Comments on: The US is Next to Last http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:14:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: JoAnne http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19896 JoAnne Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:20:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19896 Mr. Norris, It is frightening, but there is no need to be so apologetic. Just do whatever you can during your life to help others and to affect change. Mr. Norris,

It is frightening, but there is no need to be so apologetic. Just do whatever you can during your life to help others and to affect change.

]]> By: mr. norris http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19862 mr. norris Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:30:17 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19862 Noticed another little mistake- "expunges idiots" should be "expunges rationality" . And I do mean that. Noticed another little mistake- “expunges idiots” should be “expunges rationality” . And I do mean that.

]]> By: mr. norris http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19878 mr. norris Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:46:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19878 Stewart- sorry. Stewart- sorry.

]]> By: mr. norris http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19877 mr. norris Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:44:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19877 This poll is very frightening to me, being an American. To the other countries, I'm sorry, I really am. I did not vote for Bush. American ignorance has long scared me, and lo and behold, we now see it with all its glory. To the "smart people" out there, "America" by Jon Stewa and "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins are great books. they should be mandatory in the U.S. P.S. I'm sorry, really sorry. Our country expunges idiots like no other. This poll is very frightening to me, being an American. To the other countries, I’m sorry, I really am. I did not vote for Bush. American ignorance has long scared me, and lo and behold, we now see it with all its glory. To the “smart people” out there, “America” by Jon Stewa and “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins are great books. they should be mandatory in the U.S.

P.S. I’m sorry, really sorry. Our country expunges idiots like no other.

]]> By: P. Edward Murray http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19884 P. Edward Murray Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:00:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19884 I'm an American and Roman Catholic. Most of these folks are not Catholic. Most of America has been and still is very much Protestant. These fundamentalist types are Protestant. So don't blame me. Catholics generally believe that Evolution is the term for how God creates life on Earth. Most of these Fundamentalists like to forget the very first sentence in Genesis: "In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth" Well, doesn't that include everything even the scientific laws that we have discovered? I think so. I’m an American and Roman Catholic. Most of these folks are not Catholic. Most of America has been and still is very much Protestant. These fundamentalist types are Protestant. So don’t blame me.

Catholics generally believe that Evolution is the term for how God creates life on Earth.

Most of these Fundamentalists like to forget the very first sentence in Genesis:

“In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth”

Well, doesn’t that include everything even the scientific laws that we have discovered?

I think so.

]]> By: Alice http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19886 Alice Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:43:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19886 New thought! You know that Sistine Chapel of Michaelangelo's? How about we have Darwin touching the finger of Adam? Would that bring everyone into the fold? Well, maybe not George, but he's a bit 'tetched' you know--but it might get Behe? You think? Alice New thought! You know that Sistine Chapel of Michaelangelo’s? How about we have Darwin touching the finger of Adam? Would that bring everyone into the fold? Well, maybe not George, but he’s a bit ‘tetched’ you know–but it might get Behe? You think?
Alice

]]> By: Alice http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19885 Alice Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:34:11 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19885 Thanks for publishing this--I am a (very) senior citizen and i now have time to pursue my reading of Zimmer, Dennett, Gould, etc. (and Loren Eiseley--love the way he wrote). I try to share this with everyone I come across, including my doctor, dentist, and they all look at me as if I should be stepped on! Even my kids (now 50 and 60) say "Ohh-Mo-th-er! I guess the trouble is there is no money ion it. We need a really cute poster or blog that shows Grandfather Darwin blessing the toddlers. Alice Thanks for publishing this–I am a (very) senior citizen and i now have time to pursue my reading of Zimmer, Dennett, Gould, etc. (and Loren Eiseley–love the way he wrote). I try to share this with everyone I come across, including my doctor, dentist, and they all look at me as if I should be stepped on!
Even my kids (now 50 and 60) say “Ohh-Mo-th-er! I guess the trouble is there is no money ion it. We need a really cute poster or blog that shows Grandfather Darwin blessing the toddlers.
Alice

]]> By: Quasar9 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19880 Quasar9 Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:04:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19880 <b>Is memory the same as conscious?</b> I know springs have 'memory' and can (or may) return to some previous state, and there are many new materials which have this property ... but I've yet to see a guitar string consciously get up of its own volition and play (or humm) a tune - it usually requires some outside (external) force to make it vibrate (oscillate) or the hand of a Maestro to strum a virtuoso tune or melody! So who is pulling your strings??? or yanking your chain? Is memory the same as conscious?

I know springs have ‘memory’ and can (or may) return to some previous state, and there are many new materials which have this property …

but I’ve yet to see a guitar string consciously get up of its own volition and play (or humm) a tune -
it usually requires some outside (external) force to make it vibrate (oscillate) or the hand of a Maestro to strum a virtuoso tune or melody!

