In China Mieville’s Perdido Street Station, there is a scene in which Mayor Rudgutter parleys with the ambassador of Hell. It’s a negotiation he has performed before, but is nevertheless disconcerting; although the ambassador appears as a well-spoken and immaculately dressed man, his words are accompanied by a faint echo from deep in the Pit below, “in the appalling shriek of one undergoing torture.”
I’m pretty sure I heard the same thing on the phone with Orbitz last night.
Our story begins several months ago, when I booked a round-trip ticket to attend a conference in Greece. (I normally wouldn’t even bother relating this little adventure, except that extensive focus-grouping has revealed that readers love nothing more than chronicles of our travel-related follies.) It was in September, just after I had moved to LA, and various things came up that couldn’t be neglected — unfortunately, and uncharacteristically, I ended up canceling the trip at the last minute. Which was too bad, as I had paid $1600 for the fare on Orbitz.
But all was not completely lost — they let you keep the unused ticket for up to a year, and later on you can exchange it for some other international trip on the same airline (paying whatever change fees and fare differences apply, of course). As it turns out, I’ll be traveling to England later this month, so last week I attempted to use my credit from the Greece flight to pay for the ticket.
It wasn’t as easy as it might have been. First, despite being one of those explicitly web-based companies that wants you to do everything online, and makes some effort to hide their phone number from you, this specific transaction is one you can’t do on the web, you have to call them up. Where, of course, the department you want to speak to is not one of the options you are given by the automated voice system that answers the phone. But that’s not the issue here. Once I did reach a human being, I explained what I wanted to do, and was told that I needed to mail the paper ticket back to them via a service that could track its progress, and call back once I could demonstrate that the package was in transit.
So okay, I did that, and Sunday called back, ready to get a new itinerary. In fact I had previously gone onto Orbitz and found exactly the itinerary I wanted. It was a little complicated, since I wanted to fly from LAX to London, take the train to Durham a few days later, and then fly back to LA from Durham, but I found a semi-reasonable set of flights that got me back to LA only half an hour after midnight. And a tiny bit of extra trickiness, as the return flight from London to LA (after a short flight from Durham to Heathrow) actually stopped at Dulles for two hours before continuing on with the same flight number — as I painstakingly described to the guy on the phone.
But at least it was a relatively cheap ticket — only $700 or so. Once they added a $200 change fee and various miscellaneous gouging add-ons, the whole thing came to about $1000. Which was less than the $1600 I had originally spent, so I was going to be out about $600. (What, you didn’t think they were just going to give it back to me, did you?) But I accepted that, as you always lose big-time when you try to make such changes.
But then yesterday when they emailed me the itinerary, there was a bit of a surprise. (Yes, for some reason it takes a day to email the itinerary — some times the Tubes are just a little clogged, you know.) And the return flight had me going from London to Dulles and staying there, not continuing on to LAX. I might not even have noticed, had I not gone to choose seats on the flight — all of the flight numbers and departure times were right, which is all I usually pay attention to.
So I called again, and explained the problem. In particular, I explained that I had asked to take that flight all the way back to LAX, and their agent had obviously not typed that in, which was their mistake. They pointed out that the agent verified the itinerary with me before booking it, which I’m ready to believe is true. It was my mistake not to catch that the flight he had me on didn’t continue to LA, although an easy mistake to make — that’s what happens when you pay attention primarily to the flight numbers and departure times.
Can they fix things by putting me on the flight that I had asked for, the leg going from Dulles to LAX? Sure they can — for the fare difference, plus another $200 change fee, for a total of $300 extra. Even though they had screwed up? Yes. Could that $300 come out of the $600 of free money I was already giving them? No. How many minutes of frustrating phone conversation would it take to uncover these pleasant truths? About 45.
