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	<title>Comments on: King Me</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Qubit</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24509</link>
		<dc:creator>Qubit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24509</guid>
		<description>Maybe the reason women chose not to play chess, is because it&#039;s an alpha male thing to be the grandmaster. I bet the only reason women do not become a grandmaster, is because of the title. Grandmaster is a word in the root of everyone&#039;s minds that triggers a view that a grandmaster should be an alpha male/female; women may naturally stay clear of such a title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the reason women chose not to play chess, is because it&#8217;s an alpha male thing to be the grandmaster. I bet the only reason women do not become a grandmaster, is because of the title. Grandmaster is a word in the root of everyone&#8217;s minds that triggers a view that a grandmaster should be an alpha male/female; women may naturally stay clear of such a title.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Uitti</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24524</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Uitti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24524</guid>
		<description>My son goes to a school where all the kids are above average.

At the very top of chess, the grandmaster don&#039;t have to accept a challange match, right?  I don&#039;t see how an old-boy&#039;s network can be completely avoided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son goes to a school where all the kids are above average.</p>
<p>At the very top of chess, the grandmaster don&#8217;t have to accept a challange match, right?  I don&#8217;t see how an old-boy&#8217;s network can be completely avoided.</p>
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		<title>By: Computer &#187; Links ...</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24539</link>
		<dc:creator>Computer &#187; Links ...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 03:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24539</guid>
		<description>[...] Sean Carroll discusses an academic paper on &quot;Sex differences in intellectual performance: Analysis of a Large Cohort of Competitive Chess Players&quot;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sean Carroll discusses an academic paper on &#8220;Sex differences in intellectual performance: Analysis of a Large Cohort of Competitive Chess Players&#8221;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Belizean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24542</link>
		<dc:creator>Belizean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 03:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24542</guid>
		<description>JoAnne wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The bias is pervasive and even the blokes, like Sean, who champion women&#039;s rights fall prey to it from time to time. Here&#039;s an example: we were recently brainstorming on names of possible new folks to join us here at CV. The name of someone I&#039;ll call A Theorist was mentioned. Sean wrote back that A Theorist probably wouldn&#039;t be interested because he&#039;s too high up in the physics political hierarchy. That really struck me. Because I am basically on the same political cmttes/panels that A Theorist is on, plus one more.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How do you know that Sean would not have made the same comment, if you were male?  Perhaps he views you as atypical for reasons having nothing to do with your sex.  Is there not the slightest possibility that your sexism detector requires a bit of recalibration?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoAnne wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>The bias is pervasive and even the blokes, like Sean, who champion women&#8217;s rights fall prey to it from time to time. Here&#8217;s an example: we were recently brainstorming on names of possible new folks to join us here at CV. The name of someone I&#8217;ll call A Theorist was mentioned. Sean wrote back that A Theorist probably wouldn&#8217;t be interested because he&#8217;s too high up in the physics political hierarchy. That really struck me. Because I am basically on the same political cmttes/panels that A Theorist is on, plus one more.</p></blockquote>
<p>How do you know that Sean would not have made the same comment, if you were male?  Perhaps he views you as atypical for reasons having nothing to do with your sex.  Is there not the slightest possibility that your sexism detector requires a bit of recalibration?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24541</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 00:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24541</guid>
		<description>My response was not knee-jerk, it was tired from repeating the same thing over and over.  Your undoubted familiarity with the bridge scene is completely irrelevant.  It&#039;s not a controlled experiment, and all the raw statistics in the world don&#039;t tell you anything about causality.  I linked to an actual attempt to control for external variables; did you read it?

