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	<title>Comments on: Catholic Priest Proposes New Model for Creation</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Update: Lemaitre vs. Hubble &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26088</link>
		<dc:creator>Update: Lemaitre vs. Hubble &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26088</guid>
		<description>[...] previously celebrated Father Georges-Henri Lemaitre on this very blog, for taking seriously the idea of the Big Bang. His name has come up again in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previously celebrated Father Georges-Henri Lemaitre on this very blog, for taking seriously the idea of the Big Bang. His name has come up again in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Focus &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26087</link>
		<dc:creator>Focus &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 17:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26087</guid>
		<description>[...] Now, you know me. Not really the Divinity-School type. But still, I&#8217;m thinking, that&#8217;s interesting. Shows a certain intellectual curiosity to study religion and then move on to physics. There&#8217;s some successful tradition there. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Now, you know me. Not really the Divinity-School type. But still, I&#8217;m thinking, that&#8217;s interesting. Shows a certain intellectual curiosity to study religion and then move on to physics. There&#8217;s some successful tradition there. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Uitti</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26039</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Uitti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26039</guid>
		<description>So it appears that ten digits of pi are all you need in my Newtonian 3d world.

So my friend who lives on an Earth that is about 6,000 years old is possilbly completely correct with his pi = 3 idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it appears that ten digits of pi are all you need in my Newtonian 3d world.</p>
<p>So my friend who lives on an Earth that is about 6,000 years old is possilbly completely correct with his pi = 3 idea.</p>
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		<title>By: nc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26066</link>
		<dc:creator>nc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26066</guid>
		<description>&#039;Popular accounts, and even astronomers, talk about expanding space. But how is it possible for space ... to expand? ... &#039;Good question,&#039; says [Steven] Weinberg. &#039;The answer is: space does not expand. Cosmologists sometimes talk about expanding space â€&quot; but they should know better.&#039; [Martin] Rees agrees wholeheartedly. &#039;Expanding space is a very unhelpful concept&#039;.&#039;

â€&quot; New Scientist, 17 April 1993, pp32-3.

Spacetime &lt;i&gt;contracts around masses; the earth&#039;s radius is contracted by 1.5 mm&lt;/i&gt; radially (the circumference or transverse dimension is unaffected, hence the fourth dimension is needed to keep Pi constant via curvature) by its gravitation.  Time is also slowed down.

This is pretty obvious in cause - exchange radiation causes radial contraction of masses in general relativity, just as in special relativity you get contraction of moving masses.  Take the Lorentz contraction, stick the Newtonian escape velocity into it, and you get Feynman&#039;s simplified (1/3)MG/c^2 formula for gravitational radial contraction in general relativity (you have to put in the 1/3 factor manually because a moving object only has contraction in one dimension, whereas the contraction is shared over 3 dimensions in GR).  The justification here is that the escape velocity is also the velocity acquired by an object falling from an infinite distance, so it is velocity corresponding to the kinetic energy equivalent to the amount of gravitational potential energy involved.

It&#039;s obvious that spacetime is contracted by gravitation.  Expanding space really just refers to the recession of masses, i.e., expanding volume.

