Comments on: Labor Day Simplicity and Hypocrisy http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:09:16 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Elliot http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20089 Elliot Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:24:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20089 Here is a brand new organization addressing the issue of scientific integrity in government. http://www.sefora.org/ Regards, Elliot Here is a brand new organization addressing the issue of scientific integrity in government.

http://www.sefora.org/

Regards,

Elliot

]]> By: Johan Richter http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20090 Johan Richter Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:55:46 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20090 Better to raise the tax on gasoline than to raise fuel economy standards. Raise the price of gasoline and then let the market decide which sector of the economy that can cut its consumption of oil the cheapest. Fuel economy standards will raise the cost for consumers just like a tax so you might as well have a tax. Better to raise the tax on gasoline than to raise fuel economy standards. Raise the price of gasoline and then let the market decide which sector of the economy that can cut its consumption of oil the cheapest.

Fuel economy standards will raise the cost for consumers just like a tax so you might as well have a tax.

]]> By: Bob E. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20104 Bob E. Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:28:34 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20104 I do not hear much about using wind any more. Living in Dallas one becomes aware of the power of wind. Seems to me that if the wind can almost blow my car off the road at times, its energy density must be fairly high. The conversion via windmills to electricity also seems fairly straightforward - rotational motion with minimal coupling, no fueling required, no pollution. Why aren't we building windmills (not "of the mind" kind)? Ditto for tidal-driven hydroelectric. Bob. I do not hear much about using wind any more. Living in Dallas one becomes aware of the power of wind. Seems to me that if the wind can almost blow my car off the road at times, its energy density must be fairly high. The conversion via windmills to electricity also seems fairly straightforward – rotational motion with minimal coupling, no fueling required, no pollution. Why aren’t we building windmills (not “of the mind” kind)? Ditto for tidal-driven hydroelectric.
Bob.

]]> By: spyder http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20105 spyder Wed, 06 Sep 2006 19:58:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20105 The issues are huge, and getting more so by the day. The longer we "postpone" actually doing something about it as a nation, society, citizenry, the more costly and detrimental it becomes. Most of the remaining petroleum reserves (including the "wow, look what we just found" Chevron off-shore gulf fields) are comprised of heavy to super-heavy crude stock. These cost considerably more in energy, and oil, to refine, while producing more toxic residues, etc. The need for fuel to produce and transport food also becomes highly counterproductive for our economy and for our lives. Natural gas, a majority of which is converted to fertilizers, has risen dramatically, exponentially in price in the last three years. Coal, though plentiful, is also of more inferior quality and thus requires more and more investment in protecting air and water quality to extract and convert to energy. It is becoming quite clear that a crisis of some magnitude will develop forcing change upon us whether we like it or not. Those, who follow some of the suggestions above, will suffer less than those who are content for the time being in living in costly convenience. This lack of action will lead to a US that looks much like Eastern Europe and China in the next thirty to forty years; massive clouds of hazardous pollution (from coal burning), national sacrifice zones for the depositing of nuclear and other toxic energy by-products, vastly expensive food and other essentially necessary commodities, and so forth. Science isn't going to be able to come up with sufficient and timely technologies to offset these processes. We need to act, and act now, in our own best interests if we care at all about the future. And, though it need not be said, nothing above even begins to talk about reacting to global climate change. Damn, it sure would be nice to be super wealthy rich, so i could build my own little bio-dome, nuclear-powered, private yacht, and protect it with private security forces well fed and stocked with the best equipment. Then i could have my Alfred E Newman moment. The issues are huge, and getting more so by the day. The longer we “postpone” actually doing something about it as a nation, society, citizenry, the more costly and detrimental it becomes. Most of the remaining petroleum reserves (including the “wow, look what we just found” Chevron off-shore gulf fields) are comprised of heavy to super-heavy crude stock. These cost considerably more in energy, and oil, to refine, while producing more toxic residues, etc. The need for fuel to produce and transport food also becomes highly counterproductive for our economy and for our lives. Natural gas, a majority of which is converted to fertilizers, has risen dramatically, exponentially in price in the last three years. Coal, though plentiful, is also of more inferior quality and thus requires more and more investment in protecting air and water quality to extract and convert to energy.

It is becoming quite clear that a crisis of some magnitude will develop forcing change upon us whether we like it or not. Those, who follow some of the suggestions above, will suffer less than those who are content for the time being in living in costly convenience. This lack of action will lead to a US that looks much like Eastern Europe and China in the next thirty to forty years; massive clouds of hazardous pollution (from coal burning), national sacrifice zones for the depositing of nuclear and other toxic energy by-products, vastly expensive food and other essentially necessary commodities, and so forth. Science isn’t going to be able to come up with sufficient and timely technologies to offset these processes. We need to act, and act now, in our own best interests if we care at all about the future. And, though it need not be said, nothing above even begins to talk about reacting to global climate change.

Damn, it sure would be nice to be super wealthy rich, so i could build my own little bio-dome, nuclear-powered, private yacht, and protect it with private security forces well fed and stocked with the best equipment. Then i could have my Alfred E Newman moment.