So $300 of my money has disappeared into the ether, as the result of an easily-correctable mistake. It’s not my first bad experience with Orbitz — they are notorious for doing things slightly wrong, and making them nearly impossible to fix, or at least gouging you whenever a fix is required. For example, if you book a hotel through them, the hotel is completely unable to fix or alter anything about the reservation; only Orbitz can do so, and they’re not always so helpful about it. (Other examples of Orbitz’s evil ways here, here, here.) But it will be my last, as I’m not going to be using them any more.
In fact, I’d like to call for a boycott. If I remember correctly, Bill O’Reilly was able to bring down the government of France by asking his listeners to stay away from French products. Surely if CV readers stayed away from Orbitz in droves, the company would spiral into a tailspin of bankruptcy and shame. (Or at least give me a sense of personal vengeance, which is more important.) So let’s get on that right away, okay? It’s about time we used the power this blog to make the world a better place.
And suggestions for alternative sensible ways to make complicated travel arrangements are welcome.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Have your secretary make the arrangements.
November 28th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
I have been very happy with Travelocity. However my travel plans are very simple.
Elliot
November 28th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
I think a $200 fee to change an itinerary — the typical airline policy — is wholly ridiculous. The entire industry is corrupt!
November 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
My wife used to work for expedia and this sort of thing happens all the time. Usually its not even the agency (orbitz, expedia, etc etc) but the airlines. She’s told me some stories that would make your skin crawl about the way these giant companies treat their customers. It’s really awful but when you need to fly you don’t really have a choice because all the airlines are equally evil. If you really want to make a dent don’t boycott the agencies, boycott airplanes. Take a cruise or a roadtrip or go by train whenever possible. The airlines are always hurting financially anyway and I don’t think it would take too much to make them take notice and cut out some of their red tape (yeah right).
November 28th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
I use http://www.sidestep.com to do a wholesale search of all airlines/portals/blah, and then go buy the ticket from the respectively airline website. Dealing with online travel agencies normally make me pull out my hair with frustration.
Sean, have you tried to call the airline itself to complain? Usually they are more sympathetic towards cases like yours. Basically, Orbitz has eaten up your travel credit with the airline (and pocketed it for profit). If you have the ticket number, you can call up the airline and explain your situation with them. I don’t know which airline you are flying, but most airlines do the travel credit thing for canceled tickets and they will refund the balance of your old vs your new ticket with a voucher.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Yep, Eugene’s got it right. I never ever ever book air tickets with any of the web-based travel agencies. I’ll use them to find a route/fare that I like, and then book directly with the airline.
November 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
As a frequent traveler, I rarely (ok never) encounter these problems. I do have to book business tarvel through our company agent – but have admin support to handle all the details. I book personal travel directly with the carrier and hotel. Since I travel a great deal they providers are always eager to satisfy, I cannot remember paying a change fee…
November 28th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
I had some trouble with Orbitz a few months ago too. The fantastic rate that Orbitz gave me at a hotel was a senior rate, that I was not elligible for. I wrote them a strongly worded letter and got a reply saying that it was obviously my fault because they were above such mistakes. Humph. Also, none of the listed amenities (i.e. high speed internet and a bathroom without bugs) were delivered. (I don’t mind staying in seedy hotels, but not when I have to pay $50 a night!) This I think was the hotel’s fault.
For plane tickets, I usually go to the specific carrier, as they are always five dollars cheaper (orbitz has a service fee). I think if you’re booking your flight far enough in advance, you might as well go through the airlines—it’s in their interest to give you a competitive price.
Also, aren’t travel agents free? Why not call one and speak to an actual person, who can get you good rates, and who you can bitch at when they mess up? This seems like a good idea if your flight plans are complicated.
November 28th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
[...] Sean Carroll writes about his hellish experience with Orbitz customer service, comparing it to the Hell’s Embassy scene in Perdido Street Station where the suave tones of the demonic ambassador are accompanied by a disturbing echo from below “in the appalling shriek of one undergoing torture.” Which reminds me that I promised myself last week, after enduring 2 hours in customer service hell with MCI, that I would blog about it so as to warn anyone else considering signing up with the company to avoid them like the plague. [...]