All the experimentally or observationally confirmed parts of general relativity mathematically correspond to simple physical phenomena of exchange radiation in a Yang-Mills quantum field theory.  (Ad hoc theorizing to model observations is not observational confirmation.  E.g., dark energy speculation based on redshift observations, isn&#039;t confirmed by the observations which suggested the speculation.  A better model is that whatever exchange radiation causes quantum gravity when exchanged by receding masses, gets some kind of redshift like light due to the recession of masses, which weakens gravitational effects over large distances.  OK, I know you don&#039;t want to know all the correct predictions which come from this physics, so I&#039;ll stop here.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Popular accounts, and even astronomers, talk about expanding space. But how is it possible for space &#8230; to expand? &#8230; &#8216;Good question,&#8217; says [Steven] Weinberg. &#8216;The answer is: space does not expand. Cosmologists sometimes talk about expanding space â€&#8221; but they should know better.&#8217; [Martin] Rees agrees wholeheartedly. &#8216;Expanding space is a very unhelpful concept&#8217;.&#8217;</p>
<p>â€&#8221; New Scientist, 17 April 1993, pp32-3.</p>
<p>Spacetime <i>contracts around masses; the earth&#8217;s radius is contracted by 1.5 mm</i> radially (the circumference or transverse dimension is unaffected, hence the fourth dimension is needed to keep Pi constant via curvature) by its gravitation.  Time is also slowed down.</p>
<p>This is pretty obvious in cause &#8211; exchange radiation causes radial contraction of masses in general relativity, just as in special relativity you get contraction of moving masses.  Take the Lorentz contraction, stick the Newtonian escape velocity into it, and you get Feynman&#8217;s simplified (1/3)MG/c^2 formula for gravitational radial contraction in general relativity (you have to put in the 1/3 factor manually because a moving object only has contraction in one dimension, whereas the contraction is shared over 3 dimensions in GR).  The justification here is that the escape velocity is also the velocity acquired by an object falling from an infinite distance, so it is velocity corresponding to the kinetic energy equivalent to the amount of gravitational potential energy involved.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s obvious that spacetime is contracted by gravitation.  Expanding space really just refers to the recession of masses, i.e., expanding volume.</p>
<p>All the experimentally or observationally confirmed parts of general relativity mathematically correspond to simple physical phenomena of exchange radiation in a Yang-Mills quantum field theory.  (Ad hoc theorizing to model observations is not observational confirmation.  E.g., dark energy speculation based on redshift observations, isn&#8217;t confirmed by the observations which suggested the speculation.  A better model is that whatever exchange radiation causes quantum gravity when exchanged by receding masses, gets some kind of redshift like light due to the recession of masses, which weakens gravitational effects over large distances.  OK, I know you don&#8217;t want to know all the correct predictions which come from this physics, so I&#8217;ll stop here.)</p>
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		<title>By: George R</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26063</link>
		<dc:creator>George R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26063</guid>
		<description>Alex Nichols re 46:

Thank you very much for the PDF link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex Nichols re 46:</p>
<p>Thank you very much for the PDF link.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Nichols</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26064</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Nichols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26064</guid>
		<description>re 40: Question to Alex Nichols, can you explain a little further on:

&quot;Without introducing the concept of a topology change, there can be no real explanation of what happens when you reach the planck scale.&quot;

Both the &quot;dough &amp; raisin&quot; and the balloon analogies rely on describing the expansion of a 3-d manifold.

However, there is a distinction between inflation and the big bang.
You can explain inflation using a manifold, but as I understand it, if you project the process back to a planck-scale big-bang event, even this description breaks down.  This follows strictly from the equations of Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity.

The problem of course, is what leads to the debates going on between String theorists and Loop Quantum Gravity proponents at the moment.
I tend to think that underlying it, is a problem of philosophical conceptualisation, as much as mathematics.
Something along the lines that expansion of the universe and contraction are in someways dual/indistinguishable, which T-dualityin string theory points towards.

My own take on it is: - there&#039;s no such thing as nothing.

