Comments on: The Tremulous Punditosphere http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:42:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: TxtEdMacs http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25889 TxtEdMacs Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:29:34 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25889 I think you have not given bloggers sufficient credit - they can and do exceed the conventional press. Do not take my word for it, however, here is a quote taken from the Daily Kos pertaining to blog coverage of the Libby trial: " ... former chair of the NYU journalism program) Jay Rosen marvels at their accomplishment, and says their coverage bested the traditional media's efforts." Followed by his actual comments: " FDL had more people on the story (six contributors, all housed together). They cared more about documenting every turn. They knew more about the case because they had been writing about it for longer, and they didn't want to disappoint their supporters. But wait a minute: bloggers do views, not news, right? They're like a giant op-ed page, but without decorum. Bloggers are parasitic on reporting that originates elsewhere. Bloggers have an ax to grind, so their reports aren't going to be reliable. Besides, bloggers don't do reporting, really. Their trade is opinion ("...and don't get me wrong, I think that's great.") These ideas are "fixed" points for a lot of journalists. And the example of Firedoglake at the Libby trial disconfirms them all. It was the most basic kind of journalism imaginable. You're my eyes and ears, Christy. Tell me what happened today. When it came time to interpret, to get inside the heads of the key actors, they rose to that challenge too. (Here's video of FDL's Jane Hamsher, Christy Hardin Smith and Marcy Wheeler after closing arguments.) [...] [Marcy's] Anatomy of Deceit was the best primer available for the trial, in my opinion [...] "Even as they exploit the newest technologies, the Libby trial bloggers are a throwback to a journalistic style of decades ago, when many reporters made no pretense of political neutrality," wrote Scott Shane in a New York Times feature (Feb. 15). "Compared with the sober, neutral drudges of the establishment press, the bloggers are class clowns and crusaders, satirists and scolds." True, and this is part of their appeal. They also recorded more of the event in "just the facts" style than the neutrals in the establishment press. So who's the drudge of what is news? I'm just advising Newsroom Joe and Jill: make room for FDL in your own ideas about what's coming on, news-wise. Don't let your own formula (blog=opinion) fake you out. A conspiracy of the like minded to find out what happened when the national news media isn't inclined to tell us might be way more practical than you think." Here is the link so that you can read it yourself: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/12/13111/5666 Bloggers have covered stories well in advance of the regular press and in too many cases did it better, despite their lack of resources. Pretty sad state. I think you have not given bloggers sufficient credit – they can and do exceed the conventional press. Do not take my word for it, however, here is a quote taken from the Daily Kos pertaining to blog coverage of the Libby trial: ” … former chair of the NYU journalism program) Jay Rosen marvels at their accomplishment, and says their coverage bested the traditional media’s efforts.”

Followed by his actual comments: ” FDL had more people on the story (six contributors, all housed together). They cared more about documenting every turn. They knew more about the case because they had been writing about it for longer, and they didn’t want to disappoint their supporters.

But wait a minute: bloggers do views, not news, right? They’re like a giant op-ed page, but without decorum. Bloggers are parasitic on reporting that originates elsewhere. Bloggers have an ax to grind, so their reports aren’t going to be reliable. Besides, bloggers don’t do reporting, really. Their trade is opinion (“…and don’t get me wrong, I think that’s great.”) These ideas are “fixed” points for a lot of journalists. And the example of Firedoglake at the Libby trial disconfirms them all.

It was the most basic kind of journalism imaginable. You’re my eyes and ears, Christy. Tell me what happened today. When it came time to interpret, to get inside the heads of the key actors, they rose to that challenge too. (Here’s video of FDL’s Jane Hamsher, Christy Hardin Smith and Marcy Wheeler after closing arguments.) [...]

[Marcy's] Anatomy of Deceit was the best primer available for the trial, in my opinion [...]

“Even as they exploit the newest technologies, the Libby trial bloggers are a throwback to a journalistic style of decades ago, when many reporters made no pretense of political neutrality,” wrote Scott Shane in a New York Times feature (Feb. 15). “Compared with the sober, neutral drudges of the establishment press, the bloggers are class clowns and crusaders, satirists and scolds.”

