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	<title>Comments on: Defense Wins Games</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: r stevens</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22088</link>
		<dc:creator>r stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 04:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22088</guid>
		<description>Consider the fact that a better defensive team not only
lowers the opponents f.g.%,but also creates more defensive turnovers;thus more offensive scoring opportunities,for their team;less for the opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider the fact that a better defensive team not only<br />
lowers the opponents f.g.%,but also creates more defensive turnovers;thus more offensive scoring opportunities,for their team;less for the opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22087</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22087</guid>
		<description>Well, I decided to do all the &quot;heavy lifting&quot; for you guys to run the correlations of FG% vs Win % offense and defense. (It involved not only 2 copy-paste clicks, but a selection of &quot;add trendline&quot; in the excel graph for the OLS -- whew!)

For the whole 05/06 season: 1 % higher fg on offense = 4.5% higher win. 1% lower fg on defense = 4.6% higher win.

Looks the same to me. One interesting note though, the R-squared is better for defense (.17 off vs .31 def). (which doesn&#039;t mean the effect is greater, just that is may be a little more predictable from one team to the next).

In the end, I still think the issue is that teams don&#039;t just create fg%, they must pay players to create them. So the costs of being more offensive-minded (getting iverson) or defensive-minded (getting wallace) are the primary driver. How to get the most bang for your buck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I decided to do all the &#8220;heavy lifting&#8221; for you guys to run the correlations of FG% vs Win % offense and defense. (It involved not only 2 copy-paste clicks, but a selection of &#8220;add trendline&#8221; in the excel graph for the OLS &#8212; whew!)</p>
<p>For the whole 05/06 season: 1 % higher fg on offense = 4.5% higher win. 1% lower fg on defense = 4.6% higher win.</p>
<p>Looks the same to me. One interesting note though, the R-squared is better for defense (.17 off vs .31 def). (which doesn&#8217;t mean the effect is greater, just that is may be a little more predictable from one team to the next).</p>
<p>In the end, I still think the issue is that teams don&#8217;t just create fg%, they must pay players to create them. So the costs of being more offensive-minded (getting iverson) or defensive-minded (getting wallace) are the primary driver. How to get the most bang for your buck?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22090</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22090</guid>
		<description>The well-known saying in fact says it all:
&quot;Offense wins (regular-season) games; defense wins championships.&quot;

Your argument based on variation of results from offense vs. variation of results from defense is legitimate regarding regular season performance and is enhanced in the playoffs, since all playoff teams have at least a couple good offensive players.  But the real root of the effect is that playoff games often come down to the final play(s) because most of the time playoff teams are fairly evenly matched.

Now a team&#039;s shooting performance on a given night (or in a given play) is largely a matter of chance, but playing good defense is closely tied to effort.  Thus strong defensive teams can directly control their (defensive) performance, and in particular they can be sure that they perform their best when it matters most--in the playoffs and at the end of games.  This is not true of offensive teams, who are at the whim of Lady Luck.

In stupid sportscaster talk, championship teams are thus those &quot;who can get stops when they need them.&quot;  Unfortunately I learned this first-hand a few years ago as a fan of the Sacramento Kings, who perenially lost nail-biters to the Los Angeles Lakers because of L.A.&#039;s superior defense.