So who is pulling your strings??? or yanking your chain?

]]> By: The one intelligently designed http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19882 The one intelligently designed Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:18:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19882 And sorry I forgot to remark on your remark of civilized countries. When asked "what do you think of the western civilization?" Gandhi replied, " I think it would be a great idea". Just wanted to let you know there are other human beings on this planet with quite different views than yours. And sorry I forgot to remark on your remark of civilized countries. When asked “what do you think of the western civilization?” Gandhi replied, ” I think it would be a great idea”. Just wanted to let you know there are other human beings on this planet with quite different views than yours.

]]> By: The one intelligently designed http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19881 The one intelligently designed Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:12:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19881 To Travis, Whats the point of guessing about things you certainly have no knowledge. In Pakistan evolution is taught in grade 9 and 10, and as part of a compulsary course. Then if you opt for biology, you have to put up with this crap, for the remaining 2 more years of high school To Travis,
Whats the point of guessing about things you certainly have no knowledge. In Pakistan evolution is taught in grade 9 and 10, and as part of a compulsary course. Then if you opt for biology, you have to put up with this crap, for the remaining 2 more years of high school

]]> By: Joe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19879 Joe Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:38:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19879 Actually, I'm amazed Ireland didn't do better. I can't say I've ever heard anyone there expressing a counter-evolution opinion. I suppose thats an effect of taking a spread of ages, as mentioned by an earlier poster. It would be very interesting to see this broken down by age. In particular the I'd be interested to see what this chart looks like for the 18-35 age group. Actually, I’m amazed Ireland didn’t do better. I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone there expressing a counter-evolution opinion.

I suppose thats an effect of taking a spread of ages, as mentioned by an earlier poster. It would be very interesting to see this broken down by age.

In particular the I’d be interested to see what this chart looks like for the 18-35 age group.

]]> By: Quasar9 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19889 Quasar9 Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:02:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19889 Well at the risk of blowing my chances of a 'hot' date: HuMan was fashioned from mud, would be consistent with the sciences and evolution Life was breathed into HuMan, would further be consistent with all the sciences, since without air or very sophisticated means to produce air life can be short HuMan was endowed with intellect to differentiate from other animate beings, is again consistent with Science, at least in <em><b>most</em></b> cases. <em>exceptions to the rule apply</em> Things (massless particles? or essence?) exist in other dimensions which we have not yet revealed in our 3D + T, (or 6D aeronautical referencing) seems to be a consistent theory in <em>both</em> Physics & Religion. So JoAnne, in a vain attempt at flattery, may I suggest the question should be rephrased: "Do people regardless of religious inclination, political belief, sexual bent, education or philosophical orientation, believe there are things which we have not yet revealed in our spacetime dimensions - which are flux like energy states, or life forces even" <em>and maybe you'd get 100% agreement.</em> <em>Except for the 'exception to the rule' who will argue against nothing just to prove the exception (the rule).</em> Well at the risk of blowing my chances of a ‘hot’ date:

HuMan was fashioned from mud, would be consistent with the sciences and evolution
Life was breathed into HuMan, would further be consistent with all the sciences, since without air or very sophisticated means to produce air life can be short
HuMan was endowed with intellect to differentiate from other animate beings, is again consistent with Science, at least in most cases. exceptions to the rule apply

Things (massless particles? or essence?) exist in other dimensions which we have not yet revealed in our 3D + T, (or 6D aeronautical referencing) seems to be a consistent theory in both Physics & Religion.

So JoAnne, in a vain attempt at flattery, may I suggest the question should be rephrased: “Do people regardless of religious inclination, political belief, sexual bent, education or philosophical orientation, believe there are things which we have not yet revealed in our spacetime dimensions – which are flux like energy states, or life forces even” and maybe you’d get 100% agreement.

Except for the ‘exception to the rule’ who will argue against nothing just to prove the exception (the rule).

]]> By: Ryan Scranton http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19892 Ryan Scranton Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:55:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19892 There have been a relatively small number of cases where science teachers have been removed or reassigned if they either weren't teaching evolution at all or (usually) if they were teaching creationism or ID. The vast majority of the time, however, it's the case that, if a teacher is feeling pressure from parents about teaching evolution, there's bound to be a not insignificant fraction of the local school board who'd just as soon they skipped evolution altogether. Blaming teachers for not wanting to risk become pariahs in their local communities seems like a bad way to address the problem. Instead, I'd put the onus on the scientific community. We don't spend a large enough fraction of our time on educating the public and tend not to give enough recognition to those of us who do. There have been a relatively small number of cases where science teachers have been removed or reassigned if they either weren’t teaching evolution at all or (usually) if they were teaching creationism or ID. The vast majority of the time, however, it’s the case that, if a teacher is feeling pressure from parents about teaching evolution, there’s bound to be a not insignificant fraction of the local school board who’d just as soon they skipped evolution altogether. Blaming teachers for not wanting to risk become pariahs in their local communities seems like a bad way to address the problem.