True, and this is part of their appeal. They also recorded more of the event in “just the facts” style than the neutrals in the establishment press. So who’s the drudge of what is news? I’m just advising Newsroom Joe and Jill: make room for FDL in your own ideas about what’s coming on, news-wise. Don’t let your own formula (blog=opinion) fake you out. A conspiracy of the like minded to find out what happened when the national news media isn’t inclined to tell us might be way more practical than you think.”

Here is the link so that you can read it yourself: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/12/13111/5666

Bloggers have covered stories well in advance of the regular press and in too many cases did it better, despite their lack of resources. Pretty sad state.

]]> By: Sean http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25891 Sean Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:09:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25891 A marginally-careful reading of what I actually wrote would reveal that the "these guys" who are interested in getting Democrats elected were not the same people I suggested would make good columnists. A marginally-careful reading of what I actually wrote would reveal that the “these guys” who are interested in getting Democrats elected were not the same people I suggested would make good columnists.

]]> By: Jesse M. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25888 Jesse M. Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:52:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25888 Lab Lemming wrote: <i>You stated the main problem with using these guys as columnists here: "These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected" Only the choir wants to listen to a preacher, and the traditional media likes to at least maintain the sembalance of independence.</i> and Barry responded: <i>If the MSM columnists were devoted to getting Democrats elected, then they've chosen a stranged way of doing i t- bashing Clinton for 8 years, bashing Gore, and favoring Bush. Even now, they follow public opinion, as the administration sinks.</i> Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Lab Lemming referred to the problem with using "these guys" as columnists, wasn't he/she referring to bloggers like Atrios and Kos, not to MSM columnists? The thing about being devoted to getting Democrats elected was presumably a reference to Sean's earlier comment about Atrios and Kos: <i> And anyone who has read Kos's amusing takedown of Dennis Kucinich would be hard-pressed to describe him as a rabid leftist. These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected, not promoting some sort of anarcho-communism.</i> Lab Lemming wrote:

You stated the main problem with using these guys as columnists here:
“These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected”
Only the choir wants to listen to a preacher, and the traditional media likes to at least maintain the sembalance of independence.

and Barry responded:

If the MSM columnists were devoted to getting Democrats elected, then they’ve chosen a stranged way of doing i t- bashing Clinton for 8 years, bashing Gore, and favoring Bush. Even now, they follow public opinion, as the administration sinks.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but when Lab Lemming referred to the problem with using “these guys” as columnists, wasn’t he/she referring to bloggers like Atrios and Kos, not to MSM columnists? The thing about being devoted to getting Democrats elected was presumably a reference to Sean’s earlier comment about Atrios and Kos:

And anyone who has read Kos’s amusing takedown of Dennis Kucinich would be hard-pressed to describe him as a rabid leftist. These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected, not promoting some sort of anarcho-communism.

]]> By: Cherry Picks (3.10.2007) « the rumors were true http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25890 Cherry Picks (3.10.2007) « the rumors were true Sat, 10 Mar 2007 05:33:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25890 [...] The Tremulous Punditosphere Fascinating synopsis of the divide in ability (and accountability) between pundits in the mainstream media versus those in the blogosphere. Problem is, these are subjective criteria. What typically happens in the MSM is that, by some quite mysterious process, an editor or publisher decides that some particular person with opinions would make a good pundit, whether its because of the sparkle of their prose or the cut of their jib. A column or regular TV appearances are granted. And then, amazingly, they're in forever. Rarely are columnists fired for not making sense; once they claim that status, they tend to keep it, no matter how pointless or uninformed their work turns out to be. It's as if the NBA drafted players straight out of high school, but then they never had to play a game; they all just received long-term contracts, with salaries based on how good they look during lay-up drills and dunk contests. Maureen Dowd will be taking up space on the New York Times Op-Ed pages for decades to come. [...] [...] The Tremulous Punditosphere Fascinating synopsis of the divide in ability (and accountability) between pundits in the mainstream media versus those in the blogosphere. Problem is, these are subjective criteria. What typically happens in the MSM is that, by some quite mysterious process, an editor or publisher decides that some particular person with opinions would make a good pundit, whether its because of the sparkle of their prose or the cut of their jib. A column or regular TV appearances are granted. And then, amazingly, they’re in forever. Rarely are columnists fired for not making sense; once they claim that status, they tend to keep it, no matter how pointless or uninformed their work turns out to be. It’s as if the NBA drafted players straight out of high school, but then they never had to play a game; they all just received long-term contracts, with salaries based on how good they look during lay-up drills and dunk contests. Maureen Dowd will be taking up space on the New York Times Op-Ed pages for decades to come. [...]

