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	<title>Comments on: Interim Roadmap Report</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18507</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18507</guid>
		<description>Hi Shantenu,

I agree with you, although HEPAP isn&#039;t the right forum for that. NASA used to have a nice little program doing some of the things you&#039;re mentioning, but recent cuts have decimated it. I wrote about this a little while ago, if it is useful at all

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/05/22/from-quantum-to-cosmos-i/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Shantenu,</p>
<p>I agree with you, although HEPAP isn&#8217;t the right forum for that. NASA used to have a nice little program doing some of the things you&#8217;re mentioning, but recent cuts have decimated it. I wrote about this a little while ago, if it is useful at all</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/05/22/from-quantum-to-cosmos-i/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/05/22/from-quantum-to-cosmos-i/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shantanu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18498</link>
		<dc:creator>Shantanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18498</guid>
		<description>Hi
Joanne,
I would like to add to something to what Tony said.
Besides these astrophysical experiments in searching for dark energy, there should be more
experimental tests of fundamental  gravity (such as precision tests of EEP, lunar laser ranging tests of strong equivalence principle, tests for deviation from Newton&#039;s law at small
distances, high precision &#039;COW&#039; [Collela-Overhause-Werner] experiments, testing the
gravitational force on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.phy.duke.edu/~phillips/gravity/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; antimatter &lt;/a&gt; , testing if  Pioneer anomaly is correct and so on.
Of course not  all these experiments may not solve the dark energy problem. But if dark energy
is really due to &quot;modified gravity&quot;, why not design/invest in laboratory based experiments
to test/probe gravity more precisely. (note that there is a also a tiny community of physicists
who believe that &quot;dark matter &quot; could also be due to modified gravity) . this way we could at least rule out modified gravity as amn explanation.  But of course
it is possible that all the experiments which I mention do not come under the purview of
HEPAP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
Joanne,<br />
I would like to add to something to what Tony said.<br />
Besides these astrophysical experiments in searching for dark energy, there should be more<br />
experimental tests of fundamental  gravity (such as precision tests of EEP, lunar laser ranging tests of strong equivalence principle, tests for deviation from Newton&#8217;s law at small<br />
distances, high precision &#8216;COW&#8217; [Collela-Overhause-Werner] experiments, testing the<br />
gravitational force on <a href="http://www.phy.duke.edu/~phillips/gravity/" rel="nofollow"> antimatter </a> , testing if  Pioneer anomaly is correct and so on.<br />
Of course not  all these experiments may not solve the dark energy problem. But if dark energy<br />
is really due to &#8220;modified gravity&#8221;, why not design/invest in laboratory based experiments<br />
to test/probe gravity more precisely. (note that there is a also a tiny community of physicists<br />
who believe that &#8220;dark matter &#8221; could also be due to modified gravity) . this way we could at least rule out modified gravity as amn explanation.  But of course<br />
it is possible that all the experiments which I mention do not come under the purview of<br />
HEPAP.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18506</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18506</guid>
		<description>graviton383 said &quot;... Beck&#039;s idea for any Dark Energy measurement has run into a number of troublesome issues; see Moran &amp; Jaeckel in astro-ph/0605711 and their Refs. 2-5. ...&quot;.

To the extent that the &quot;troublesome issues&quot; are in the form of No-Go theorems:

the way to resolve whether or not Beck&#039;s idea is valid is NOT to have debates about No-Go theorems (a lot of interesting physics has come about by regarding No-Go theorems, not as signals to give up, but as telling us to ask which of their assumptions need to be changed in order to evade them - for example, the use of Lie superalgebras to evade Coleman-Mandula No-Go restrictions on constructions with ordinary Lie algebras);

but

the way to resolve whether or not Beck&#039;s idea is valid IS to DO EXPERIMENTS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

That is what Warburton is doing, and maybe it will show that Beck&#039;s ideas are correct, maybe it will indicate what types of superconductors should be used, and maybe it will show that Beck&#039;s ideas are wrong,
but
whatever the results, they are guaranteed to be interesting,
and
cheap (less than 1/40 of the $20 million threshold for HEPAP to even consider it.