Again and again -- I have no problem at all with the idea that there are statistical differences in various qualities between men and women.  There obviously are, e.g. for height.  I also couldn&#039;t care less.  What I care about is removing barriers to people living their lives as they want to, and combating the kind of prejudice that elevates local conditions to laws of nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My response was not knee-jerk, it was tired from repeating the same thing over and over.  Your undoubted familiarity with the bridge scene is completely irrelevant.  It&#8217;s not a controlled experiment, and all the raw statistics in the world don&#8217;t tell you anything about causality.  I linked to an actual attempt to control for external variables; did you read it?</p>
<p>Again and again &#8212; I have no problem at all with the idea that there are statistical differences in various qualities between men and women.  There obviously are, e.g. for height.  I also couldn&#8217;t care less.  What I care about is removing barriers to people living their lives as they want to, and combating the kind of prejudice that elevates local conditions to laws of nature.</p>
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		<title>By: doug bennion</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24540</link>
		<dc:creator>doug bennion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 23:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24540</guid>
		<description>Sean: That would my &#039;home-spun folk wisdom&#039; I suspect. You knee-jerked a thoughtless response. You know the bridge scene? You have played high-level competitive bridge? You have interviewed bridge players male and female about the gender difference in bridge achievements? Do you have any idea of what kind of talents are required to play the game at a high level? Of course you don&#039;t; my comments if accurate simply don&#039;t fit your view of how you think the world should be.

On this gender brain difference issue, it bemuses me that it is always the supposed male advantage that is under attack and doubted and scorned and explained away, and never the supposed female advantage. What is wrong with all our little boys that they cannot keep up to the little girls in reading and comprehension and verbal skills? Those differences are never tackled, they are assumed to be innate female advantages and heck, I accept that. Don&#039;t you? Or do you believe men have the capacity to be as strong as women in those areas but, what, society or the educational system or whatever, is holding men back and unduly and unfairly depriving them of equal verbal skills?

Where does it say that females can have unquestioned innate advantages in some areas, and males cannot in others? If females are as equal as men in the (alleged) men&#039;s strengths, and more than equal in their own, then doesn&#039;t that make females more than equal in the aggregate? Gee how fair is that?

We&#039;re different. Viva it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean: That would my &#8216;home-spun folk wisdom&#8217; I suspect. You knee-jerked a thoughtless response. You know the bridge scene? You have played high-level competitive bridge? You have interviewed bridge players male and female about the gender difference in bridge achievements? Do you have any idea of what kind of talents are required to play the game at a high level? Of course you don&#8217;t; my comments if accurate simply don&#8217;t fit your view of how you think the world should be.</p>
<p>On this gender brain difference issue, it bemuses me that it is always the supposed male advantage that is under attack and doubted and scorned and explained away, and never the supposed female advantage. What is wrong with all our little boys that they cannot keep up to the little girls in reading and comprehension and verbal skills? Those differences are never tackled, they are assumed to be innate female advantages and heck, I accept that. Don&#8217;t you? Or do you believe men have the capacity to be as strong as women in those areas but, what, society or the educational system or whatever, is holding men back and unduly and unfairly depriving them of equal verbal skills?</p>
<p>Where does it say that females can have unquestioned innate advantages in some areas, and males cannot in others? If females are as equal as men in the (alleged) men&#8217;s strengths, and more than equal in their own, then doesn&#8217;t that make females more than equal in the aggregate? Gee how fair is that?</p>
<p>We&#8217;re different. Viva it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24516</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 21:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24516</guid>
		<description>I doesn&#039;t matter how many serious studies you do, how carefully you control for all the variables, how patiently you explain the concepts of selection effects and systematic errors, how much data you collect on egregious bias.  Some guy is always going to come along with some home-spun folk wisdom and an unshakable conviction that his gender is superior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doesn&#8217;t matter how many serious studies you do, how carefully you control for all the variables, how patiently you explain the concepts of selection effects and systematic errors, how much data you collect on egregious bias.  Some guy is always going to come along with some home-spun folk wisdom and an unshakable conviction that his gender is superior.</p>
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		<title>By: doug bennion</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24518</link>
		<dc:creator>doug bennion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 21:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24518</guid>
		<description>I cannot speak for the world of chess, but I can for the world of competitive bridge. Bridge is very much a deep intellectual pursuit, and in the long term is a 100% skill game, although luck does play a role in the short term. Many chess players also play bridge; it seems to attract the same kinds of personalities, although bridge is a more social game and not quite so hard on the ego. After all, you have an idiot partner to blame if the match goes wrong.

I don&#039;t have exact numbers, I&#039;m not sure they exist, but in my experience there are at least as many women who play the game as men.

Ask any bridge player, even female players, and there will be close to unanimous agreement that men are stronger players. The average male is a stronger player. The top levels, the national and world tournaments, are all hugely dominated by males. At the toughest competitions, 95% of the entrants will be males.