]]> By: Aaron S. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20107 Aaron S. Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:09:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20107 a small amount of people are going to great lengths to reduce thier out of pocket... this much is true. And there are even a handfull of individuals who are making great efforts out of concern for the enviroment. But I would have to say that the magority of people who are using alternate fuels are doing so for the out of pocket savings. Until an alternate fuel that is: A. Readily available B. Mass Producible C. Cost effecient D. And creates no extra effort on the consumers part("pump and drive ready") there is no real way to get people to follow behind an idea. For instance, you can tell a million people that something is bad for them, but until the see results and a viable alternative, they will all agree that it is bad, but continue to use the path of least resistance, even if it is a path to destruction. A fuel needs to be developed that can be used in the Airline Industry, The shipping industry. Something that can be used in mass quantities with consistant results. Making vegtible deisel in your garage saves you money, but i don't forsee every SUV and V10 Truck owner filling thier garage with 50gallon vats of old frying grease. So now that I have complained about the problem and stated the obvious... what can we do? Well I would start by forbidding the oil companies to lobby... lol... no really, Solar Power is a REAL and VIABLE solution. Hybrid cars although extremely profficient, still rely on oil. A Solar Dependant car can run for 3 hours at like 55 miles an hour. All those speed freaks can still go fast on the highway, just make sure that there is a limit on how much gasoline consumption is allowed per person. Turn gas stations into charge stations, pay a fee for a charge, and still buy snacks... you know. Hey its an idea a small amount of people are going to great lengths to reduce thier out of pocket… this much is true. And there are even a handfull of individuals who are making great efforts out of concern for the enviroment. But I would have to say that the magority of people who are using alternate fuels are doing so for the out of pocket savings.

Until an alternate fuel that is:
A. Readily available
B. Mass Producible
C. Cost effecient
D. And creates no extra effort on the consumers part(”pump and drive ready”)

there is no real way to get people to follow behind an idea.

For instance, you can tell a million people that something is bad for them, but until the see results and a viable alternative, they will all agree that it is bad, but continue to use the path of least resistance, even if it is a path to destruction.

A fuel needs to be developed that can be used in the Airline Industry, The shipping industry. Something that can be used in mass quantities with consistant results.

Making vegtible deisel in your garage saves you money, but i don’t forsee every SUV and V10 Truck owner filling thier garage with 50gallon vats of old frying grease.

So now that I have complained about the problem and stated the obvious… what can we do? Well I would start by forbidding the oil companies to lobby… lol…

no really, Solar Power is a REAL and VIABLE solution. Hybrid cars although extremely profficient, still rely on oil. A Solar Dependant car can run for 3 hours at like 55 miles an hour. All those speed freaks can still go fast on the highway, just make sure that there is a limit on how much gasoline consumption is allowed per person. Turn gas stations into charge stations, pay a fee for a charge, and still buy snacks… you know. Hey its an idea

]]> By: Bob E. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20106 Bob E. Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:56:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20106 I know a professional truck driver who claims the use of vegetable oils invalidates the warranty on his truck. Bob. I know a professional truck driver who claims the use of vegetable oils invalidates the warranty on his truck.
Bob.

]]> By: Robert McNees http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20108 Robert McNees Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:34:19 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20108 <blockquote>Bring back the double nickles. Driving at 55 MPH saves 10% to 20% </blockquote> Did Sammy Hagar teach us nothing? :)

Bring back the double nickles. Driving at 55 MPH saves 10% to 20%

Did Sammy Hagar teach us nothing? :)

]]> By: Stephen Uitti http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20109 Stephen Uitti Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:19:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20109 In the 70's 'energy crisis', most of the gains came from conservation. Bring back the double nickles. Driving at 55 MPH saves 10% to 20%. Instantly. In the 70’s ‘energy crisis’, most of the gains came from conservation.

Bring back the double nickles. Driving at 55 MPH saves 10% to 20%.

Instantly.

]]> By: mxracer652 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20110 mxracer652 Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:37:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20110 thm, the low energy density of ethanol can be *almost* made up with an increase in compression ratio. Ethanol carries an octane rating of 114 (if memory serves correct). Compression can be upped to ~12:1 with no detonation when using alchohol based fuels, and as we all know, CR is a driving factor for Otto cycle efficiency. The thermodynamics of ethanol use is a non-issue if vehicles are designed to run on it from the start. OTOH, fuel efficiency starts @ home, check your tire pressures once a week, use synthetic fluids (yes, they really do reduce drag), a manual transmission is 2-10% more efficient than an automatic, keep your air filter & spark plugs clean. The internal combustion engine is already running as fuel lean as possible. The only savings to be had are to reduce weight and drag until electric catches up. thm,
the low energy density of ethanol can be *almost* made up with an increase in compression ratio. Ethanol carries an octane rating of 114 (if memory serves correct). Compression can be upped to ~12:1 with no detonation when using alchohol based fuels, and as we all know, CR is a driving factor for Otto cycle efficiency. The thermodynamics of ethanol use is a non-issue if vehicles are designed to run on it from the start.

OTOH, fuel efficiency starts @ home, check your tire pressures once a week, use synthetic fluids (yes, they really do reduce drag), a manual transmission is 2-10% more efficient than an automatic, keep your air filter & spark plugs clean.

The internal combustion engine is already running as fuel lean as possible. The only savings to be had are to reduce weight and drag until electric catches up.

]]> By: PK http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/comment-page-1/#comment-20111 PK Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:56:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/09/04/labor-day-simplicity-and-hypocrisy/#comment-20111 What about vegetable oil? A diesel engine runs on sunflower or rapeseed oil almost just as well, and if you run the extraction plants on this fuel you might become completely carbon neutral. Incidentally, some people in Wales (in the UK) use sunflower oil in their cars, because a litre of sunflower oil costs less than a litre of diesel. What about vegetable oil? A diesel engine runs on sunflower or rapeseed oil almost just as well, and if you run the extraction plants on this fuel you might become completely carbon neutral. Incidentally, some people in Wales (in the UK) use sunflower oil in their cars, because a litre of sunflower oil costs less than a litre of diesel.

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