If (long shot) Beck turns out to be correct and Warburton shows how to control Dark Energy, then it is fair to hope (but not guaranteed) that people will use Dark Energy for constructive purposes.

Tony Smith
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>graviton383 said &#8220;&#8230; Beck&#8217;s idea for any Dark Energy measurement has run into a number of troublesome issues; see Moran &amp; Jaeckel in astro-ph/0605711 and their Refs. 2-5. &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>To the extent that the &#8220;troublesome issues&#8221; are in the form of No-Go theorems:</p>
<p>the way to resolve whether or not Beck&#8217;s idea is valid is NOT to have debates about No-Go theorems (a lot of interesting physics has come about by regarding No-Go theorems, not as signals to give up, but as telling us to ask which of their assumptions need to be changed in order to evade them &#8211; for example, the use of Lie superalgebras to evade Coleman-Mandula No-Go restrictions on constructions with ordinary Lie algebras);</p>
<p>but</p>
<p>the way to resolve whether or not Beck&#8217;s idea is valid IS to DO EXPERIMENTS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.</p>
<p>That is what Warburton is doing, and maybe it will show that Beck&#8217;s ideas are correct, maybe it will indicate what types of superconductors should be used, and maybe it will show that Beck&#8217;s ideas are wrong,<br />
but<br />
whatever the results, they are guaranteed to be interesting,<br />
and<br />
cheap (less than 1/40 of the $20 million threshold for HEPAP to even consider it.</p>
<p>If (long shot) Beck turns out to be correct and Warburton shows how to control Dark Energy, then it is fair to hope (but not guaranteed) that people will use Dark Energy for constructive purposes.</p>
<p>Tony Smith<br />
<a href="http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/" rel="nofollow">http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Quasar9</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18499</link>
		<dc:creator>Quasar9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18499</guid>
		<description>Hi Graviton383, I think you missed the point of the question.
The Question was not whether Dark Energy exists (or not) in Space, but whether the US military might be working on creating Dark Energy on Earth. As for dark energy existing in space - well let us open this can of worms - what do you call dark energy?, the forces of the evil Empire: Darth Vader in the Dark Star, or maybe even a blackhole that syphons garbage from this universe into a parallel one - you know incinerator style, or much much more like the tornadoes which clean any pollution on their path across the US, you know vaccum cleaner style, and throw cows, pigs, and even fish on some other part of the farm, state or planet or even &#039;parallel&#039; world.

PS - Do Nuclear warheads count as dark energy producers?
PPS - Never mind anti-matter, can anti-gravity be produced, and I don&#039;t just mean conventional rocket or Space Shuttle propulsion systems</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Graviton383, I think you missed the point of the question.<br />
The Question was not whether Dark Energy exists (or not) in Space, but whether the US military might be working on creating Dark Energy on Earth. As for dark energy existing in space &#8211; well let us open this can of worms &#8211; what do you call dark energy?, the forces of the evil Empire: Darth Vader in the Dark Star, or maybe even a blackhole that syphons garbage from this universe into a parallel one &#8211; you know incinerator style, or much much more like the tornadoes which clean any pollution on their path across the US, you know vaccum cleaner style, and throw cows, pigs, and even fish on some other part of the farm, state or planet or even &#8216;parallel&#8217; world.</p>
<p>PS &#8211; Do Nuclear warheads count as dark energy producers?<br />
PPS &#8211; Never mind anti-matter, can anti-gravity be produced, and I don&#8217;t just mean conventional rocket or Space Shuttle propulsion systems</p>
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		<title>By: graviton383</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18497</link>
		<dc:creator>graviton383</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18497</guid>
		<description>Tony and Quasar9:

Apparently Beck&#039;s idea for any Dark Energy measurement has run into a number of troublesome issues; see Moran &amp; Jaeckel in astro-ph/0605711 and their Refs. 2-5.
It seems that this is not what we are after in a Dark Energy measurement..Of course we should all be reminded, as Sean will tell us, that it is not obvious whether or not Dark Energy (as a new form of matter) exists and even if it does it may be unrelated to the cosmological constant or the `vacuum energy&#039; of ordinary field theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony and Quasar9:</p>
<p>Apparently Beck&#8217;s idea for any Dark Energy measurement has run into a number of troublesome issues; see Moran &amp; Jaeckel in astro-ph/0605711 and their Refs. 2-5.<br />
It seems that this is not what we are after in a Dark Energy measurement..Of course we should all be reminded, as Sean will tell us, that it is not obvious whether or not Dark Energy (as a new form of matter) exists and even if it does it may be unrelated to the cosmological constant or the `vacuum energy&#8217; of ordinary field theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Quasar9</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18501</link>
		<dc:creator>Quasar9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18501</guid>
		<description>Though of course I hope all Dark Energy is related to Astro Physics whether its $20.oo or $20million projects. Imagine letting your military walk around loose with that kinda energy on Earth. lol!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though of course I hope all Dark Energy is related to Astro Physics whether its $20.oo or $20million projects. Imagine letting your military walk around loose with that kinda energy on Earth. lol!</p>
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		<title>By: Quasar9</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18500</link>
		<dc:creator>Quasar9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18500</guid>
		<description>Well JoAnne comments like your lastone certainly cup up on my &#039;radar&#039;
However, I feel you were a little dismissive to Tony&#039;s query. After all increase the budget by a magnitude of 40 and the question would read:
&lt;strong&gt;&quot;Is there any USA interest in non-astrophysical Dark Energy experimental work&quot;?&lt;/strong&gt;
Have a nice day! as they say in the USA!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well JoAnne comments like your lastone certainly cup up on my &#8216;radar&#8217;<br />
However, I feel you were a little dismissive to Tony&#8217;s query. After all increase the budget by a magnitude of 40 and the question would read:<br />
<strong>&#8220;Is there any USA interest in non-astrophysical Dark Energy experimental work&#8221;?</strong><br />
Have a nice day! as they say in the USA!</p>
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		<title>By: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18502</link>
		<dc:creator>JoAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18502</guid>
		<description>Tony,

I am not aware of any such projects in the US, but let me preface this comment with the remark that our committee is only charged at looking at experiments that cost $20 Million or more.  Anything as inexpensive as you mention is way below our radar screen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony,</p>
<p>I am not aware of any such projects in the US, but let me preface this comment with the remark that our committee is only charged at looking at experiments that cost $20 Million or more.  Anything as inexpensive as you mention is way below our radar screen.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18508</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18508</guid>
		<description>JoAnne, with respect to Dark Energy experiment/observation, you mention &quot;... supernova surveys, baryon acoustic oscillations, weak lensing, and cluster surveys ...&quot;. Those proposals seem to all be astrophysical in nature.

Is there any USA interest in non-astrophysical Dark Energy experimental work such as the Josephson Junction experiment recently begun by Warburton in London?

It is It is EPSRC Grant Reference: EP/D029783/1,
&quot;Externally-Shunted High-Gap Josephson Junctions: Design, Fabrication and Noise Measurements&quot;,
starting 1 February 2006 and ending 31 January 2009 with Â£ Value: 242,348 ?

Roughly it is based on Christian Beck&#039;s idea (see astro-ph/0512327 ) that If vacuum fluctuations are responsible for Dark Energy then Josephson Junctions might detect and study it.

For details of Warburton&#039;s experimental work, see the web page at
http://gow.epsrc.ac.uk/ViewGrant.aspx?GrantRef=EP/D029783/1

Isn&#039;t it the kind of thing that might have such a high payoff that it is worth a gamble (especially if the cost is less than half a million US dollars) ?
Even a negative result would be useful, as it would rule out some types of Dark Energy models.