November 28th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
I agree with Eugene. I had a similar canceled ticket situation with Travelocity and USAir a few years ago. After almost an hour on hold at Travelocity, I called USAir. After 5 minutes on hold, I talked to a very helpful person who booked the new ticket and and issued a travel voucher for the remaining credit. Only downside was that the credit was the sort that needed to be physically presented, so I never did use it.
More recently, I use kayak.com to locate flights and book directly with the airline.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Travelocity usually works for me, except recently when halfway though my online booking, the itinerary changed without warning. Finding myself with a return flight from Amsterdam to London at 8 o’clock Sunday morning (not exactly the plan), I called the “help” line. They could change the times, but that cost an extra £30 plus £45 change fee. Which exceeded the ticket price to begin with. A complaint by email was never answered and I ended up flying back with Easyjet.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
I also tend to check out fares first on travelocity, expedia, etc, but then book directly with the airline. Often there are small perks associated with doing so, it’s seldom more expensive, and it is immeasurably better during irregular operations. If you’ve booked directly with the airline transporting you, you have a lot of options when things go wrong (including getting your ticket endorsed to another carrier, etc.), and you (hopefully) won’t have to spend hours on the phone to make minor changes — at worst, you’ll wait to talk to an agent at the airport.
Having a good travel agent can also be very helpful, but good TAs are very hard to come by these days (imho). Many have left the field, driven out by competition from Orbitz, etc, plus the increasingly miniscule or non-existent commissions paid to them by the airlines. Note that a good TA is not your secretary: you need someone who can answer your call 24/7 and deal with problems instantly when they arise, as they inevitably do if you travel enough. And if you’re a fairly savvy traveler, you can do most of the things that a mediocre TA would do for you anyway. Plus, you probably have waaay more inclination to actually spend the time researching alternate routings, which flights have upgrade availability, etc, etc, than would a run-of-the-mill TA who’s making say $20 on your ticket.
Finally (and probably you do this already, but it bears repeating): try to consolidate a big chunk of your travel on one carrier. The level of customer service you get as a very frequent flyer is wildly different from that given to the average customer. Again, this is particularly important when things go wrong. You probably fly enough to make at least mid-tier “elite” on an airline of your choosing, which comes with a bunch of tangible and intangible perks.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:14 pm
I almost always book directly with United; the only exceptions are complicated (usually international) itineraries that might involve multiple airlines, or for which United just doesn’t have routes. Taking the extra step of using Orbitz or Travelocity to find the best fare, but then actually booking directly with the airline, is something I haven’t generally bothered with, but obviously I should start.
November 28th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
Sean, let me completely ignore the content and topic of your post and ask about the author you mention at the beginning. The only thing of China Mieville’s that I’ve read is “Reports Of Certain Events In London”, his contribution to McSweeney’s Enchanted Chamber of Astonishing Stories. It was certainly one of the most interesting and original stories I’ve read in a while. Are you a fan? Do you recommend anything of his in particular?
November 28th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
I haven’t read anything other than Perdido Street Station, although I quite enjoyed it. A tad unfocused, but endlessly imaginative and provoking. I’d recommend it, no question. I heard about Mieville via Crooked Timber’s seminar — and now I’ve got them complaining about customer service! A happily self-referential blogosphere it is.
November 28th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
Travelocity is no panacea. I once booked a ticket with them, back in the days when international itineraries were not e-ticketed. The courier LOST the ticket, and they told me that — even though I had booked the ticket long in advance — there was no way to replace it but to buy another ticket at the same price when I got to the airport and then get refunded for the original ticket in their own good time.
I got to the airport plenty early, only to find that the desk of the airline that was supposed to replace my ticket was CLOSED, because the flight was a code-share. So I (1) got charged twice for a ticket; (2) missed my flight; (3) was stuck in the airport for many hours; and (4) got treated like crap by incompetent Travelocity customer service. For that reason, I will not do business with them. I had switched to Orbitz, but because of this blog (and the fact that they have started obscuring the actual price of your ticket, including taxes and blah blah blah…) I’ll stop dealing with them as well.