(By the way, note that there is the coupled issue of whether it&#039;s better to have a couple superstars or a bunch of good players, but that merits its own discussion.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The well-known saying in fact says it all:<br />
&#8220;Offense wins (regular-season) games; defense wins championships.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your argument based on variation of results from offense vs. variation of results from defense is legitimate regarding regular season performance and is enhanced in the playoffs, since all playoff teams have at least a couple good offensive players.  But the real root of the effect is that playoff games often come down to the final play(s) because most of the time playoff teams are fairly evenly matched.</p>
<p>Now a team&#8217;s shooting performance on a given night (or in a given play) is largely a matter of chance, but playing good defense is closely tied to effort.  Thus strong defensive teams can directly control their (defensive) performance, and in particular they can be sure that they perform their best when it matters most&#8211;in the playoffs and at the end of games.  This is not true of offensive teams, who are at the whim of Lady Luck.</p>
<p>In stupid sportscaster talk, championship teams are thus those &#8220;who can get stops when they need them.&#8221;  Unfortunately I learned this first-hand a few years ago as a fan of the Sacramento Kings, who perenially lost nail-biters to the Los Angeles Lakers because of L.A.&#8217;s superior defense.</p>
<p>(By the way, note that there is the coupled issue of whether it&#8217;s better to have a couple superstars or a bunch of good players, but that merits its own discussion.)</p>
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		<title>By: Urbano</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22080</link>
		<dc:creator>Urbano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22080</guid>
		<description>Sean, it is related somehow also to NBA, since onminipresence is something I expect of it :-): will you say nothing about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nasa.gov/audience/formedia/features/news_audio.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;that&lt;/a&gt;??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, it is related somehow also to NBA, since onminipresence is something I expect of it <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> : will you say nothing about <a href="http://www.nasa.gov/audience/formedia/features/news_audio.html" rel="nofollow">that</a>??</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22081</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22081</guid>
		<description>You can get offensive and defensive points per possession data &lt;a href=&quot;http://basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  I didn&#039;t bother to run the correlations with wins (since points are so closely related to wins), but &lt;a href=&quot;http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2006/07/5050.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last time&lt;/a&gt; that Matt made this argument I found that offensive and defensive PPP have approximately equal standard deviations over the last two seasons, 3.05 and 3.55 for offense vs. 3.49 and 3.27 for defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can get offensive and defensive points per possession data <a href="http://basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  I didn&#8217;t bother to run the correlations with wins (since points are so closely related to wins), but <a href="http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2006/07/5050.html" rel="nofollow">last time</a> that Matt made this argument I found that offensive and defensive PPP have approximately equal standard deviations over the last two seasons, 3.05 and 3.55 for offense vs. 3.49 and 3.27 for defense.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Grossberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22082</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Grossberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22082</guid>
		<description>IMHO, the real answer is one level deeper, and something you touch on.

Good offense may or may not result from good teamwork. But good teamwork is a prerequisite for good defense.

Also, I think the PPG stats are too simplistic. Let&#039;s say team A wins 120-100 and then loses 110-100; team B beats opponents by 104-100 and 106-102. By that measure, team A is superior in points for (115 vs. 105) and points allowed (100 vs. 101), yet has a worse record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO, the real answer is one level deeper, and something you touch on.</p>
<p>Good offense may or may not result from good teamwork. But good teamwork is a prerequisite for good defense.</p>
<p>Also, I think the PPG stats are too simplistic. Let&#8217;s say team A wins 120-100 and then loses 110-100; team B beats opponents by 104-100 and 106-102. By that measure, team A is superior in points for (115 vs. 105) and points allowed (100 vs. 101), yet has a worse record.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22083</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22083</guid>
		<description>You are making the assumption that creating a better than average defensive team costs the same amount as creating a better than average offensive team. That is not necessarily true. You give the payout in winning % increase is 1.5 to 1 (assuming no sample size problems), but maybe the cost ($, time, coaches, less exciting team with reduction in marketability) of a good defense is more than 1.5 to 1.

Also, if you are using 06/07 data, that comes to 7 whole data points for each team! Maybe some sample size issues there? Looking at 05/06 in full would be better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are making the assumption that creating a better than average defensive team costs the same amount as creating a better than average offensive team. That is not necessarily true. You give the payout in winning % increase is 1.5 to 1 (assuming no sample size problems), but maybe the cost ($, time, coaches, less exciting team with reduction in marketability) of a good defense is more than 1.5 to 1.</p>
<p>Also, if you are using 06/07 data, that comes to 7 whole data points for each team! Maybe some sample size issues there? Looking at 05/06 in full would be better.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22089</guid>
		<description>yeah, yeah...but defense is boring!

j/k. The actual problem is that bad offense is boring. Good defense can be thrilling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, yeah&#8230;but defense is boring!</p>
<p>j/k. The actual problem is that bad offense is boring. Good defense can be thrilling.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22084</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22084</guid>
		<description>One note about the 6 time world champion Chicago Bulls. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen along with their offensive skills were both superb defensive players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One note about the 6 time world champion Chicago Bulls. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen along with their offensive skills were both superb defensive players.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/comment-page-1/#comment-22085</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/14/defense-wins-games/#comment-22085</guid>
		<description>Nope.  But I encourage you to do so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope.  But I encourage you to do so!</p>
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