At tournaments, women even have their own separate contests. There is a Women&#039;s Pairs event, for example. These contests exist to give women a better chance of winning; the competition simply isn&#039;t as strong.

(As an aside, there used to be separate men&#039;s events as well, and those were the toughest events. Those ended maybe 20 years ago when a couple of females sued to play in the Men&#039;s events, and rather than face a protracted and expensive court challenge, the bridge authorities caved and ended all men-only events. Gee thanks. No male has sued to play in the female events.)

Men are more aggressive at the tables and they seem to see deeper into the complexities of card-play.

I read somewhere once, that males are generally better at drilling down on one complex issue, whereas females are better at multitasking. Certainly men can drill down at the bridge table better than women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot speak for the world of chess, but I can for the world of competitive bridge. Bridge is very much a deep intellectual pursuit, and in the long term is a 100% skill game, although luck does play a role in the short term. Many chess players also play bridge; it seems to attract the same kinds of personalities, although bridge is a more social game and not quite so hard on the ego. After all, you have an idiot partner to blame if the match goes wrong.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have exact numbers, I&#8217;m not sure they exist, but in my experience there are at least as many women who play the game as men.</p>
<p>Ask any bridge player, even female players, and there will be close to unanimous agreement that men are stronger players. The average male is a stronger player. The top levels, the national and world tournaments, are all hugely dominated by males. At the toughest competitions, 95% of the entrants will be males.</p>
<p>At tournaments, women even have their own separate contests. There is a Women&#8217;s Pairs event, for example. These contests exist to give women a better chance of winning; the competition simply isn&#8217;t as strong.</p>
<p>(As an aside, there used to be separate men&#8217;s events as well, and those were the toughest events. Those ended maybe 20 years ago when a couple of females sued to play in the Men&#8217;s events, and rather than face a protracted and expensive court challenge, the bridge authorities caved and ended all men-only events. Gee thanks. No male has sued to play in the female events.)</p>
<p>Men are more aggressive at the tables and they seem to see deeper into the complexities of card-play.</p>
<p>I read somewhere once, that males are generally better at drilling down on one complex issue, whereas females are better at multitasking. Certainly men can drill down at the bridge table better than women.</p>
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		<title>By: Dadblog &#187; Why active discrimation in education matters</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24517</link>
		<dc:creator>Dadblog &#187; Why active discrimation in education matters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 21:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24517</guid>
		<description>[...] And read this on almost the same subject. Loving Cosmic Variance at the moment. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And read this on almost the same subject. Loving Cosmic Variance at the moment. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/comment-page-1/#comment-24519</link>
		<dc:creator>JoAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 02:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/01/31/king-me/#comment-24519</guid>
		<description>Brad,  you are absolutely correct that women get appointed to these cmtte&#039;s earlier on in their career and that they tend to be appointed to more of these things.  In fact, it&#039;s something us women have to watch out for and learn how to say no to, unless we feel the work will be worthwhile.  However, for the example in hand, the guy and I have essentially the same seniority, we&#039;re only separated by a couple of years, and after just checking I found that I actually have more publications and cites.

Most importantly, please let me be clear:  I was not making a dig at Sean.  There isn&#039;t anybody I respect more.  I was merely trying to illustrate how easy it is for any of us to say something that can discount a woman&#039;s impact.  It truly happens quite often! I apologize to Sean that my comment was so poorly written and so easily misconstrued.

Now, back to my calculations of Supersymmetry at the Linear Collider...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,  you are absolutely correct that women get appointed to these cmtte&#8217;s earlier on in their career and that they tend to be appointed to more of these things.  In fact, it&#8217;s something us women have to watch out for and learn how to say no to, unless we feel the work will be worthwhile.  However, for the example in hand, the guy and I have essentially the same seniority, we&#8217;re only separated by a couple of years, and after just checking I found that I actually have more publications and cites.</p>
<p>Most importantly, please let me be clear:  I was not making a dig at Sean.  There isn&#8217;t anybody I respect more.  I was merely trying to illustrate how easy it is for any of us to say something that can discount a woman&#8217;s impact.  It truly happens quite often! I apologize to Sean that my comment was so poorly written and so easily misconstrued.</p>
<p>Now, back to my calculations of Supersymmetry at the Linear Collider&#8230;</p>
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