Search with kayak.com.
November 28th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
For convoluted international trips I find exactly the flights I want online and send it to the UofC travel agent (which happens to be AmEx). Not only can they charge it directly to your grant for work travel, but for some reason if something goes wrong (missed flight, last minute flight changes etc) they are able to handle things completely headache-free with minimal charges and a simple call (and they have international collect calling for this purpose, so even the call won’t cost you if you are stranded abroad). I am sure the Caltech travel agent has similar magical powers
November 28th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
A few years back, I had a similar experience with Travelocity. I must have spent several hours on the phone, climbing up their hierarchy of customer service people. In my situation, the mistake was certainly theirs originally (they booked my return flight for a full 8 months after I wanted it!), but because I hadn’t caught it when they sent me the itinerary, I was out a couple of hundred dollars to fix it.
The lesson I took away from that experience was to check the itinerary they gave me twice, three times to make sure that everything was exactly as I wanted it. So far, I haven’t had a repeat experience, but considering how much traveling I do, and how odd my flight sequences usually are (lots of open-jaw or multi-destination trips), I figure it’s just a matter of time. Sigh.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:51 am
I spent two hours last week on the phone with Expedia — most of it on hold while tech support tried to figure out why my tickets made the nice young lady’s computer crash, apparently — trying to move one leg of a flight by two days, eventually to find out that the whole ticket (which had cost me $1100 originally) would have to be rebooked and it would cost me $2800. Oh, and by the way, on the first leg of the flight, the one I didn’t want to change at all, I’d have to leave five hours earlier and get in half an hour later.
Needless to say I’m just throwing away the last leg of the ticket and buying another round-trip for $900, the second half of which, I would guess, also runs a 50/50 chance of being thrown away, since an actual one-way ticket would cost $1700.
I’m sure this is all cheaper than it would have been before airline deregulation, but it doesn’t give me any sympathy for the travel industry’s economic troubles.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:11 am
I would remind you that the screaming behind the Ambassador of Hell is the actual speaking, and the cultured tone of the Ambassador is the echo…this is undoubtedly as true here as it is in New Crobuzon.
November 29th, 2006 at 2:53 am
Hmmmm… but whenever you try to do something complicated, there will be problems. I don’t think it has anything to do with which travel agent or online booking website you choose. And you should know that from research: the more complicated and precise you want it, the more opportunities for it to get screwed up.
That being said, everyone’s travails here remind me of experiences I’ve had with cell phone companies, which seem to revel in infuriating fines and complicated contracts that are intentionally misleading. Hell, banks too. No one deserves that.
So what are we to do? There are only two options as I see it. 1) Make a lot of money so you can pay someone to take care of things for you/not worry about fines. Or 2) restrict your activities to less complicated ones. These two policies work pretty well for me.
(In other news, I wouldn’t disregard Orbitz. My experience has so far been phenomenal with them, so we probably have some sort of gaussian in the customer satisfaction… where are we respectively, hell, no one knows)
November 29th, 2006 at 4:11 am
Hmmmm… but whenever you try to do something complicated, there will be problems.
And apparently, whenever you try to do something simple, there will also be problems.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:16 am
I’ve generally used expedia to book travel in the past and have had no problems, although I’m sure they have just as many screw-ups as the next online travel company. However, if you want the personal touch, and someone you can shout at when things go wrong, you can always book travel at an actual physical, non-web based, travel agency! I’ve found STA to be quite pleasant.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:46 am
Why is the Satan metaphor less objectionable than the God metaphor to a militant atheist?
November 29th, 2006 at 8:34 am
I don’t think militant atheists have problems with Satan metaphors or with God metaphors, as long as they’re metaphors and used as jokes.
