“I have heard this comment, which was one of the most hurtful things anyone has ever said to me, from someone who later apologised for thinking it, as he hadn’t realised affirmative action didn’t apply to foreigners.”

Heh. I have had lots of Americans sneer at me because they thought I didn’t have to pay tax, being a foreign student.

Just to make things clear – I have never had any problems with any American graduate student – in fact, they seem quite willing to listen to others.

I do not agree that Asians like being with other Asians only. I have noticed that there is a significant number of Asian graduate students who look for like-minded company, not necessarily Asian.

I am not in favour of affirmative action. I am greatly in favour of changing attitudes at the primary school level and with parents, who knowingly or unknowingly discourage little girls from seeing science as a career; I am greatly in favour of a society with less economic and social disparity for certain minorities who may consequently be discouraged from science; I am in favour of better provision of childcare, and for educating boys from a young age to see themselves as equal partners in raising children. Maybe blind admission/refeering/hiring processes can help correct subconscious prejudices. However I never want to hear anyone say that I got somewhere because I got a helping hand that my academic and research record didn’t deserve, that I wasn’t “good enough”. I can stand on my own two feet. I have heard this comment, which was one of the most hurtful things anyone has ever said to me, from someone who later apologised for thinking it, as he hadn’t realised affirmative action didn’t apply to foreigners.

Its wrong to think that every female or minority person has a monolithic opinion on such issues.

It’s a complex issue. Probably the best approach is to resist the temptation to view them as a homogenous mass. Easy to say, but sometimes hard to do.

The insular tendency is natural when you feel like you’re on another planet. I spent a brief amount of time doing research in Europe. I tried not to “bunch up” w/other anglophiles. Unfortunately, it happened anyway: the Americans, English, and Irish tended to cluster and just English, and thus mutually reinforce our feeling of alienation from the general population. We were hesitant to speak the local language for two reasons: 1.) their English, when they wanted to speak it, was flawless so the conversation was more efficient for everyone when carried out in English; 2.) we were too chicken and were a bit nervous about being laughed at. So, I imagine w/students from Asia, it’s way way harder. At least we all spoke Indo-European languages.

As far as possible discrimination; it seems some do quite well in Academia (e.g. prof positions at good research institutions). Yet, I agree it sometimes doesn’t look too good at the grad-student/post-doc level. It seems there’s a bit of a disconnect. I do know that the Asian students I’ve encountered need to understand the “self-promotion thing” better. Aggressive (although not necessarily arrogant) self-promotion is clearly a key to success in our system. Of course, there are always exceptions, but generally the Asian students need to be more aggressive and question others more often, instead of taking the more traditional passive aggressive appoach. A slam one often hears is that ” Oh those Asians score well on tests and work long hours; but they’re not very creative”. The shuffling, non self-promoting attitude unforunately fuels this rather ridiculous statement.

What can American students do to help Asian students? In my experience, I have found most of the Asian students very insular with each other, and not particularly interested in talking with the non-Asian students.

Clearly, this is a reaction to the attitudes expressed in #50, but what are others to do? I try to be friendly and listen when I can, and have gone as far as to make hotel reservations over the phone for a Chinese student. But, at the same time, I don’t know exactly what to do, beyond this, to help, really.

What you describe is not a physics culture problem, but instead is a U.S. culture [1] problem. There is a strong pressure from the U.S. society-at-large to be ‘the same’ with little respect for differences. I was born and lived for 37 years in the U.S. before I moved away 8 years ago, and it is this particular facet of the U.S. that drove me away the most. When the society-at-large of this particular group of people, which comprises 6 percent of the world’s population, learns to relish and delight in the diversity and richness of the human race, then I think that the problem that you describe will disappear.

[1] Yes, I do know well that the U.S. ‘culture’ is not ethnically homogenous, but instead is a hodge-podge of groups.

As for getting permanent positions, I must say that the best option for the likes of me is to get back to our respective home countries…and keep visiting the US to keep our collaborations going. Work will be slower, and we will face a huge number of problems (e.g. politics in departments), but it will be much better than getting frustrated here…

Don’t get me wrong – I am glad I came to the US. It is just that I don’t think my work and I are appreciated any more here than in my home country. Some universities are definitely much better than others, but this severely limits my options when it comes to looking for a job…

-Rob