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	<title>Comments on: Preferred Frames of Reference</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22609</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2007 08:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22609</guid>
		<description>Recently i had been reading a &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Road-Mecca-Muhammad-Asad/dp/1887752374 " title="The Road to Mecca" rel="nofollow"&gt;wonderful book&lt;/a&gt; by Muhammad Assad, who was the envoy of Pakistan to the UN.

He states in his book (in chapter 'midway' (or something like that) that the Arab astronomers proposed a heliocentric world.

That should settle the confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently i had been reading a <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Road-Mecca-Muhammad-Asad/dp/1887752374 " title="The Road to Mecca" rel="nofollow">wonderful book</a> by Muhammad Assad, who was the envoy of Pakistan to the UN.</p>
<p>He states in his book (in chapter &#8216;midway&#8217; (or something like that) that the Arab astronomers proposed a heliocentric world.</p>
<p>That should settle the confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ser Feenix</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22612</link>
		<dc:creator>Ser Feenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22612</guid>
		<description>Why does no islamic country have a space program?
Coz the pious scientists were afraid their prayers wouldnt reach their God from outer space. Not for the lack of any other technological capability. But now thanks to the genius Zainol they can start their galactic exploration programs and still send their prayers to the right place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does no islamic country have a space program?<br />
Coz the pious scientists were afraid their prayers wouldnt reach their God from outer space. Not for the lack of any other technological capability. But now thanks to the genius Zainol they can start their galactic exploration programs and still send their prayers to the right place.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Fabry</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22611</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Fabry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22611</guid>
		<description>I think investigating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin would be similiarly fruitful.  Perhaps I am too cynical, but if you really need to be facing Mecca in order to worship properly, perhaps it's time for the worshippee to send some new instructions.  Let me know when they arrive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think investigating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin would be similiarly fruitful.  Perhaps I am too cynical, but if you really need to be facing Mecca in order to worship properly, perhaps it&#8217;s time for the worshippee to send some new instructions.  Let me know when they arrive.</p>
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		<title>By: Ser Feenix</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22610</link>
		<dc:creator>Ser Feenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22610</guid>
		<description>Hey Maynard Handley Mr.Santa in red flannels was the invention of the Church of Coca Cola.
I came to this blog when somebody joked that an absolute frame of reference was found by a 'great' scientist.
This insanely idiotic article gave me such a great laugh.
Hey did anybody account for the time dilation in outerspace. The 5 prayers would never reach Mr.Allah if they they are not directed to the precise point at the precise time.
Maybe we need DHL.
On a more serious note algebra as well as the decimal system of numerals and a whole of geometry was learnt by the arabs from the indians . The europeans borrowed it from the arabs. The ancient greeks anyway knew a lot of this geometry to begin with. But Europe I suppose was suffering from amnesia and needed a knock on the head ( the crusades ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Maynard Handley Mr.Santa in red flannels was the invention of the Church of Coca Cola.<br />
I came to this blog when somebody joked that an absolute frame of reference was found by a &#8216;great&#8217; scientist.<br />
This insanely idiotic article gave me such a great laugh.<br />
Hey did anybody account for the time dilation in outerspace. The 5 prayers would never reach Mr.Allah if they they are not directed to the precise point at the precise time.<br />
Maybe we need DHL.<br />
On a more serious note algebra as well as the decimal system of numerals and a whole of geometry was learnt by the arabs from the indians . The europeans borrowed it from the arabs. The ancient greeks anyway knew a lot of this geometry to begin with. But Europe I suppose was suffering from amnesia and needed a knock on the head ( the crusades ).</p>
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		<title>By: The absolute frame of reference, finally &#171; White Noise</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22608</link>
		<dc:creator>The absolute frame of reference, finally &#171; White Noise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 06:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22608</guid>
		<description>[...] The absolute frame of reference.    Posted by yossarian Filed in Uncategorized [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The absolute frame of reference.    Posted by yossarian Filed in Uncategorized [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22552</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22552</guid>
		<description>PK even though you can describe the solar system with earth at centre. But in that case everything gets too complex. Apparently the 'tilt' will be something very different, the motion of the orbit of the sun :)

can you throw some light as to what the arabs thought about it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PK even though you can describe the solar system with earth at centre. But in that case everything gets too complex. Apparently the &#8217;tilt&#8217; will be something very different, the motion of the orbit of the sun <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
can you throw some light as to what the arabs thought about it?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22560</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22560</guid>
		<description>Really none of this is on-topic.  No more comments about whose religion is more awesome, or who was oppressed by whom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really none of this is on-topic.  No more comments about whose religion is more awesome, or who was oppressed by whom.</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22561</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 02:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22561</guid>
		<description>I realize that by responding to Manas in greater detail here, I'm straying from the topic at hand, but since this site regularly has posts on religion, I hope you all will indulge me.