Re: booking travel: I recently went down to Chile. In years past, I was able to book eveything entirely through American Airlines– including the leg from Santiago to La Serena in Chile, which only happens on one airline (Lan Chile). This time, it wouldn’t let me do that on the web. I called up American Airlines, and they were able to add that leg — but it added something like $350 to the price of the ticket, which seems a little much for a 45-minute round trip. I was able to get a lower overall price (by a few hundred) going to one of the online web thingies. So much for the “One World Alliance.”
No problems, except for the fact that after standing 1.5 hours in the immigration line in Santiago, I missed my connecting flight. Lan Chile wouldn’t put me directly on the next flight; it was “standby only,” even though there were seats available. (What’s with that?) What’s more, they kept jerking us around up until 10 minutes before the flight departure telling us that they had to wait until the flight was “closed” before they could put us on it. I *think* they were hoping that the flight would sell out so they could just tell us we were SOL. I also think it was part of Lan Chile wanting to screw American over. At one point I asked the explicit question as to why they didn’t do what all airlines just do : put us on the next flight when we’ve missed a connection. They said that it was American Airlines’ fault, not their fault, that we’d missed the connection. (Actually, it was mostly Chilean immigration, but oh well.) So much for the “One World Alliance”.
(In the end, after running to the gate, we did get on the flight, and, yes, there were quite a number of seats still empty on it.)
I suppose with complicated flights you could work it all out in advance and then buy each ticket individuall from each airline. But, it might end up more expensive that way — no “package deal” — and you DO run the risk of each airline telling you that you had no total itenerary, and having no sympathy if you miss a connection. Of course, I suppose the latter would be exactly the same if you go through one of those web brokers — it nearly was for us.
I dislike flying for many reasons. This irritation is one of them. Mostly, though, is the fact that I’m rather large, and am only borderline comfortable in airline seats if I’ve got an empty seat next to me, or am travelling with my wife (who is small).
-Rob
November 29th, 2006 at 8:45 am
I have had some run-ins with airlines too. I think one of the reasons the airline industry is hurting so bad is they are so unwilling to work with you. I just had Delta completely change my itinerary on me to very inconvenient times without my authorization. And if I try to get new flights, of course more service charges and flight difference fees. This is my second such instance with Delta. They gave me trouble last summer too and would only fix the situation for money so I am also on the boycott campaign.
November 29th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
Sean,
I’m with you, brother. No Orbitz for me.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
In the last couple of years i have used the airlines themselves to book travel, rather than going through the online searching/booking services. I do this simply because of the economic downturn in air travel; most airlines are posting special sales for segments of their markets either three weeks or earlier, and/or two or three days just before my planned travel day. I can book a cheap fare, and then just before i travel i can check out the supersales and rebook, saving money and maintaining mostly personal control over my reservations and tickets. Hotel chains, and even rental car companies, are following suit these days.
November 30th, 2006 at 5:19 am
I had the same problem with Orbitz in NZ. Problem was that the University has them as the travel agent. I managed to get permision from the Admin of Uni to switch agents, and when i said -”Too bad I’m going with a different agent” they replied that they know i can’t cus its university travel. I hung up, less than 5mins later they called back and was bending over backwards to help. They even “found” a better conecting flight that saved me $300–all in 5 mins. I didn’t change agents, and I got to alter my travel plans 4 times after the first flight and all “fees” were waived. The University still took there travel busnisues to someone else.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I would like to say one good thing about Orbitz – I had booked a hotel in Orlando through Orbitz with a three star rating. When I arrived, the lobby was very nice. I got my room key, drove to the back, where there was a bunch of garbage laying all over the parking lot. The room was a smoking room (I specifically asked for non-smoking) and looked like it hadn’t been updated since the 70’s. They then switched me to another room, but the bleach smell was so bad, it burned my nostrals. I went back to the desk and requested my money back. They said since I made the booking through Orbitz, I had to call them. I called 1-800-555-1212, got the number for Orbitz, and they took care of it. They also stated that the hotels RATE THEMSELVES. I will never book a hotel based on rating again – only with reputable hotel chains.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
Only 300 dollars wasted? Goodness, let me tell you, you are very lucky.