See this succinct paper for the problem: -

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9610/9610066.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re 40: Question to Alex Nichols, can you explain a little further on:</p>
<p>&#8220;Without introducing the concept of a topology change, there can be no real explanation of what happens when you reach the planck scale.&#8221;</p>
<p>Both the &#8220;dough &amp; raisin&#8221; and the balloon analogies rely on describing the expansion of a 3-d manifold.</p>
<p>However, there is a distinction between inflation and the big bang.<br />
You can explain inflation using a manifold, but as I understand it, if you project the process back to a planck-scale big-bang event, even this description breaks down.  This follows strictly from the equations of Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity.</p>
<p>The problem of course, is what leads to the debates going on between String theorists and Loop Quantum Gravity proponents at the moment.<br />
I tend to think that underlying it, is a problem of philosophical conceptualisation, as much as mathematics.<br />
Something along the lines that expansion of the universe and contraction are in someways dual/indistinguishable, which T-dualityin string theory points towards.</p>
<p>My own take on it is: &#8211; there&#8217;s no such thing as nothing.</p>
<p>See this succinct paper for the problem: -</p>
<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9610/9610066.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9610/9610066.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Haelfix</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26065</link>
		<dc:creator>Haelfix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26065</guid>
		<description>I usually cite the balloon example in the last few days of an undergrad course when im talking about spacetime topology (if theres time).  Pointing out that just b/c we have a good grasp on the important dynamics for measuring things, theres still a good deal of wiggle room left in the background.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually cite the balloon example in the last few days of an undergrad course when im talking about spacetime topology (if theres time).  Pointing out that just b/c we have a good grasp on the important dynamics for measuring things, theres still a good deal of wiggle room left in the background.</p>
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		<title>By: John Farrell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26076</link>
		<dc:creator>John Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26076</guid>
		<description>Amara, you&#039;re welcome. And good points. I agree. Sadly, there are not as many Jesuit scientists as they&#039;re used to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amara, you&#8217;re welcome. And good points. I agree. Sadly, there are not as many Jesuit scientists as they&#8217;re used to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse M.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26051</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26051</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Like many contemporary cosmologists, Menzel is a little more definitive about this than he really should be. When asked &quot;What happened before the Bang?&quot;, the correct answer is really &quot;We don&#039;t know. According to general relativity, space and time do not exist before the Bang, so there is no such thing as &#039;before.&#039; However, we have no right to think that general relativity is correct in that regime, so... we don&#039;t know.&quot; Few people are sufficiently straightforwardly honest to give that answer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But was it understood in 1932 that general relativity would eventually need to be replaced by a theory of quantum gravity, and that GR is likely to become significantly inaccurate at the Planck scale? Obviously a good physicist would consider the possibility that GR only worked in certain limits just like Newtonian gravity, but I&#039;m wondering whether Menzel would have had any good sense of what these limits were likely to be, or why GR would be more likely to break down near the moment of the Big Bang than in any other circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Like many contemporary cosmologists, Menzel is a little more definitive about this than he really should be. When asked &#8220;What happened before the Bang?&#8221;, the correct answer is really &#8220;We don&#8217;t know. According to general relativity, space and time do not exist before the Bang, so there is no such thing as &#8216;before.&#8217; However, we have no right to think that general relativity is correct in that regime, so&#8230; we don&#8217;t know.&#8221; Few people are sufficiently straightforwardly honest to give that answer.</p></blockquote>
<p>But was it understood in 1932 that general relativity would eventually need to be replaced by a theory of quantum gravity, and that GR is likely to become significantly inaccurate at the Planck scale? Obviously a good physicist would consider the possibility that GR only worked in certain limits just like Newtonian gravity, but I&#8217;m wondering whether Menzel would have had any good sense of what these limits were likely to be, or why GR would be more likely to break down near the moment of the Big Bang than in any other circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: Amara</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-26067</link>
		<dc:creator>Amara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/03/12/catholic-priest-proposes-new-model-for-creation/#comment-26067</guid>
		<description>John Farrell- thanks for the correction (bad assumption on my part).

Garth- &quot;Is Dawkins Deluded?&quot;
I&#039;m an atheist, I can&#039;t disagree too much with Dawkins, however his firebrand style of presentation on this topic could be better because he&#039;s turned some people off. On the other side, I appreciate the Jesuits alot (and some are my friends) and I think that they could be important communication bridges to show fundamentalists the value of science. I also wonder if Dawkins has spent any time around the Jesuits. I suspect that they would get along very well (they might even make him laugh).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Farrell- thanks for the correction (bad assumption on my part).</p>
<p>Garth- &#8220;Is Dawkins Deluded?&#8221;<br />
I&#8217;m an atheist, I can&#8217;t disagree too much with Dawkins, however his firebrand style of presentation on this topic could be better because he&#8217;s turned some people off. On the other side, I appreciate the Jesuits alot (and some are my friends) and I think that they could be important communication bridges to show fundamentalists the value of science. I also wonder if Dawkins has spent any time around the Jesuits. I suspect that they would get along very well (they might even make him laugh).</p>
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