Comments on: Fiddling with the World Cup http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:09:16 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Lessons from Monopoly | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18143 Lessons from Monopoly | Cosmic Variance Fri, 04 Aug 2006 15:11:34 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18143 [...] Nevertheless, as we have been known to fearlessly suggest improvements in the world’s classic games, I have a couple of ways to make Monopoly even better — more equitable without having the income distribution settle into some happy socialist equilibrium where incentives are balanced against economic guarantees. (Where would be the fun in that?) [...] [...] Nevertheless, as we have been known to fearlessly suggest improvements in the world’s classic games, I have a couple of ways to make Monopoly even better — more equitable without having the income distribution settle into some happy socialist equilibrium where incentives are balanced against economic guarantees. (Where would be the fun in that?) [...]

]]> By: Albert Beerstein http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18110 Albert Beerstein Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:09:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18110 SIMPLE SOLUTIONS TO IMPROVE THE GAME of SOCCER Add a 2nd tier goal 6 feet higher and the same width etc on top of the 1st tier goal (present goal no changes to it). Change points to 3 points for the 1st tier goal and 1 point for the 2nd tier goal. The top goal height is now 14 feet. The goalie will still be able to block a lot of 2nd tier goals up to about 10-12 feet. The new 2nd tier goal will allow long range scoring shots. This is like a field goal in American football. If a game ends in a tie, then have an overtime period and: allow a sudden death victory score like American football or allow the winner to be determined by a final score at the end of the overtime period like American basketball. Allow free substitution like American basketball since a fresh body plays at a higher skill level. No other rules changes needs to be made. This should be tried first in a semi-pro league funded by the professional association. SIMPLE SOLUTIONS TO IMPROVE THE GAME of SOCCER

Add a 2nd tier goal 6 feet higher and the same width etc on top of the 1st tier goal (present goal no changes to it). Change points to 3 points for the 1st tier goal and 1 point for the 2nd tier goal. The top goal height is now 14 feet. The goalie will still be able to block a lot of 2nd tier goals up to about 10-12 feet. The new 2nd tier goal will allow long range scoring shots. This is like a field goal in American football. If a game ends in a tie, then have an overtime period and: allow a sudden death victory score like American football or allow the winner to be determined by a final score at the end of the overtime period like American basketball. Allow free substitution like American basketball since a fresh body plays at a higher skill level. No other rules changes needs to be made. This should be tried first in a semi-pro league funded by the professional association.

]]> By: Sam Gralla http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18111 Sam Gralla Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:33:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18111 I haven't checked in a while, so I haven't followed the comments and didn't read them all just now, but I'd just like to say that the poor officiating is all part of the appeal of soccer. It's like the real world--there is limited law enforcement, and you get away with what you can (within limits that reasonable people set for themselves). In life, you might speed if there are no cops around, but you wouldn't steal someone's car. In soccer, you might pull a shirt if ref isn't looking, but you never, for example, fail to be sportsmanlike and kick the ball out of bounds if an opposing player is injured. I like how soccer reflects life in this way; it feels more realistic and less game-like. Winning the game involves not only outsmarting the other team but also outsmarting the referee (and believe me, how referees make calls is heavily dependent on how the players act and interact with the referee, so this ads a nice additional psychological dimension to the game). I agree about pk's, but I don't think the solution is permanent sudden death. Maybe something like what was used in the MLS for the first few years of its existence--a hockey style dribbling penalty kick that requires more diverse skills that just a shot from the kicker. I haven’t checked in a while, so I haven’t followed the comments and didn’t read them all just now, but I’d just like to say that the poor officiating is all part of the appeal of soccer. It’s like the real world–there is limited law enforcement, and you get away with what you can (within limits that reasonable people set for themselves). In life, you might speed if there are no cops around, but you wouldn’t steal someone’s car. In soccer, you might pull a shirt if ref isn’t looking, but you never, for example, fail to be sportsmanlike and kick the ball out of bounds if an opposing player is injured. I like how soccer reflects life in this way; it feels more realistic and less game-like. Winning the game involves not only outsmarting the other team but also outsmarting the referee (and believe me, how referees make calls is heavily dependent on how the players act and interact with the referee, so this ads a nice additional psychological dimension to the game).