]]> By: mtraven http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25895 mtraven Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:20:53 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25895 Excellent post, but what's wrong with Frank Rich? Maybe you meant to say "Tom Friedman", which would make more sense. Excellent post, but what’s wrong with Frank Rich? Maybe you meant to say “Tom Friedman”, which would make more sense.

]]> By: Lab Lemming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25894 Lab Lemming Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:24:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25894 Barry, I quoted Sean's mention of the Democratic party as an example of partisanship, not as an example of liberal favoratism. As an anti-partisan, I don't care which side the shills spin for. My point is that partisanship is boring and antithetical to scientific communication. As for the ability of newspaper columns to age, that is primarily determined by the type of fish that they wrap. Barry,
I quoted Sean’s mention of the Democratic party as an example of partisanship, not as an example of liberal favoratism. As an anti-partisan, I don’t care which side the shills spin for. My point is that partisanship is boring and antithetical to scientific communication. As for the ability of newspaper columns to age, that is primarily determined by the type of fish that they wrap.

]]> By: Elliot http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25893 Elliot Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:16:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25893 The MSM folks have pints of hard liquor in their desk drawers, and are pissed that these wine sipping web interlopers are taking their eyeballs. The MSM folks have pints of hard liquor in their desk drawers, and are pissed that these wine sipping web interlopers are taking their eyeballs.

]]> By: Allyson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25892 Allyson Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:57:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25892 I've no idea how I feel about this piece, Sean. But it does remind me that I miss Molly Ivins. I’ve no idea how I feel about this piece, Sean.

But it does remind me that I miss Molly Ivins.

]]> By: Josh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25880 Josh Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:54:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25880 Even with an influx of talented pundits, the state of the ordinary MSM would not necessarily change. If given a large contract up front, even talented writers might lose motivation. A modification of the contract structure of op-ed writers, etc., however, would have a significant effect on MSMs. If writers were no longer blindly guaranteed many years and dollars, there would suddenly be room for hiring multiple talented bloggers (and if the bloggers fail to live up to their potential, they would lose a job as well). Essentially, the media would be wise to follow the model of professional sports. Even with an influx of talented pundits, the state of the ordinary MSM would not necessarily change. If given a large contract up front, even talented writers might lose motivation.
A modification of the contract structure of op-ed writers, etc., however, would have a significant effect on MSMs. If writers were no longer blindly guaranteed many years and dollars, there would suddenly be room for hiring multiple talented bloggers (and if the bloggers fail to live up to their potential, they would lose a job as well). Essentially, the media would be wise to follow the model of professional sports.

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25881 Arun Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:20:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25881 Frank Rich at the NYT is pretty good (one among the (diminishing) reasons as to why I subscribe to the newspaper) and I wouldn't want him replaced. Frank Rich at the NYT is pretty good (one among the (diminishing) reasons as to why I subscribe to the newspaper) and I wouldn’t want him replaced.

]]> By: Belizean http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25885 Belizean Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:33:46 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25885 <blockquote>Most journalists probably do self-identify as liberals...</blockquote> Amusingly understated.

Most journalists probably do self-identify as liberals…

Amusingly understated.

