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	<title>Comments on: How Nice Should We Be to Students?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Bruce Scott</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27724</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27724</guid>
		<description>Dear Students,

Please note that many of us from whom you are waiting for an answer are borderline depressives or really depressives.  Hence the delays in answering emails.  If your professor is both a procrastinator and a borderline depressive then you&#039;ll have to be patient and the best thing in an administrative situation is probably simply to knock on the door.

ciao,
Bruce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Students,</p>
<p>Please note that many of us from whom you are waiting for an answer are borderline depressives or really depressives.  Hence the delays in answering emails.  If your professor is both a procrastinator and a borderline depressive then you&#8217;ll have to be patient and the best thing in an administrative situation is probably simply to knock on the door.</p>
<p>ciao,<br />
Bruce</p>
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		<title>By: Cosmo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27725</link>
		<dc:creator>Cosmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27725</guid>
		<description>I went to Caltech as a physics student, but not because Richard Feynman was there.  As it turns out, the example of Feynman is odd, because Feynman did in fact interact with both undergraduate and graduate students at many levels, and managed to convey to them his attitude and style of physics, much more valuable than the development of particular skills or particular bits of knowledge.  For many years, Feynman gave an unofficial, ungraded, non-credit &quot;joke&quot; class called &quot;Physics X&quot;.  It was held in the evenings in one of the large lecture halls, and consisted basically of Feynman showing up in front of the room with a piece of chalk.  Anyone could join the audience, provided they behaved themselves reasonably well.  Members of the audience would then ask questions, ranging from the elementary to advanced research topics: &quot;Why is the sky blue?&quot; to &quot;How much gallium do you need to make a neutrino detector?&quot; to &quot;How do you quantize the electromagnetic field near a gravitational singularity?&quot;  Feynman would then try to give an answer, together with help from the audience, where he would start from first principles as much as possible (He would say: &quot;I can&#039;t remember much, but I can remember a few simple principles.&quot;).  He would do calculations in his own, ideosyncratic mathematical notation systems, on the blackboard.  There were often amusing asides and anecdotes about his work, or other things that interested him.  Feynman was also known to hang out and BS with undergraduates from time to time, to a much greater degree than any other professor I have ever known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to Caltech as a physics student, but not because Richard Feynman was there.  As it turns out, the example of Feynman is odd, because Feynman did in fact interact with both undergraduate and graduate students at many levels, and managed to convey to them his attitude and style of physics, much more valuable than the development of particular skills or particular bits of knowledge.  For many years, Feynman gave an unofficial, ungraded, non-credit &#8220;joke&#8221; class called &#8220;Physics X&#8221;.  It was held in the evenings in one of the large lecture halls, and consisted basically of Feynman showing up in front of the room with a piece of chalk.  Anyone could join the audience, provided they behaved themselves reasonably well.  Members of the audience would then ask questions, ranging from the elementary to advanced research topics: &#8220;Why is the sky blue?&#8221; to &#8220;How much gallium do you need to make a neutrino detector?&#8221; to &#8220;How do you quantize the electromagnetic field near a gravitational singularity?&#8221;  Feynman would then try to give an answer, together with help from the audience, where he would start from first principles as much as possible (He would say: &#8220;I can&#8217;t remember much, but I can remember a few simple principles.&#8221;).  He would do calculations in his own, ideosyncratic mathematical notation systems, on the blackboard.  There were often amusing asides and anecdotes about his work, or other things that interested him.  Feynman was also known to hang out and BS with undergraduates from time to time, to a much greater degree than any other professor I have ever known.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27740</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27740</guid>
		<description>Marty:

At point 1) The work I do as tutor cannot be compared to teaching at university. I don&#039;t work for a virtual university (i.e. something that comes close to a real university). All I&#039;m saying is that in the near future virtual universities could outperform real universities.

Point 2) I think that things will change gradually. The virtual institutions will have to prove themselves. You can imagine a virtual university avoiding the problems you mention by offering Ph.D. courses to high school graduates. I.e. you get an education and then you&#039;ll have to produce a Ph.D. thesis based on your peer reviewed publications. Your CV will contain a list of publications, no one can argue with that. :)


Later, when the virtual university has made its name, can it also focus on students who only want to do an M.Sc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty:</p>
<p>At point 1) The work I do as tutor cannot be compared to teaching at university. I don&#8217;t work for a virtual university (i.e. something that comes close to a real university). All I&#8217;m saying is that in the near future virtual universities could outperform real universities.</p>
<p>Point 2) I think that things will change gradually. The virtual institutions will have to prove themselves. You can imagine a virtual university avoiding the problems you mention by offering Ph.D. courses to high school graduates. I.e. you get an education and then you&#8217;ll have to produce a Ph.D. thesis based on your peer reviewed publications. Your CV will contain a list of publications, no one can argue with that. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Later, when the virtual university has made its name, can it also focus on students who only want to do an M.Sc.</p>
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		<title>By: twistor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27739</link>
		<dc:creator>twistor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27739</guid>
		<description>I have to say that as a senior level physics undergraduate I expect a certain amount of commitment from the professors whose classes I take.  What I mean by this is that I expect professors to offer some kind of insight into the subject which cannot be easily extracted from the text of a book.

So far I&#039;ve been sorely disappointed.  Most (certainly not all, there have been a few exceptional cases) of the professors I&#039;ve dealt with seem to think of teaching as a burden.  Their lecture styles were uninspired, and for the most part paraphrased (if you were lucky enough not to get a verbatim reading) the book.  I don&#039;t expect professors to be &quot;nice&quot; per se, but what I do expect is an honest attempt to communicate ideas from the subject they are teaching.  This includes thinking of new ways to introduce difficult topics and tying concepts together in a way that sheds light on the unity and synergy of different branches of the subject.