I agree about pk’s, but I don’t think the solution is permanent sudden death. Maybe something like what was used in the MLS for the first few years of its existence–a hockey style dribbling penalty kick that requires more diverse skills that just a shot from the kicker.

]]> By: Amara http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18142 Amara Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:49:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18142 That Italy-Germany game took my breath away. I am happy to see my neighbors over-the-top excited, but I honestly don't care who won. The skill and flair I saw in that game was thrilling. Both teams should feel proud. That Italy-Germany game took my breath away. I am happy to see my neighbors over-the-top excited, but I honestly don’t care who won. The skill and flair I saw in that game was thrilling. Both teams should feel proud.

]]> By: AL http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18140 AL Tue, 04 Jul 2006 04:35:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18140 Guys who do not like football ( The real one....the one actually played by using two feet kicking the ball....a ball that is round as a ball should be)You cannot start comparing two different sports and start combining good parts of each game and totally basterdizing the game. When you do that, you end up with American football. That game is the most boring I have ever watched. Some of you want 2 referees, and forcing the games into unlimited overtimes instead of Penalty Kicks. I do not agree we need 2 referees, but we absolutely need video replays. As per eliminating the Penalty kicks, and having multiple overtimes instead, youve got to be kidding! Let me remind you that unlike Ice Hockey, Football is only allowed a few substitutes. You will only understand what it takes to keep playing on, if you have played the sport yourself at a professional level. Guys who do not like football ( The real one….the one actually played by using two feet kicking the ball….a ball that is round as a ball should be)You cannot start comparing two different sports and start combining good parts of each game and totally basterdizing the game. When you do that, you end up with American football. That game is the most boring I have ever watched. Some of you want 2 referees, and forcing the games into unlimited overtimes instead of Penalty Kicks. I do not agree we need 2 referees, but we absolutely need video replays. As per eliminating the Penalty kicks, and having multiple overtimes instead, youve got to be kidding! Let me remind you that unlike Ice Hockey, Football is only allowed a few substitutes. You will only understand what it takes to keep playing on, if you have played the sport yourself at a professional level.

]]> By: Mark Srednicki http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18141 Mark Srednicki Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:12:53 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18141 You're right. I was only able to watch the first half, alas, but I agree that it was exciting. Portugal-England and France-Brazil were also exciting, even though we had a grand total of one goal in those games. You’re right. I was only able to watch the first half, alas, but I agree that it was exciting. Portugal-England and France-Brazil were also exciting, even though we had a grand total of one goal in those games.

]]> By: Robert http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18134 Robert Sat, 01 Jul 2006 08:31:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18134 See, it was not 0:0. I haven't seen such a thrilling match for years although it was not very aesthetic. And obviously, you don't want me to doubt the fairness and the well deservedness of a win in penalty shootout! See, it was not 0:0. I haven’t seen such a thrilling match for years although it was not very aesthetic. And obviously, you don’t want me to doubt the fairness and the well deservedness of a win in penalty shootout!

]]> By: Denis Barkats http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18135 Denis Barkats Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:10:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18135 Hi Sean and others, I haven't read all the comments yet on this post, I'm only on number 9, but already I think it's awsome how a physics blog on soccer can inflame virtual comments almost as much as plays on the green turfs of Germany. Sean, I wanted to tell you, thanks for posting this. I manage to watch a few select games downloaded in low-res to make it through the low south-pole satellite bandwidth and there are a few soccer fans down here. We get a kick thinking that South Pole is still represented at the World Cup (I'm french and the QUAD winter over is german) and we laugh like idiots imagining and historical France-Germany final. In any case, cheers to all soccer afficionados. Denis Hi Sean and others,

I haven’t read all the comments yet on this post, I’m only on number 9, but already I think it’s awsome how a physics blog on soccer can inflame virtual comments almost as much as plays on the green turfs of Germany.