Tony Smith
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoAnne, with respect to Dark Energy experiment/observation, you mention &#8220;&#8230; supernova surveys, baryon acoustic oscillations, weak lensing, and cluster surveys &#8230;&#8221;. Those proposals seem to all be astrophysical in nature.</p>
<p>Is there any USA interest in non-astrophysical Dark Energy experimental work such as the Josephson Junction experiment recently begun by Warburton in London?</p>
<p>It is It is EPSRC Grant Reference: EP/D029783/1,<br />
&#8220;Externally-Shunted High-Gap Josephson Junctions: Design, Fabrication and Noise Measurements&#8221;,<br />
starting 1 February 2006 and ending 31 January 2009 with Â£ Value: 242,348 ?</p>
<p>Roughly it is based on Christian Beck&#8217;s idea (see astro-ph/0512327 ) that If vacuum fluctuations are responsible for Dark Energy then Josephson Junctions might detect and study it.</p>
<p>For details of Warburton&#8217;s experimental work, see the web page at<br />
<a href="http://gow.epsrc.ac.uk/ViewGrant.aspx?GrantRef=EP/D029783/1" rel="nofollow">http://gow.epsrc.ac.uk/ViewGrant.aspx?GrantRef=EP/D029783/1</a></p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it the kind of thing that might have such a high payoff that it is worth a gamble (especially if the cost is less than half a million US dollars) ?<br />
Even a negative result would be useful, as it would rule out some types of Dark Energy models.</p>
<p>Tony Smith<br />
<a href="http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/" rel="nofollow">http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</a></p>
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		<title>By: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18505</link>
		<dc:creator>JoAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 19:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18505</guid>
		<description>Nigel,

There are a variety of ways to measure the variables which parameterize dark energy:  supernova surveys, baryon acoustic oscillations, weak lensing, and cluster surveys.  From ground-based experiments or space-based experiments.  Each technique is at a different stage of development (proven ability) and each has different features in terms of the precision with which it measures the parameters.  Our job is to figure out which experiment(s) gives the best measurement of the parameters at an affordable cost.  It&#039;s tricky.

On the theoretical side, I think it&#039;s safe to say that it&#039;s fair game in explaining the source of dark energy.  Many different options are being explored.  We need the next generation of experiments to learn more.

There is a very nice Dark Energy Task Force report (sponsored by HEPAP) that was &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/05/18/dark-energy-task-force-report/&quot;&gt;summarized&lt;/a&gt; by Risa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nigel,</p>
<p>There are a variety of ways to measure the variables which parameterize dark energy:  supernova surveys, baryon acoustic oscillations, weak lensing, and cluster surveys.  From ground-based experiments or space-based experiments.  Each technique is at a different stage of development (proven ability) and each has different features in terms of the precision with which it measures the parameters.  Our job is to figure out which experiment(s) gives the best measurement of the parameters at an affordable cost.  It&#8217;s tricky.</p>
<p>On the theoretical side, I think it&#8217;s safe to say that it&#8217;s fair game in explaining the source of dark energy.  Many different options are being explored.  We need the next generation of experiments to learn more.</p>
<p>There is a very nice Dark Energy Task Force report (sponsored by HEPAP) that was <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/05/18/dark-energy-task-force-report/">summarized</a> by Risa.</p>
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		<title>By: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18503</link>
		<dc:creator>JoAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 19:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18503</guid>
		<description>Tony,

You are correct in that the US got a really good deal in the negotiated contract with CERN management for our contribution to the LHC.  And it is a problem for future projects such as the ILC.  Some in our government are pleased with the bargin and wonder if we can get away with it again, while current CERN management is somewhat resentful.  The amount of our contribution to the LHC is stipulated in a signed contract, agreed to by both sides, and is thus a done deal and can&#039;t be changed.