]]> By: Barry http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25882 Barry Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:58:19 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25882 Lab Lemming on Mar 5th, 2007 at 3:56 am "Sean, You stated the main problem with using these guys as columnists here: "These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected" Only the choir wants to listen to a preacher, and the traditional media likes to at least maintain the sembalance of independence. I stopped reading Paul Krugman long before I stopped reading Maureen Dowd for this very reason. " If the MSM columnists were devoted to getting Democrats elected, then they've chosen a stranged way of doing i t- bashing Clinton for 8 years, bashing Gore, and favoring Bush. Even now, they follow public opinion, as the administration sinks. As for Krugman vs Dowd, whose columns have aged better? Krugman was telling the truth when Dowd was cattily discussing Gore's clothing. Lab Lemming on Mar 5th, 2007 at 3:56 am
“Sean,
You stated the main problem with using these guys as columnists here:
“These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected”
Only the choir wants to listen to a preacher, and the traditional media likes to at least maintain the sembalance of independence. I stopped reading Paul Krugman long before I stopped reading Maureen Dowd for this very reason. ”

If the MSM columnists were devoted to getting Democrats elected, then they’ve chosen a stranged way of doing i t- bashing Clinton for 8 years, bashing Gore, and favoring Bush. Even now, they follow public opinion, as the administration sinks.

As for Krugman vs Dowd, whose columns have aged better? Krugman was telling the truth when Dowd was cattily discussing Gore’s clothing.

]]> By: Shakespeare's Sister http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25883 Shakespeare's Sister Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:51:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25883 From your keyboard to the fates' ears, darling! ;-) From your keyboard to the fates’ ears, darling! ;-)

]]> By: joe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25884 joe Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:13:17 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25884 Recent PBS/Frontline show (a source of REAL journalism, btw) on "News": http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newswar/ They talk about how MSM is junk putting out "junk", the impact of blogosphere ("citizen journalism"). Real journalism is replaced by sensationalism to get ratings, which is the basis for advertising dollars. "Junk Food society" goes beyond the news arena, it exists in Academia as well: Junk Research. "Quality of proposed research project take a back seat to how much MONEY the research project brings in". Many universities (Stanford especially), preach to the Almighty Dollar. Recent PBS/Frontline show (a source of REAL journalism, btw) on “News”:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newswar/

They talk about how MSM is junk putting out “junk”, the impact of blogosphere (“citizen journalism”). Real journalism is replaced by sensationalism to get ratings, which is the basis for advertising dollars.

“Junk Food society” goes beyond the news arena, it exists in Academia as well: Junk Research. “Quality of proposed research project take a back seat to how much MONEY the research project brings in”. Many universities (Stanford especially), preach to the Almighty Dollar.

]]> By: Lab Lemming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25886 Lab Lemming Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:56:25 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25886 Sean, You stated the main problem with using these guys as columnists here: "These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected" Only the choir wants to listen to a preacher, and the traditional media likes to at least maintain the sembalance of independence. I stopped reading Paul Krugman long before I stopped reading Maureen Dowd for this very reason. In fact, the general form of the activist/ propagandist promoter is indistinguishable from that of the pseudoscientist. Formulate an unmoving position, then beg, borrow, or fake evidence to support that position. I don't see how supporting or encouraging this type of though process anywhere makes science education any easier. Sean,
You stated the main problem with using these guys as columnists here:
“These guys are devoted to the idea of getting Democrats elected”
Only the choir wants to listen to a preacher, and the traditional media likes to at least maintain the sembalance of independence. I stopped reading Paul Krugman long before I stopped reading Maureen Dowd for this very reason.

In fact, the general form of the activist/ propagandist promoter is indistinguishable from that of the pseudoscientist. Formulate an unmoving position, then beg, borrow, or fake evidence to support that position. I don’t see how supporting or encouraging this type of though process anywhere makes science education any easier.