Sean, I wanted to tell you, thanks for posting this. I manage to watch a few select games downloaded in low-res to make it through the low south-pole satellite bandwidth and there are a few soccer fans down here. We get a kick thinking that South Pole is still represented at the World Cup (I’m french and the QUAD winter over is german) and we laugh like idiots imagining and historical France-Germany final.
In any case, cheers to all soccer afficionados.

Denis

]]> By: adam http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18136 adam Sat, 01 Jul 2006 00:33:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18136 The change I'd make is retroactive punishment for dives that went unnoticed by the referee during play; the television footage is good enough now to catch quite a lot of them. Give the player a three game ban for something that he thinks that he got away with at the time and they might think a bit more carefully. It won't solve the problem (particularly in the Final itself, when worrying about the games to come isn't such a big deal, as they'll be in qualifying games towards getting into the <i>next</i> World Cup), but it might help to change the culture a bit. The change I’d make is retroactive punishment for dives that went unnoticed by the referee during play; the television footage is good enough now to catch quite a lot of them. Give the player a three game ban for something that he thinks that he got away with at the time and they might think a bit more carefully. It won’t solve the problem (particularly in the Final itself, when worrying about the games to come isn’t such a big deal, as they’ll be in qualifying games towards getting into the next World Cup), but it might help to change the culture a bit.

]]> By: Greco http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/comment-page-1/#comment-18137 Greco Fri, 30 Jun 2006 22:39:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/06/27/fiddling-with-the-world-cup/#comment-18137 <blockquote>In soccer, the attacker cannot receive the puck if past ALL DEFENDERS.</blockquote> Completely and utterly wrong. A player is offside if he is closer to the goal line than both the ball and TWO DEFENDERS at the moment of the pass. See, it is not even arcane. And offside trap is an effective tactic? Please. There's a reason why it is called the "dumb line" in Brazil. Refereeing mistakes always happen with it, both for and against, and using it against a team with players who are intelligent, fast, and/or skilled is suicidal. I had to pick my jaw off the floor when I saw Ghana playing with a very high trap against Brazil, a team that has players with all three characteristics. And before you mention Adriano's goal in response: watch the tape and you'll see the first wrong call was against an unmarked, just-the-keeper-to-beat Ronaldo, when the score was 0-0 and he was onside by a light-year. <blockquote>Most football fans remember famous shoouts, like...France-Brazil...1986</blockquote> Yes, I do remember that, it's one of my first footballing memories and the second most traumatic. The other is the surreal 1998 final, and those are the reasons I'm looking forward to tomorrow's match. And I don't agree with criticism of the shootouts. It is the ultimate test of fitness and emotional stability, it's exciting, and not a bad idea if your team has Taffarel or Dida in the goal.

In soccer, the attacker cannot receive the puck if past ALL DEFENDERS.

Completely and utterly wrong. A player is offside if he is closer to the goal line than both the ball and TWO DEFENDERS at the moment of the pass. See, it is not even arcane.

And offside trap is an effective tactic? Please. There’s a reason why it is called the “dumb line” in Brazil. Refereeing mistakes always happen with it, both for and against, and using it against a team with players who are intelligent, fast, and/or skilled is suicidal. I had to pick my jaw off the floor when I saw Ghana playing with a very high trap against Brazil, a team that has players with all three characteristics.

And before you mention Adriano’s goal in response: watch the tape and you’ll see the first wrong call was against an unmarked, just-the-keeper-to-beat Ronaldo, when the score was 0-0 and he was onside by a light-year.

Most football fans remember famous shoouts, like…France-Brazil…1986

Yes, I do remember that, it’s one of my first footballing memories and the second most traumatic. The other is the surreal 1998 final, and those are the reasons I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s match.
And I don’t agree with criticism of the shootouts. It is the ultimate test of fitness and emotional stability, it’s exciting, and not a bad idea if your team has Taffarel or Dida in the goal.

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