Discussion is just beginning on how this tension might be eased for the benefit of future projects.  One idea that has just been floated is that the US could contribute substantially to the LHC upgrade project.  There&#039;s alot of work to do to make this happen, and I don&#039;t know what our funding agencies and government would think about it, but it sounds like an interesting idea in my book and worth pursuing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony,</p>
<p>You are correct in that the US got a really good deal in the negotiated contract with CERN management for our contribution to the LHC.  And it is a problem for future projects such as the ILC.  Some in our government are pleased with the bargin and wonder if we can get away with it again, while current CERN management is somewhat resentful.  The amount of our contribution to the LHC is stipulated in a signed contract, agreed to by both sides, and is thus a done deal and can&#8217;t be changed.</p>
<p>Discussion is just beginning on how this tension might be eased for the benefit of future projects.  One idea that has just been floated is that the US could contribute substantially to the LHC upgrade project.  There&#8217;s alot of work to do to make this happen, and I don&#8217;t know what our funding agencies and government would think about it, but it sounds like an interesting idea in my book and worth pursuing.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18504</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18504</guid>
		<description>A July 2006 Physics Today article on pages 20-21 by Toni Feder said in part:
&quot;... CERN chief rethinks LHC fees
... Robert Aymar, director general of CERN, ... has been quoted ... in French and Swiss newspapers ... saying ... it ... is &quot;stingy&quot; and &quot;unfair&quot; of the US not to contribute to the operating costs of the Large Hadron Collider ...
The US put in $200 million toward building the LHC, plus $331 million for two of the experiments. ...
says Aymar, &quot;... it&#039;s a very low percentage of the total cost of the LHC&quot; -  an estimated ... $6.6 billion ...
Barry Barish, who heads the planning process for the International Linear Collider ... says ... &quot;... the US wouldn&#039;t get a role in management. That&#039;s a hard sell.&quot; ...
Aymar ... says ... &quot;It will be difficult to globalize the ILC if we don&#039;t make progress in the globalization of the LHC.&quot; ...&quot;.

Would HEPAP be in favor of:
1 - LHC giving the USA a role in management; and
2 - the USA contributing substantially to LHC operating costs ?

It seems to me that would create good will and set a precedent for a truly international ILC.

Tony Smith
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A July 2006 Physics Today article on pages 20-21 by Toni Feder said in part:<br />
&#8220;&#8230; CERN chief rethinks LHC fees<br />
&#8230; Robert Aymar, director general of CERN, &#8230; has been quoted &#8230; in French and Swiss newspapers &#8230; saying &#8230; it &#8230; is &#8220;stingy&#8221; and &#8220;unfair&#8221; of the US not to contribute to the operating costs of the Large Hadron Collider &#8230;<br />
The US put in $200 million toward building the LHC, plus $331 million for two of the experiments. &#8230;<br />
says Aymar, &#8220;&#8230; it&#8217;s a very low percentage of the total cost of the LHC&#8221; &#8211;  an estimated &#8230; $6.6 billion &#8230;<br />
Barry Barish, who heads the planning process for the International Linear Collider &#8230; says &#8230; &#8220;&#8230; the US wouldn&#8217;t get a role in management. That&#8217;s a hard sell.&#8221; &#8230;<br />
Aymar &#8230; says &#8230; &#8220;It will be difficult to globalize the ILC if we don&#8217;t make progress in the globalization of the LHC.&#8221; &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>Would HEPAP be in favor of:<br />
1 &#8211; LHC giving the USA a role in management; and<br />
2 &#8211; the USA contributing substantially to LHC operating costs ?</p>
<p>It seems to me that would create good will and set a precedent for a truly international ILC.</p>
<p>Tony Smith<br />
<a href="http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/" rel="nofollow">http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/</a></p>
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		<title>By: nigel cook</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18511</link>
		<dc:creator>nigel cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18511</guid>
		<description>(sorry, my paragraph 3 should read &quot;...deceleration of the...&quot;, not &quot;acceleration&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sorry, my paragraph 3 should read &#8220;&#8230;deceleration of the&#8230;&#8221;, not &#8220;acceleration&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: nigel cook</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18512</link>
		<dc:creator>nigel cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18512</guid>
		<description>JoAnne,

I hope you won&#039;t mind asking how the dark energy surveys are going to work, what if anything definite they hope to find, etc?

