...] Well, it went wonderfully. What went wonderfully? My one hour (plus) talk at a local church in the ‘hood. I mentioned the backstory in a previous post. It was quite a long day in the end. I got up at 6:00am to write my “sermon” -which involved hunting with Google images for images which would illustrate the various themes I wanted to bring out. I sketched what I wanted to say mostly in my head and on a few scraps of paper, but the idea was not to be scripted, and talk off the cuff. The scribbling was simply a means of ordering various themes. [...]

]]> By: Tony Smith http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15185 Tony Smith Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:57:41 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15185 Clifford said that he is "... going to this church (it is actually an elementary school during the weekday) ...". Is the school part of the LA public school system ? If so, has there been any controversy about use of public facilities to support religion ? Tony Smith http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/ PS - I guess I should state my position for the record - I am OK with that type of church/state contract, i.e. use of state facilities during times (such as weekends) when they are not being used for their state purposes, so long as there is no discrimination among groups requesting (or bidding for) such use. Clifford said that he is “… going to this church (it is actually an elementary school during the weekday) …”.

Is the school part of the LA public school system ?
If so, has there been any controversy about use of public facilities to support religion ?

Tony Smith
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/

PS – I guess I should state my position for the record – I am OK with that type of church/state contract, i.e. use of state facilities during times (such as weekends) when they are not being used for their state purposes, so long as there is no discrimination among groups requesting (or bidding for) such use.

]]> By: I See Book People | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15184 I See Book People | Cosmic Variance Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:00:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15184 [...] Which reminds me. Sleep. Must get up and write and give sermon tomorrow. [...] [...] Which reminds me. Sleep. Must get up and write and give sermon tomorrow. [...]

]]> By: Harv http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15183 Harv Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:28:08 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15183 Hope your talk goes well! I think it's great that you're doing this. As an astronomer and a Catholic, I've never seen any need for antagonism between science and religion. And I really admire all the churches who reach out to their neighborhoods. I noticed St. John the Divine church in NYC really did a lot of this when I visited there a few years ago. Hope your talk goes well! I think it’s great that you’re doing this. As an astronomer and a Catholic, I’ve never seen any need for antagonism between science and religion.

And I really admire all the churches who reach out to their neighborhoods. I noticed St. John the Divine church in NYC really did a lot of this when I visited there a few years ago.

]]> By: John Faughnan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15182 John Faughnan Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:27:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15182 First, great story, loved it, keep up the cause. Thanks for writing about it. Second, what is it about youngsters and religion these days? I mean, I was a teenage atheist too, but back then it was a rare thing. Sister Fraley made a fuss over me and called me the "ape man". Nowadays it seems almost fashionable. I need a young-un to explain what's up. Nowadays I'm an classic intellectual agnostic, with a fair bit of theology under my belt. I have a lot of sympathy for the religious impulse, even if I fear any deity/designer would be as likely malevolent as indifferent, and most unlikely compassionate. So given all that, I'm struck by the rise of aggressive atheism. As I wrote to PZ Myers (he ignored me), it's a scary, nasty, harsh, cruel, relentless universe out there. What's wrong with sheltering in a comforting story? Heck, if I could do it I probably would. First, great story, loved it, keep up the cause. Thanks for writing about it.

Second, what is it about youngsters and religion these days? I mean, I was a teenage atheist too, but back then it was a rare thing. Sister Fraley made a fuss over me and called me the “ape man”. Nowadays it seems almost fashionable. I need a young-un to explain what’s up.

Nowadays I’m an classic intellectual agnostic, with a fair bit of theology under my belt. I have a lot of sympathy for the religious impulse, even if I fear any deity/designer would be as likely malevolent as indifferent, and most unlikely compassionate.

So given all that, I’m struck by the rise of aggressive atheism. As I wrote to PZ Myers (he ignored me), it’s a scary, nasty, harsh, cruel, relentless universe out there. What’s wrong with sheltering in a comforting story? Heck, if I could do it I probably would.

]]> By: Books Books Books! | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15181 Books Books Books! | Cosmic Variance Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:22:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15181 [...] Actually, this year I won’t be able to see much because I promised to go with a big group to the top of Mount Wilson the fun way, which will take up most of Saturday. On Sunday, I’m doing the church sermon thing I mentioned earlier and then they are taking me to lunch and doing more Q&A, so I don’t know when I’ll make it over to UCLA that day. [...] [...] Actually, this year I won’t be able to see much because I promised to go with a big group to the top of Mount Wilson the fun way, which will take up most of Saturday. On Sunday, I’m doing the church sermon thing I mentioned earlier and then they are taking me to lunch and doing more Q&A, so I don’t know when I’ll make it over to UCLA that day. [...]

]]> By: Levi http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15159 Levi Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:23:17 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15159 "Yes, this is cvj writing, so there's always a long backstory" I hope you know that a lot of us who read you here wouldn't want it any other way. Wonderful post. “Yes, this is cvj writing, so there’s always a long backstory”

I hope you know that a lot of us who read you here wouldn’t want it any other way. Wonderful post.

]]> By: Torbjörn Larsson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15158 Torbjörn Larsson Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:13:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15158 Don't you mean Xmas? Don’t you mean Xmas?

]]> By: Quibbler http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-15157 Quibbler Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:12:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/04/25/cosmic-variance-goes-to-church/#comment-15157 Best of luck with your talk. Good on you! --Q. Best of luck with your talk. Good on you!

–Q.

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