Of course Islam is what Muslims do.  That's as true for Islam as for any other religion.  There is no other practical way to evaluate the precepts of a religion then by observing it in action, since there is no way to get followers of the religion to agree on its precepts.  Ismailis and Salafis aren't going to agree on much, even if they think they follow the same religion.  (Interestingly, there is a fair amount of doctrinal support for this position within Islam itself.)  I would be very careful of considering Muslims in the past to be paragons and the Muslims of today to be "in the dark".  From there it is far too easy to become a takfiri.  The Muslims of history are worse then you think and the Muslims of today not as bad, simply because of human nature.

As per your forced conversion statement: a large number of Muslim countries are close to or wholly Muslim now that weren't in the recent past.  See, e.g. Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey.  It is a historical fact that many (though not all) Muslim countries are hostile to religious minorites, even ones of long standing - like Bahai in Iran or Christians in Egypt.  There are essentially no Muslim countries that wholly respect freedom of religion - in most Muslim-dominated countries there are legal barriers to the practice of non-Muslim religions.  God help you if you belong to a Muslim sect viewed as heretical by most Muslims, see e..g the Ahmadis in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Yes, the Crusades were bloody and horrific, but I assure you the Muslim leaders involved were not blameless.  The proximate cause for the First Crusade was a call for help from the Byzantine Empire to fend off invading Muslim armies, attempting to conquer regions that had never been Muslim.  Another rallying cry was the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre by the Fatimid Al-Hakim, an event that could be compared to destroying the Dome of the Rock.

It's a natural reaction to attempt to cut off disreputable or horrific actions from oneself and declare the people involved "not true Muslims", but it is not going to fly.  Aurangzeb, for example, did exhibit many admirable qualities, like humility and charity, while being a bloodthirsty bastard, and people to this day honor him for that.  You need to accept the bad with the good: Aurangzeb and Akbar, the Taliban fighters who executes teachers of girls and the teachers who risk their lives to teach  Afghani girls, Dawood Ibrahim and Shah Rukh Khan, the janjaweed fighter who burns Darfuri villagers and the Darfuri refugee who flees them.  All are Islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize that by responding to Manas in greater detail here, I&#8217;m straying from the topic at hand, but since this site regularly has posts on religion, I hope you all will indulge me.</p>
<p>Of course Islam is what Muslims do.  That&#8217;s as true for Islam as for any other religion.  There is no other practical way to evaluate the precepts of a religion then by observing it in action, since there is no way to get followers of the religion to agree on its precepts.  Ismailis and Salafis aren&#8217;t going to agree on much, even if they think they follow the same religion.  (Interestingly, there is a fair amount of doctrinal support for this position within Islam itself.)  I would be very careful of considering Muslims in the past to be paragons and the Muslims of today to be &#8220;in the dark&#8221;.  From there it is far too easy to become a takfiri.  The Muslims of history are worse then you think and the Muslims of today not as bad, simply because of human nature.</p>
<p>As per your forced conversion statement: a large number of Muslim countries are close to or wholly Muslim now that weren&#8217;t in the recent past.  See, e.g. Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey.  It is a historical fact that many (though not all) Muslim countries are hostile to religious minorites, even ones of long standing - like Bahai in Iran or Christians in Egypt.  There are essentially no Muslim countries that wholly respect freedom of religion - in most Muslim-dominated countries there are legal barriers to the practice of non-Muslim religions.  God help you if you belong to a Muslim sect viewed as heretical by most Muslims, see e..g the Ahmadis in Pakistan and Bangladesh.</p>
<p>Yes, the Crusades were bloody and horrific, but I assure you the Muslim leaders involved were not blameless.  The proximate cause for the First Crusade was a call for help from the Byzantine Empire to fend off invading Muslim armies, attempting to conquer regions that had never been Muslim.  Another rallying cry was the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre by the Fatimid Al-Hakim, an event that could be compared to destroying the Dome of the Rock.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a natural reaction to attempt to cut off disreputable or horrific actions from oneself and declare the people involved &#8220;not true Muslims&#8221;, but it is not going to fly.  Aurangzeb, for example, did exhibit many admirable qualities, like humility and charity, while being a bloodthirsty bastard, and people to this day honor him for that.  You need to accept the bad with the good: Aurangzeb and Akbar, the Taliban fighters who executes teachers of girls and the teachers who risk their lives to teach  Afghani girls, Dawood Ibrahim and Shah Rukh Khan, the janjaweed fighter who burns Darfuri villagers and the Darfuri refugee who flees them.  All are Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22586</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22586</guid>
		<description>Nevertheless it stands that they did a good job in 'philosophae naturalis'. :)

Aryabhatta was a genius. India has sent up a satellite in his name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevertheless it stands that they did a good job in &#8216;philosophae naturalis&#8217;. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Aryabhatta was a genius. India has sent up a satellite in his name.</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22585</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/11/29/preferred-frames-of-reference/#comment-22585</guid>
		<description>Yup! You are perhaps right about both being compatible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup! You are perhaps right about both being compatible.</p>
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