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	<title>Comments on: The Flying Imams</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: USpace</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22806</link>
		<dc:creator>USpace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2007 06:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22806</guid>
		<description>Inconvenient truths can be scary and creepy,  but not as scary if on already knows them.
We have to refuse to be intimidated, if someone makes someone report them for weird behavior, then that person should be sued by the passengers for causing them distress with their behavior.

These Imams were faking and goofing on the passengers, and were probably trying to get tossed off the plane just so they could play the victim card and go to court and make a scene. Any judge who allows this is garbage.

absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
pretend to be terrorists

scare people on a plane
get thrown off claim racism
.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Inconvenient truths can be scary and creepy,  but not as scary if on already knows them.<br />
We have to refuse to be intimidated, if someone makes someone report them for weird behavior, then that person should be sued by the passengers for causing them distress with their behavior.</p>
<p>These Imams were faking and goofing on the passengers, and were probably trying to get tossed off the plane just so they could play the victim card and go to court and make a scene. Any judge who allows this is garbage.</p>
<p>absurd thought -<br />
God of the Universe says<br />
pretend to be terrorists</p>
<p>scare people on a plane<br />
get thrown off claim racism<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22780</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22780</guid>
		<description>Paranoia?
http://www.meforum.org/article/603</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paranoia?<br />
<a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/603" rel="nofollow">http://www.meforum.org/article/603</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22805</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22805</guid>
		<description>What a thoroughly disingenuous link about libertarians(&quot;Even if libertarian policy principles are kind of crazy&quot;)! Though coming from an apparently typical Republocrat, its not all that surprising I guess. Stick to the Cosmic Variance, stay away from the politics, you&#039;ll be much more enjoyable to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a thoroughly disingenuous link about libertarians(&#8221;Even if libertarian policy principles are kind of crazy&#8221;)! Though coming from an apparently typical Republocrat, its not all that surprising I guess. Stick to the Cosmic Variance, stay away from the politics, you&#8217;ll be much more enjoyable to read.</p>
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		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22785</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22785</guid>
		<description>Many more facts on our imams who see their role in life to cause grief for the country in which they enjoy vast benefits, and for which they have nothing but hate.  Must be a fun life.  Just gotta love these &quot;religious imams.&quot;

http://www.startribune.com/191/story/866867.html
John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many more facts on our imams who see their role in life to cause grief for the country in which they enjoy vast benefits, and for which they have nothing but hate.  Must be a fun life.  Just gotta love these &#8220;religious imams.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.startribune.com/191/story/866867.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.startribune.com/191/story/866867.html</a><br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22804</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22804</guid>
		<description>Haelfix,

this attitude doesn&#039;t work. If the authorities just follow rules and don&#039;t use their brains, you&#039;ll get nonsensical cases like this.

Some time ago there was trouble about a French pilot who made a joke about a shoe bomb. He was not allowed to fly the plane, which was ridiculous, because a pilot doesn&#039;t need a bomb, he could just fly the plane into a building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haelfix,</p>
<p>this attitude doesn&#8217;t work. If the authorities just follow rules and don&#8217;t use their brains, you&#8217;ll get nonsensical cases like this.</p>
<p>Some time ago there was trouble about a French pilot who made a joke about a shoe bomb. He was not allowed to fly the plane, which was ridiculous, because a pilot doesn&#8217;t need a bomb, he could just fly the plane into a building.</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22803</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22803</guid>
		<description>Funny, the report is more about the rise and talks of Al-Qaeda and it&#039;s leaders than being objective and providing proof. It talks about what the Al-Qaeda has said about America and all that. But I am yet to find any hard evidence. Can Arun point out page number of the report that gives hard evidence?

It does not really look like a serious document. It is more like a subjective personal discussion. Do people really write official reports like this in the USA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, the report is more about the rise and talks of Al-Qaeda and it&#8217;s leaders than being objective and providing proof. It talks about what the Al-Qaeda has said about America and all that. But I am yet to find any hard evidence. Can Arun point out page number of the report that gives hard evidence?</p>
<p>It does not really look like a serious document. It is more like a subjective personal discussion. Do people really write official reports like this in the USA?</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22802</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22802</guid>
		<description>Suggested reading:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suggested reading:<br />
<a href="http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Haelfix</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22801</link>
		<dc:creator>Haelfix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22801</guid>
		<description>I find it disturbing how many people are falling into the bait which these guys so obviously pulled.  It wasn&#039;t a mistake, they wanted to make a scene and a statement.  I see it at every protest rally i&#039;ve ever been too.  Usually you have some iratating lefty Marxist guy with a buddy with a film camera, and he goes up and purposefully nags and taunts police officers, while his friend pushes the cameras up in their face.