The CEO of our small company and a team of workers were going to a foreign company for a long business trip. As we have had terrible experiences with Orbitz before, we tried not to use the terrible “it” to book the flights.
But as luck had it, the seats were filling up even as we spoke with the airline, so we needed to use Orbitz. Woe is us. Woe.
So we got their flight booked and off they went. No troubles there, everything was just perfectly fine. And so four or so weeks passed uneventfully.
But then the terror began.
Our team finished the work on time, and we flew them out, all but the CEO who stayed to fine-tune the system. Originally, he was scheduled to fly out with the rest of the team, so we needed to change the flight.
Our CFO will not relive that terrible experience, but it all turned out to mean over 700$ in charges and 5 terrible hours in time for our CFO.
But for some basics they repeatedly:
1. Acted like her question made no sense what so ever.
2. Gave her the flight information over and over.
3. Put her on hold with music that was: Classical music with scratchy high notes and absent low notes… impossible to imagine, and infinitely bad.
4. Put her on hold, waited a few minutes and HUNG UP. Hung up!
5. Referred her to people they had absolutely NO business being referring her to.
6. Not to mention trying to change a flight that had already happened. Can’t change the past Orbitz.
So, on the whole, none of us in our company, or any of our friends or relatives will EVER use the company from… Hell, heck and beyond.
At our Company, we call Orbitz’s TLC policy: Torture Lowly Customer. As out CFO eloquently says: “I hope they go to Business Hell.”
Boycott Ahoy!
-Ryath
December 12th, 2006 at 11:36 pm
Orbitz needs to be more careful who they sponsor for hotels.
I booked a hotel on their site for 75 Euro. When I checked in I had to pay another 3% because I used a credit card. You need to tell their customers in advance you will be charged an additonal fee for credit cards. In addtion the hotel did not have any towels. Hard to get dry in the morning after a shower when you find out there are no towels.
The Rembrandtplein Hotel in Amsterdam is a dump.
Elly at Orbitz could not handle this problem without my giving her my credit card number I used about 5 weeks ago. An example of a stupid policy and an employee with no brains.
I will never use Orbitz again. They have dumb employees and rip off the customer.
In additon you have hotels that are dumps on their system. The good news is the Internet and blogs allows millions of others to learn how poorly managed Orbitz is.
Orbitz should take off their phone number for customer service when they have employees that have no ability to solve problems. In addtion Elly would not tranfer me to a supervisor because after giving her the confirmation number I had no idea what card I used for the reservation.
December 30th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
[...] We just love that title, which is the title of a blog entry on cosmicvariance.com. Cosmic Variance is a blog by four physicists with their perspective on not just their jobs, but their time outside them. [...]
April 3rd, 2007 at 11:25 am
cheap ticket flight tracker
The truth is that if they were suddenly becoming rich in no time,
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:04 pm
I am currently on hold with Orbitz. I have been on hold now for about ten minutes, but I fear hanging up as I might forfeit the “progress” I have made thus far.
I had a similar experience with Orbitz and the cancellation of a flight. But my story is cruelly twisted by an email that I wish I had never gotten. After cancelling my flight to Houston, I received an email from Orbitz that read: Kristen – need a flight to Houston? Fares starting at $104 r/t.
I eagerly clicked on the link and searched in vain for the cheap fare. The best I could get was around $230. So, I finally found the “Customer Care” phone number and dialed. I am sure that I am talking to someone in India. “May I have your reservation number?” “I dont have a reservation, I want to make a reservation.” “Great, I will transfer you to the sales department.” Remember this as it is important later.
Let me interrupt my story by telling you that I have just been hung up on for the third time…Can you believe this sh../???x@#%?
