Comments on: Foreign Correspondent Checking In http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:03:47 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Belizean http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18334 Belizean Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:07:11 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18334 Here's another interesting tidbit. <a href="http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=news&subclass=general&story_id=502038&category=General&m=8&y=2006" rel="nofollow">Girls turned off by boys' own curriculum</a> Here’s another interesting tidbit.

Girls turned off by boys’ own curriculum

]]> By: Supernova http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18424 Supernova Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:35:36 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18424 Here's a link to Barres' opinion piece in <i>Nature</i> (subscription may be required): <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v442/n7099/full/442133a.html" rel="nofollow">Does Gender Matter?</a> Here’s a link to Barres’ opinion piece in Nature (subscription may be required):

Does Gender Matter?

]]> By: Amara http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18422 Amara Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:15:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18422 I wish the changelings would write a book. They have a unique perspective that I think is very valuable to answer these questions. When this topic <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/01/14/women-in-physics-i/" rel="nofollow">appeared before</a>, I proposed (#63) a similar idea to what the above writer described, thinking to a good friend of mine who made the gender change in the other direction (male to female). I wish the changelings would write a book. They have a unique perspective that I think is very valuable to answer these questions. When this topic appeared before, I proposed (#63) a similar idea to what the above writer described, thinking to a good friend of mine who made the gender change in the other direction (male to female).

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18421 Arun Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:28:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18421 Further: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15023082.htm Further:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15023082.htm

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18420 Arun Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:24:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18420 http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2189555 Short news-item, reproduced in full below: <blockquote>July 14, 2006  TRANSGENDERED SCIENTIST SAYS BIAS AGAINST WOMEN EXISTS Stanford University neurobiologist Ben Barres has a unique perspective on the gender wars in science, as he has spent time on both sides of the fence. Barres writes about his experiences in an article in this week's Nature. Now living as a man, Barres says he was received quite differently when he was trying to break into the scientific world as a woman. When he was Barbara, he was discouraged from attending MIT, and people thought he must have had a boyfriend who helped him with difficult math. Later, when living as Ben, Barres overhead another scientist say that "Ben Barres gave a great seminar today, but his work is much better than his sister's [Barbara's] work." Barres argues that it's not that women are inherently less interested or talented in science, but that they are held back by bigotry. </blockquote> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2189555

Short news-item, reproduced in full below:

July 14, 2006

 TRANSGENDERED SCIENTIST SAYS BIAS AGAINST WOMEN EXISTS Stanford University neurobiologist Ben Barres has a unique perspective on the gender wars in science, as he has spent time on both sides of the fence. Barres writes about his experiences in an article in this week’s Nature. Now living as a man, Barres says he was received quite differently when he was trying to break into the scientific world as a woman. When he was Barbara, he was discouraged from attending MIT, and people thought he must have had a boyfriend who helped him with difficult math. Later, when living as Ben, Barres overhead another scientist say that “Ben Barres gave a great seminar today, but his work is much better than his sister’s [Barbara's] work.” Barres argues that it’s not that women are inherently less interested or talented in science, but that they are held back by bigotry.

]]> By: Supernova http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18323 Supernova Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:21:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18323 No, Bob, I'm with you in the nurture camp on this one, but I gotta agree with Belizean that you're far oversimplifying the claim that anyone is "inherently" anything. I don't think anyone on the nature side is trying to deny that female physicists exist, or argue that they exist in spite of a complete lack of interest in the subject. It doesn't do us any good to traffic in absolutes. No, Bob, I’m with you in the nurture camp on this one, but I gotta agree with Belizean that you’re far oversimplifying the claim that anyone is “inherently” anything. I don’t think anyone on the nature side is trying to deny that female physicists exist, or argue that they exist in spite of a complete lack of interest in the subject. It doesn’t do us any good to traffic in absolutes.

]]> By: Belizean http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18322 Belizean Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:50:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18322 <blockquote>If women are inherently disinterested in physics, then none of them are interested.</blockquote> Good grief. By the same reasoning, if women as a group are inherently disinterested in romantic relationships with other women, then none of them are interested such relationships. Or, if women are inherently shorter than men, then none are taller. Inherent disinterest like any biological property would <i>not</i> be uniformly distributed. To say that women as a group are inherently disinterested simply means that the median point of the disinterest curve among females is higher than the corresponding median for males.

If women are inherently disinterested in physics, then none of them are interested.

Good grief. By the same reasoning, if women as a group are inherently disinterested in romantic relationships with other women, then none of them are interested such relationships.

Or, if women are inherently shorter than men, then none are taller.

Inherent disinterest like any biological property would not be uniformly distributed. To say that women as a group are inherently disinterested simply means that the median point of the disinterest curve among females is higher than the corresponding median for males.

]]> By: Bob http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18325 Bob Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:51:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18325 Supernova, Belezean has stated in #101 " The question is, 'Why the low number of female physics undergrads?' Nature(inherent disinterest) or Nurture (subtle discrimination)?" If women are inherently disinterested in physics, then none of them are interested. Furthermore, what percentage of men show an interest in physics enough to take it up in school? Is it 100%? I think I am making a strong pitch on behalf on nurture and you might not agree? Supernova,

Belezean has stated in #101 ” The question is, ‘Why the low number of female physics undergrads?’ Nature(inherent disinterest) or Nurture (subtle discrimination)?”

If women are inherently disinterested in physics, then none of them are interested.

Furthermore, what percentage of men show an interest in physics enough to take it up in school? Is it 100%?

I think I am making a strong pitch on behalf on nurture and you might not agree?

]]> By: Supernova http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18324 Supernova Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:39:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18324 Huh? Not following you, Bob. Huh? Not following you, Bob.

]]> By: Bob http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/comment-page-2/#comment-18326 Bob Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:32:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/04/foreign-correspondent-checking-in/#comment-18326 If the problem is nurture, then data will be shown on a percentage that does not show an absolute...60/40...70/30..even 80/20...or 90/10 all show nurture as the cause. Nature displays itself like this: What percentage of humans can fly using their bodies only? Zero. They have no inherent capabilities. What percentage of snakes have hands, feet and wings? Zero again. What percentage of parrots can speak a language? According to linguists the answer is zero again. The parrot can mimic sounds but will not fly off into the forest, teach its fellow birds to speak nor will its language learned go through any history of weakening of consonants, shifting of vowels, dropping prefixes and suffixes and then building up new prefixes and suffixes with the following generations. Humans do it involuntarily. If the problem is nurture, then data will be shown on a percentage that does not show an absolute…60/40…70/30..even 80/20…or 90/10 all show nurture as the cause.

Nature displays itself like this: What percentage of humans can fly using their bodies only? Zero. They have no inherent capabilities. What percentage of snakes have hands, feet and wings? Zero again.

What percentage of parrots can speak a language? According to linguists the answer is zero again. The parrot can mimic sounds but will not fly off into the forest, teach its fellow birds to speak nor will its language learned go through any history of weakening of consonants, shifting of vowels, dropping prefixes and suffixes and then building up new prefixes and suffixes with the following generations. Humans do it involuntarily.

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