He *wants* them to arrest him, or to tell him to leave, or do something rash, b/c then it adds fuel to his world view and makes a spectacle that he can then use against them.  Police brutality, blah blah blah.

In this particular case, everything happened as it should, they were stopped, asked to leave and finally not prosecuted (actually the airline should have banned them from flying with them).  Good!  I&#039;m glad.  I don&#039;t want the situation where we have people pushing the envelope of security to its logical grey areas, just to test out reactions or to make political statements.  The guys were jerks and as such, I would just assume not fly with them (and im sure the passengers would agree).  Its not a right, its a priviledge in a free society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it disturbing how many people are falling into the bait which these guys so obviously pulled.  It wasn&#8217;t a mistake, they wanted to make a scene and a statement.  I see it at every protest rally i&#8217;ve ever been too.  Usually you have some iratating lefty Marxist guy with a buddy with a film camera, and he goes up and purposefully nags and taunts police officers, while his friend pushes the cameras up in their face.</p>
<p>He *wants* them to arrest him, or to tell him to leave, or do something rash, b/c then it adds fuel to his world view and makes a spectacle that he can then use against them.  Police brutality, blah blah blah.</p>
<p>In this particular case, everything happened as it should, they were stopped, asked to leave and finally not prosecuted (actually the airline should have banned them from flying with them).  Good!  I&#8217;m glad.  I don&#8217;t want the situation where we have people pushing the envelope of security to its logical grey areas, just to test out reactions or to make political statements.  The guys were jerks and as such, I would just assume not fly with them (and im sure the passengers would agree).  Its not a right, its a priviledge in a free society.</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22800</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 07:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22800</guid>
		<description>I would suggest you watch these two documentaries (&lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4948121296578586703&amp;sourceid=docidfeed&amp;hl=en&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-768956312207897325&amp;sourceid=docidfeed&amp;hl=en&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).

You will be less touchy when you hear &#039;Islam&#039; next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest you watch these two documentaries (<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4948121296578586703&amp;sourceid=docidfeed&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-768956312207897325&amp;sourceid=docidfeed&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">here</a>).</p>
<p>You will be less touchy when you hear &#8216;Islam&#8217; next time.</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/comment-page-1/#comment-22799</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 06:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2006/12/06/the-flying-imams/#comment-22799</guid>
		<description>Arun, your arguments are inherently faulty. Go through them once more.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Brutal policies of Hassan Al-Turabi &lt;/blockquote&gt;Great!
See &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6106398.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s not that they&#039;re the devils. It&#039;s that they&#039;re not &lt;i&gt;obidient&lt;/i&gt; to his highness Bush II. That is why they&#039;re colored all so black. And about brutal policies, as far I am aware, he&#039;s not responsible of any genocide, let alone for the killing of 2(or 6) million people anywhere in the world.
The ones that preceded them, they murdered, they looted, they extorted, they were involved in drug trafficing.... You have absolutely no problem with that. (My skin&#039;s safe anyway.) Stop being afraid whenever Islam is named. You will feel better.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mr. Ramadan was banned from entering France in 1996 on suspicion of having links with an Algerian Islamist who had recently initiated a terrorist campaign in Paris.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Along with nearly all Islamists, Mr. Ramadan has denied that there is &quot;any certain proof&quot; that Bin Laden was behind 9/11.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Al-Qaeda and Suspicion! Again! I&#039;m sick!
As far as I am aware, it &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a fact that Al Qaeda has not been convincingly proved to be involved in 911. Despite all the claims. I am yet to come across hard evidence other than &quot;he made a call to him&quot;, &quot;he rented his home for six months&quot;, &quot;they were seen together once in paris&quot; that sort of thing. It basically assumes one thing: undeniably the criminals has link with Al-Qaeda, which itself is not proven.