Instead, I’d put the onus on the scientific community. We don’t spend a large enough fraction of our time on educating the public and tend not to give enough recognition to those of us who do.

]]> By: andy.s http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19891 andy.s Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:38:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19891 Ryan. A few selected out-of-context quotes from your reply (hope you don't mind). "...state school boards ... removing ... teachers who skip the evolution chapter ... publishers knuckle under ... " We have met the enemy and he is us. Ryan. A few selected out-of-context quotes from your reply (hope you don’t mind).

“…state school boards … removing … teachers who skip the evolution chapter … publishers knuckle under … ”

We have met the enemy and he is us.

]]> By: Eugene http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19890 Eugene Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:35:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19890 Gah. Thought = "taught". I am turning into a phonetic speller. Bad. Gah. Thought = “taught”. I am turning into a phonetic speller. Bad.

]]> By: Eugene http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19893 Eugene Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:34:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19893 What I want to really know, is what's the percentage of people living in countries where religious belief is not divided into "Those who believe in a personal God, those who do not", believing in evolutionary science. My home country Malaysia would be one (predominantly Muslim, but plenty of Taoists, pagan beliefs, Christians, Buddhists, to go about). We were thought evolution in High School. What I want to really know, is what’s the percentage of people living in countries where religious belief is not divided into “Those who believe in a personal God, those who do not”, believing in evolutionary science. My home country Malaysia would be one (predominantly Muslim, but plenty of Taoists, pagan beliefs, Christians, Buddhists, to go about). We were thought evolution in High School.

]]> By: Ryan Scranton http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19887 Ryan Scranton Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:52:08 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19887 <strong>AndyS</strong>: Creationism and ID may not be taught (officially), but the influence of creationist sympathies is not limited to just positive instruction. Just as damaging is the negative influence they've had on the teaching of biology, geology and astronomy. You've got big obvious actions like state school boards either removing information from the state science standards or insisting on "teaching the controversy", which basically brings in a lot of what counts for creationist critiques of evolution through the backdoor. Then there are the less well publicized efforts like teachers who skip the evolution chapter in the bio book because they don't what to deal with creationist parents who complain. And trickle down effects like when Texas demands less emphasis on the ancient age of the earth and publishers knuckle under because they can't survive without that contract. All of this contributes to the fact that even Americans who don't have a particular religious axe to grind against science end up with a dumbed down science background. AndyS: Creationism and ID may not be taught (officially), but the influence of creationist sympathies is not limited to just positive instruction. Just as damaging is the negative influence they’ve had on the teaching of biology, geology and astronomy. You’ve got big obvious actions like state school boards either removing information from the state science standards or insisting on “teaching the controversy”, which basically brings in a lot of what counts for creationist critiques of evolution through the backdoor. Then there are the less well publicized efforts like teachers who skip the evolution chapter in the bio book because they don’t what to deal with creationist parents who complain. And trickle down effects like when Texas demands less emphasis on the ancient age of the earth and publishers knuckle under because they can’t survive without that contract. All of this contributes to the fact that even Americans who don’t have a particular religious axe to grind against science end up with a dumbed down science background.

]]> By: Uffe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19888 Uffe Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:50:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19888 The graph measures much more than scientific awareness. Note for example that cartoons coming from the top of the list, are met with clubs at the bottom of the list. The graph measures much more than scientific awareness. Note for example that cartoons coming from the top of the list, are met with clubs at the bottom of the list.

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19895 Arun Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:31:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19895 Frightening. I think "The Blind Watchmaker " by Richard Dawkins must be made compulsory reading in schools around the world. Frightening. I think “The Blind Watchmaker ” by Richard Dawkins must be made compulsory reading in schools around the world.

]]> By: alienmist http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/comment-page-1/#comment-19894 alienmist Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:06:14 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/08/24/the-us-is-next-to-last/#comment-19894 maybe for some reason, evolution theory just doesn't sound right to majority of people in the world. There is nothing any scientist can do about that! Religous feeling are very deep and do not listen to reason or "scientific facts" because the very essence of a religious belief is a faith in the unseen and sometimes the "unproovable". Americans way more religous than the European, It has got nothing to do with the education system. maybe for some reason, evolution theory just doesn’t sound right to majority of people in the world. There is nothing any scientist can do about that!

Religous feeling are very deep and do not listen to reason or “scientific facts” because the very essence of a religious belief is a faith in the unseen and sometimes the “unproovable”.

Americans way more religous than the European, It has got nothing to do with the education system.

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