So, the sales department tries to sell me a $215 ticket. When I ask about the $104 fare, they tell me they are sold out. Okay. I will live. Next day. Receive the same email about $104 airfare. “Let me transfer you to the sales department.” “What about the $104 fare?” “I am sorry, let me transfer you to the promotions department.” HANG UP
Today, I get an email:
Kristen – need a flight to Houston? Fares starting at $77 r/t. So, just to be a smart ass, I call and ask for the promotions department. “We dont have a promotions department.” “So let me speak to your supervisor.” HANG UP
So, I call back. I know, get a life, Kristen. Finally get someone to understand the issue I am having with the old “bait and switch” technique and he puts me on hold and then we lose the connection.
I WILL NEVER USE ORBITZ AGAIN.
Oh, and by the way, I booked my flight to Houston with a very friendly person from American Airlines.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
had a ticket from january from orbitz from jfk to madrid… they emailed over a month saying it was cancelled… since then i have a spent a month on the phone with them fighting for my refund which is yet to happen… overall i am unable to purchase another ticket and will not be pursuing my travel plans this summer thanks to orbitz… they say maybe sixty days for the refund… i would never advise using them and like someone previously mentioned to only use them to search various airlines and then book through the individual airline…
May 28th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
How Orbitz acted after better business buearu intervention, in response to:
Consumer’s Original Complaint :
Consumer alleges in July 2006, someone used my credit card to purchase tickets on their website. I contacted my credit card company and they agreed it was a fraudulent purchase. In Feb 2007 Orbitz says they understand I disputed the charges and while Chase determined I was not liable, Orbitz still thinks I should pay them. The amount in dispute is greater than $240.00 .
Consumer’s Desired Resolution:
To resolve this complaint I would like the company to stop sending this to collections and clear my account. Also, acknowledge the previous correspondence sent by certifiedmail on March 2007. The record locater number is XXXXXX.
BBB Processing
04/06/2007 fpp BBB Complaint Received by BBB
04/06/2007 fpp BBB Member or MIP Complaint Validated by BBB Operator
04/06/2007 otto MAIL Send Acknowledgement to Consumer
04/06/2007 otto BBB Inform MIP Member of Complaint
04/06/2007 WEB BBB RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : Contact Name and Title: Jeff Moss Customer Rltns
Contact Phone: 312-894-5000
Contact Email: customerrelations@orbitz.com
Dear Mr. XXXX:
Thank you for contacting Orbitz. I appreciate this opportunity to review and respond to you inquiry.
Inquiries sent to the Better Business Bureau are sent to the Customer Relations Team at Orbitz for review as we are able to assist with nearly every type of inquiry. Matters concerning fraud are handled only by that area and can not be addressed in this forum.
If your bank accepted your dispute as fraud, they may have offered a credit; however, Orbitz may choose to pursue the matter. This dispute will have to be settled with disputes@orbitz.com and sufficient proof of fraud provided.
I regret I am unable to assist you further with this matter.
Sincerely,
Jeff Moss
Customer Relations
04/06/2007 kmm MAIL Forward Business response to Consumer
04/10/2007 WEB BBB RECEIVED CONSUMER REBUTTAL : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
4/9/2007
In response to the invoice associated with record locator: AP200101MBECULGU.
I mailed my initial response to Orbitz via certified mail return reciept request, on 2/13/2007.
Kindly note until BBB intervention I had not even received a written response from Orbitz addressing my initial response, only more bills demanding payment, a payment which as I explained in my initial letter that under law I am not liable or responsible for.
If you wish to recover this payment, you need to speak with Chase, my credit card company. Under the Fair Credit Billing act (which is federal law) I understand that Chase is liable & responsible for any fraudulent charges on my account, not the cardholder.
Your collections department needs to stop sending me invoices, that being said I have contacted that Chicago Better Business Bureau office and filed a complaint subject to your questionable collection practices.
I suggest you send a copy of this correspondence to the attention of your General Counsel’s office for their review so they may advise your staff on the ramifications of your current business practices, also it is imperative that your collections staff understand the finer points of the Fair Credit Billing act and how it may pertain to some of the questionable actions they have taken with my case.