Neither has he said &#039;I think Al Qaeda is the greatest gift to mankind&#039;.
Fact is fact, face it. When he said there was no proof, he did not mean Al Qaeda is an angel.
The court of the United states has looked into it. They found &lt;em&gt;not a single of his writings or lectures&lt;/em&gt; can be called provocative.&quot; Not even in the sense of attacking or demeaning other civilisations.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Intelligence agencies suspect that Mr. Ramadan (along with his brother Hani) coordinated a meeting at the HÃ´tel Penta in Geneva for Ayman al-Zawahiri, deputy head of Al-Qaeda, and Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh, now in a Minnesota prison.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I susptect King Bush II had been meeting bin-Laden in his backyard discussing next election. This election(if you don&#039;t remember) he&#039;s done a great job by releasing a video message just before the elections. That indeed carried king Bush II&#039;s rheotics a distance.
Intelligence agencies suspect. I don&#039;t believe what media says about intelligence. Intelligence is not foreign policy that you go around beating drums about what you have found out. Whenever I see some &#039;intelligence&#039; on newspaper (or tv or net) I become suspecious.

A lot of allegations have been brought forward against Ramadan. Including doublespeak. But nobody ever provides evidence or example!
It&#039;s for those who want to believe all Islamists are evil. They require no proof.

No it&#039;s not that. It is because Ramadan is dangerous. He is well versed in history. He is reasonable. He&#039;s eloquent. In short he&#039;s more dangerous than all the criminals in Al-Qaeda put together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arun, your arguments are inherently faulty. Go through them once more.</p>
<blockquote><p>Brutal policies of Hassan Al-Turabi </p></blockquote>
<p>Great!<br />
See <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6106398.stm" rel="nofollow">this</a>. It&#8217;s not that they&#8217;re the devils. It&#8217;s that they&#8217;re not <i>obidient</i> to his highness Bush II. That is why they&#8217;re colored all so black. And about brutal policies, as far I am aware, he&#8217;s not responsible of any genocide, let alone for the killing of 2(or 6) million people anywhere in the world.<br />
The ones that preceded them, they murdered, they looted, they extorted, they were involved in drug trafficing&#8230;. You have absolutely no problem with that. (My skin&#8217;s safe anyway.) Stop being afraid whenever Islam is named. You will feel better.</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. Ramadan was banned from entering France in 1996 on suspicion of having links with an Algerian Islamist who had recently initiated a terrorist campaign in Paris.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Along with nearly all Islamists, Mr. Ramadan has denied that there is &#8220;any certain proof&#8221; that Bin Laden was behind 9/11.</p></blockquote>
<p>Al-Qaeda and Suspicion! Again! I&#8217;m sick!<br />
As far as I am aware, it <i>is</i> a fact that Al Qaeda has not been convincingly proved to be involved in 911. Despite all the claims. I am yet to come across hard evidence other than &#8220;he made a call to him&#8221;, &#8220;he rented his home for six months&#8221;, &#8220;they were seen together once in paris&#8221; that sort of thing. It basically assumes one thing: undeniably the criminals has link with Al-Qaeda, which itself is not proven.</p>
<p>Neither has he said &#8216;I think Al Qaeda is the greatest gift to mankind&#8217;.<br />
Fact is fact, face it. When he said there was no proof, he did not mean Al Qaeda is an angel.<br />
The court of the United states has looked into it. They found <em>not a single of his writings or lectures</em> can be called provocative.&#8221; Not even in the sense of attacking or demeaning other civilisations.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Intelligence agencies suspect that Mr. Ramadan (along with his brother Hani) coordinated a meeting at the HÃ´tel Penta in Geneva for Ayman al-Zawahiri, deputy head of Al-Qaeda, and Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh, now in a Minnesota prison.</p></blockquote>
<p>I susptect King Bush II had been meeting bin-Laden in his backyard discussing next election. This election(if you don&#8217;t remember) he&#8217;s done a great job by releasing a video message just before the elections. That indeed carried king Bush II&#8217;s rheotics a distance.<br />
Intelligence agencies suspect. I don&#8217;t believe what media says about intelligence. Intelligence is not foreign policy that you go around beating drums about what you have found out. Whenever I see some &#8216;intelligence&#8217; on newspaper (or tv or net) I become suspecious.</p>
<p>A lot of allegations have been brought forward against Ramadan. Including doublespeak. But nobody ever provides evidence or example!<br />
It&#8217;s for those who want to believe all Islamists are evil. They require no proof.</p>
<p>No it&#8217;s not that. It is because Ramadan is dangerous. He is well versed in history. He is reasonable. He&#8217;s eloquent. In short he&#8217;s more dangerous than all the criminals in Al-Qaeda put together.</p>
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