]]> By: kapakapa http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25887 kapakapa Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:00:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25887 'Annoying as they may be at times, the MSM are still the primary source for information about what is going on in the world.' As far as the MSTVM news go, you will not learn what goes on in the world. CNN should be ashamed of calling it 'a 24hours news station'. They repeat ad nausium the same domestic news, but hardly a single in depth reporting of foreign news. Why wouldn't they allocate Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, etc. hours with original feeds from various countries with subtitles or translations? The US-centric-ness of the TV news is vexing to say the least. It always seems odd to me that the majority of guest commentaters are folks from private research institutes possibly with partizan views or corporate affiliations, rather than university professors who may have more independent views and expertise. In any event it is encouraging that MSM is finally turning toward blogosphere for some fresh inputs. Whether the impacts will be reflected in their news pieces may depend more on other dynamics. ‘Annoying as they may be at times, the MSM are still the primary source for information about what is going on in the world.’

As far as the MSTVM news go, you will not learn what goes on in the world. CNN should be ashamed of calling it ‘a 24hours news station’. They repeat ad nausium the same domestic news, but hardly a single in depth reporting of foreign news. Why wouldn’t they allocate Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, etc. hours with original feeds from various countries with subtitles or translations? The US-centric-ness of the TV news is vexing to say the least.

It always seems odd to me that the majority of guest commentaters are folks from private research institutes possibly with partizan views or corporate affiliations, rather than university professors who may have more independent views and expertise.

In any event it is encouraging that MSM is finally turning toward blogosphere for some fresh inputs. Whether the impacts will be reflected in their news pieces may depend more on other dynamics.

]]> By: spyder http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25875 spyder Mon, 05 Mar 2007 00:15:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25875 Just a brief word from those of us who really are anarcho-commie /radical /eco-terrorist / extremist freaks. We too are being mischaracterized and castigated by these forms of mediocre discourse in the MSM. In terms of actual numbers we are a miniscule population (most of the academic members of the set pretty much all know one another--most of the radical enviro-activists likewise all know one another), yet we are constantly referenced as some all-encompassing symbol of all that is evil on the left. Few, even on the left, actually have any idea of the philosophical principles and ideas that inform our thoughts and actions. How many of you have read Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri's <i>Empire</i>? How many have read any of the publications of Crimethinc, or RSS feed "Watching America"? It is easy to lump the far left, the radical left, into one big soup pot of craziness. Joe Klein does so without one single neural connection based in reality or fact. We, more than any other leftist group marked along the spectrum of all that is left of the mythical (much too far to the right) center, criticize and rebuke those with us whose actions and deeds have damaged our efforts to reshape the future of a better, healthier, sustainable planet. Yet we continue to be the "enemy" for everyone to our immediate and even relatively proximal, right. And yes, unless you read blogs and papers in Dutch, German, and Danish, you really would have no idea behind what is happening in Denmark. The usual MSM noise completely overshadows and hides the ongoing philosophical debates. Just a brief word from those of us who really are anarcho-commie /radical /eco-terrorist / extremist freaks. We too are being mischaracterized and castigated by these forms of mediocre discourse in the MSM. In terms of actual numbers we are a miniscule population (most of the academic members of the set pretty much all know one another–most of the radical enviro-activists likewise all know one another), yet we are constantly referenced as some all-encompassing symbol of all that is evil on the left. Few, even on the left, actually have any idea of the philosophical principles and ideas that inform our thoughts and actions. How many of you have read Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri’s Empire? How many have read any of the publications of Crimethinc, or RSS feed “Watching America”? It is easy to lump the far left, the radical left, into one big soup pot of craziness. Joe Klein does so without one single neural connection based in reality or fact. We, more than any other leftist group marked along the spectrum of all that is left of the mythical (much too far to the right) center, criticize and rebuke those with us whose actions and deeds have damaged our efforts to reshape the future of a better, healthier, sustainable planet. Yet we continue to be the “enemy” for everyone to our immediate and even relatively proximal, right.

And yes, unless you read blogs and papers in Dutch, German, and Danish, you really would have no idea behind what is happening in Denmark. The usual MSM noise completely overshadows and hides the ongoing philosophical debates.

]]> By: A former student http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25879 A former student Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:38:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25879 oops, the previous post above this was mine (and not the first chemist_here). sorry. oops, the previous post above this was mine (and not the first chemist_here). sorry.