Now, be advised regarding record locator: XXXXXXXXXXXX; effective immediately Orbitz must vacate any claim they might have of me owing anything on this account.
Thank you for your time and consideration,
XXXX XXXX
addtl info: On 4/9 I spoke with Karen Klein Orbitz General Counsel and advised her of the complaint.I also e-mailed Karen Klein a copy of all corrospondence to kklein@orbitz.com and cc’d disputes@orbitz.com as suggested by Jeff Moss of Orbitz customer relations in his inital rebuttal to my complaint with the Chicago BBB. I am now waitng to hear back from Orbitz General Counsel and/or the Orbitz dispute department. Thank you to the BBB staff who have helped me facilitate this process.
04/10/2007 kmm EMAIL Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business
04/11/2007 WEB BBB RECEIVED BUSINESS’ RESPONSE TO REBUTTAL : Dear Mr. XXXX:
I asked our Revenue Protection Manager to update me on your file. He has advised that the matter has been closed and no further action is being taken. The Disputes Department should also be emailing you this information.
Sincerely,
Jeff Moss
Customer Relations
04/11/2007 kmm EMAIL Send Consumer Bus. Response – Close AJR
04/11/2007 otto BBB Inform Business – Case Closed AJR
04/11/2007 kmm BBB Case Closed AJR
They finally gave up on getting me to pay, I am now glad to air their dirty collections practices before the forum. They are atempting to take advantage of anyone they can, avoid Orbitz!!!
November 25th, 2008 at 6:31 am
If you are reading this basically you like me were suckered into a deal with Orbitz. I feel for you. You have two options now – you can rant and rave into the void (I have nothing against that) or you can get the most you can out of Orbitz with the least (but still considerable) effort.
Basically the way the operate is with very poor trained, very low-pay workers in call centers in emerging markets.
They are clueless and cannot really assist you. Getting cross, shouting, asking to speak to a supervisor – its all useless. They only give first names, so there is no come back. So in short realize before you call that you are speaking to someone paid way less than a dollar an hour, who speaks okayish English, has probably never stayed in hotel or flown in plane in their lives, doesn’t know anything about the travel business AND has their finger on the hang-up button.
The way the call center workers operate is the moment anything gets confusing or complicated, or the caller is irate they simply drop the call. Its no skin off their back, Orbitz (or its sub-contractors) designed the system to not be accountable. There is no follow up to the caller that you last spoke to i.e. you cannot actually get them again. So basically what I did, after about 10 hours of exasperated calls, was as follows. I worked out exactly what the solution to my problem was. Basically the person needed to call KLM and change the reservation. I got her the KLM reservation number in Holland, told her what buttons to press, phoned KLM in Holland (who said only the travel agent can do the change), asked them to make a note of what needed to change. And the talked the Orbitz call center staff through the process step by step. It worked.
Anyway here are some tips for how to manage your losses with Orbitz:
1) See if you can sort it out yourself first. You will have to do this anyway to “train” the Orbitz call center staff.
2) If its a small amount of money at stake ask yourself “is it worth 10 hours on the phone to staff who know nothings and can do little?”
3) If it is not a small amount of money or you are stuck here is what to do:
a) Find out exactly what the call center staff will need to do, who they need to phone, phone the people they need to phone and prepare them, give Orbitz staff as detailed a description as you can of what they need to do.
b) Do not get angry or they will punish you by keeping you on hold for 45 minutes and then cut you off.
Important – allocate time to this. Its not a quick call. Set yourself down, get coffee notepads, get in a comfortable chair and prepare to spend much of the day on the task.
Good luck
May 1st, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Orbitz is a stupid companty. no info about how you get refund from your OVERPAYING FOR AIRFAIR OR HOTEEL RATES).
October 14th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
If someone doesnt want to pay any fees DONT BOOK A TRAVEL!