Also, has anyone to your knowledge even considered the redshift effect on the energy of the gauge bosons presumed to be exchanged in causing quantum gravitation?

If these exchanged gauge bosons are red-shifted (by cosmic expansion) over large distances of exchange, gravity will be weakened, so there will be little or no no observable gravitational acceleration of the expansion of the universe?

So the empirical Hubble law will hold with no slowing down on expansion velocities at extreme distances.  Which is just what is observed...  A simple modification of general relativity is needed, not CC/dark energy.

I can&#039;t understand why Occam&#039;s razor seems to be ignored.  Like caloric and phlogiston, and also like material aether, dark energy is ad hoc and not a falsifiable scientific prediction as such.  Sorry if this sounds like bitter attack on dark energy theories (arxiv deleted my paper and cern doc server won&#039;t allow my paper there to be updated now, nor other ext papers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoAnne,</p>
<p>I hope you won&#8217;t mind asking how the dark energy surveys are going to work, what if anything definite they hope to find, etc?</p>
<p>Also, has anyone to your knowledge even considered the redshift effect on the energy of the gauge bosons presumed to be exchanged in causing quantum gravitation?</p>
<p>If these exchanged gauge bosons are red-shifted (by cosmic expansion) over large distances of exchange, gravity will be weakened, so there will be little or no no observable gravitational acceleration of the expansion of the universe?</p>
<p>So the empirical Hubble law will hold with no slowing down on expansion velocities at extreme distances.  Which is just what is observed&#8230;  A simple modification of general relativity is needed, not CC/dark energy.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t understand why Occam&#8217;s razor seems to be ignored.  Like caloric and phlogiston, and also like material aether, dark energy is ad hoc and not a falsifiable scientific prediction as such.  Sorry if this sounds like bitter attack on dark energy theories (arxiv deleted my paper and cern doc server won&#8217;t allow my paper there to be updated now, nor other ext papers).</p>
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		<title>By: Quasar9</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18509</link>
		<dc:creator>Quasar9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18509</guid>
		<description>Wow JoAnne! you definitely know how to make physics sexy and exciting. There is a plethora of interests to be created and Science to be re-searched, as long as people like you can generate a wider interest on all &lt;strong&gt;physic&lt;/strong&gt;al &lt;strong&gt;matter&lt;/strong&gt;s  among future grads and the general public. PS Congrats to Cosmic Variance &amp; Real Climate for &#039;hitting&#039; The Top of The Charts (hits parade).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow JoAnne! you definitely know how to make physics sexy and exciting. There is a plethora of interests to be created and Science to be re-searched, as long as people like you can generate a wider interest on all <strong>physic</strong>al <strong>matter</strong>s  among future grads and the general public. PS Congrats to Cosmic Variance &amp; Real Climate for &#8216;hitting&#8217; The Top of The Charts (hits parade).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Not Even Wrong &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Quick Links</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/comment-page-1/#comment-18510</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Even Wrong &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Quick Links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/07/06/interim-roadmap-report/#comment-18510</guid>
		<description>[...] HEPAP is meeting today and tomorrow, the presentations given at the meeting are available here.Â  JoAnne Hewett is there and has a posting on Cosmic Variance. The Seed article with various physicist&#8217;s views about what to expect at the LHC that was discussed here earlier is now available online. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] HEPAP is meeting today and tomorrow, the presentations given at the meeting are available here.Â  JoAnne Hewett is there and has a posting on Cosmic Variance. The Seed article with various physicist&#8217;s views about what to expect at the LHC that was discussed here earlier is now available online. [...]</p>
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