]]> By: chemist_here http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25876 chemist_here Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:37:23 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25876 It is probably true that it would be nice to have a better set of columnists, but what is to say that they would not turn into the same people being reviled? I think it is not so much smarts as the fact that being a mainstream columnist in the establishment brings with it certain pressures and changes which few (in my opinion) have easy immunity against. The one notable counterexample is Paul Krugman, and he does not have to keep anyone happy or comfortable and is in a pretty untouchable position himself, hence he can say what he thinks without worrying too much about how this plays with others in the "establishment". The fact is that it pays off very well for gents like Tim Russert and Joe Klein to be cozy with the establishment and not be completely honest on important issues. It is probably true that it would be nice to have a better set of columnists, but what is to say that they would not turn into the same people being reviled? I think it is not so much smarts as the fact that being a mainstream columnist in the establishment brings with it certain pressures and changes which few (in my opinion) have easy immunity against. The one notable counterexample is Paul Krugman, and he does not have to keep anyone happy or comfortable and is in a pretty untouchable position himself, hence he can say what he thinks without worrying too much about how this plays with others in the “establishment”. The fact is that it pays off very well for gents like Tim Russert and Joe Klein to be cozy with the establishment and not be completely honest on important issues.

]]> By: chemist_here http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/comment-page-1/#comment-25878 chemist_here Sun, 04 Mar 2007 21:20:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/04/the-tremulous-punditosphere/#comment-25878 Sean, you raise a very important point, which is MSM's attempt to cross over to something more like blogging, but more in name than in substance. And speaking of which, did you see USA Today's site redesign? http://www.usatoday.com/ Basically they are trying what I guess you would call a whole "Web 2.0" interactive approach, with commenting, and what looks like a Digg-type functionality. Your post makes an important distinction between opinion/editorials, and 'news'. I think you put it quite succinctly when you said, "Not everyone has opinions that are interesting, or the ability to defend them persuasively using information and rational argument." With redesigns like USA Today becoming increasingly common, be it something genuine or just an attempt to cash in on interactivity, I have to ask myself, is this really a good thing? On the one hand, it can really cut the crap for exactly the reasons you mentioned. On the other hand, does every article on earth really need a peanut gallery? Our local paper recently did a similar renovation, this MSM/blogosphere crossover type attempt, and overall I think it has stifled interaction and not improved it. There are the same 20 blowhards who have to comment on every article, leaving the rest of us to roll our eyes and not bother sticking our necks out. Maybe the happy medium would be pundits chosen from the blogger meritocracy, as you put it, while the actual news and in-depth pieces are still more traditional MSM without the peanut gallery. In that sense the Guardian in the UK and a few other papers have struck a decent enough balance. Sean, you raise a very important point, which is MSM’s attempt to cross over to something more like blogging, but more in name than in substance. And speaking of which, did you see USA Today’s site redesign?
http://www.usatoday.com/
Basically they are trying what I guess you would call a whole “Web 2.0″ interactive approach, with commenting, and what looks like a Digg-type functionality.

Your post makes an important distinction between opinion/editorials, and ‘news’. I think you put it quite succinctly when you said, “Not everyone has opinions that are interesting, or the ability to defend them persuasively using information and rational argument.”

With redesigns like USA Today becoming increasingly common, be it something genuine or just an attempt to cash in on interactivity, I have to ask myself, is this really a good thing? On the one hand, it can really cut the crap for exactly the reasons you mentioned. On the other hand, does every article on earth really need a peanut gallery? Our local paper recently did a similar renovation, this MSM/blogosphere crossover type attempt, and overall I think it has stifled interaction and not improved it. There are the same 20 blowhards who have to comment on every article, leaving the rest of us to roll our eyes and not bother sticking our necks out.

Maybe the happy medium would be pundits chosen from the blogger meritocracy, as you put it, while the actual news and in-depth pieces are still more traditional MSM without the peanut gallery. In that sense the Guardian in the UK and a few other papers have struck a decent enough balance.

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