Not everyone can be Richard Feynman, but I believe it&#039;s part of the job you take on when you accept a professorship at a university to pass on knowledge to posterity in the best possible way that you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that as a senior level physics undergraduate I expect a certain amount of commitment from the professors whose classes I take.  What I mean by this is that I expect professors to offer some kind of insight into the subject which cannot be easily extracted from the text of a book.</p>
<p>So far I&#8217;ve been sorely disappointed.  Most (certainly not all, there have been a few exceptional cases) of the professors I&#8217;ve dealt with seem to think of teaching as a burden.  Their lecture styles were uninspired, and for the most part paraphrased (if you were lucky enough not to get a verbatim reading) the book.  I don&#8217;t expect professors to be &#8220;nice&#8221; per se, but what I do expect is an honest attempt to communicate ideas from the subject they are teaching.  This includes thinking of new ways to introduce difficult topics and tying concepts together in a way that sheds light on the unity and synergy of different branches of the subject.</p>
<p>Not everyone can be Richard Feynman, but I believe it&#8217;s part of the job you take on when you accept a professorship at a university to pass on knowledge to posterity in the best possible way that you can.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kupfer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27719</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kupfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27719</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have any real profound to say. I just wanted to say I thought this was a nice post and, even as a high school physics teacher, it gave me some things to think about in terms of my teaching and my college experience.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any real profound to say. I just wanted to say I thought this was a nice post and, even as a high school physics teacher, it gave me some things to think about in terms of my teaching and my college experience.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Herbert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27732</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27732</guid>
		<description>Sometimes the best thing a professor can do is NOT answer your questions. I was a grad student at Stanford with an office across from Shelly Glashow. I had heard that blue lasers were more difficult to make than red lasers and I wondered why. So I decided to ask Glashow.

&quot;Who are you?&quot; he asked.

&quot;I&#039;m a second-year graduate student.&quot;

&quot;Then you should be able to figure that out by yourself,&quot; Glashow replied.

I did and I never forgot the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes the best thing a professor can do is NOT answer your questions. I was a grad student at Stanford with an office across from Shelly Glashow. I had heard that blue lasers were more difficult to make than red lasers and I wondered why. So I decided to ask Glashow.</p>
<p>&#8220;Who are you?&#8221; he asked.</p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m a second-year graduate student.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Then you should be able to figure that out by yourself,&#8221; Glashow replied.</p>
<p>I did and I never forgot the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: dave tweed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27714</link>
		<dc:creator>dave tweed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27714</guid>
		<description>Regarding Count Iblis point about self-study as opposed to lectures/problem classes, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s about &quot;social interactions&quot; as much as having someone to tell you you&#039;re wrong/confused; the social stuff just comes from the &quot;economics&quot; applied to the situation. Indeed, I remember when I was a maths undergrad being told that it was better to actually have a go at all the questions in a problem set rather than insist on spending time working on one question until you&#039;d completely solved it before moving onto the next. The reasoning was that you&#039;d probably run out of time under and not finish all the problems under both approaches, but the first way would give the people giving the tutorial more ideas of the things you&#039;d got mistaken ideas about. That&#039;s what I&#039;d expect would be the emails giving the most sutdent-improving questions would be those where the student rephrases something they&#039;re not certain about and asks if this understanding is correct. (Obviously this only really applies to scientific type subjects.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Count Iblis point about self-study as opposed to lectures/problem classes, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s about &#8220;social interactions&#8221; as much as having someone to tell you you&#8217;re wrong/confused; the social stuff just comes from the &#8220;economics&#8221; applied to the situation. Indeed, I remember when I was a maths undergrad being told that it was better to actually have a go at all the questions in a problem set rather than insist on spending time working on one question until you&#8217;d completely solved it before moving onto the next. The reasoning was that you&#8217;d probably run out of time under and not finish all the problems under both approaches, but the first way would give the people giving the tutorial more ideas of the things you&#8217;d got mistaken ideas about. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;d expect would be the emails giving the most sutdent-improving questions would be those where the student rephrases something they&#8217;re not certain about and asks if this understanding is correct. (Obviously this only really applies to scientific type subjects.)</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Tysanner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27715</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Tysanner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27715</guid>
		<description>Count Iblis,

The benefit of studying books, working book problems, and  having one-on-one tutoring undoubtedly varies from person to person, but I don&#039;t think the on-site learning experience is the most compelling reason to attend a university.  There are other less tangible but crucial benefits of attending a university that cannot be replaced by a ``distance learning&#039;&#039; approach:

1.  The professors and TAs have (usually) been screened by knowledgeable people before given the opportunity to substantially influence others.  Prospective professors may be evaluated on their research rather than teaching ability at many universities, but at least they must know their stuff to get hired.  TAs must usually take coursework (or be subject to high standards before being admitted to a university, e.g., Princeton), and usually pass qualifying exams; they are also evaluated by students and/or professors for their teaching.  I doubt that any for-profit tutoring company will have anywhere near that level of screening before hiring a tutor.  But you should know, since you were hired as a tutor.

2.  Pedigree matters.  When it comes time to look for a job, where you learned counts.  If all you have to say is that you studied a particular set of books and were tutored by some completely unknown person with a PhD who had no affiliation with a recognized organization like a respected university, I can&#039;t imagine very many potential employers getting very excited about you.  I also find it difficult to see funding agencies being thrilled about giving most grants to researchers with no institutional affiliation.

3.  Grades provide some measure of mastery of material, as well as preparation for moving to the next level of material.  Getting grades from a tutor who is payed by you (read:  conflict of interest) is likely to be somewhat meaningless to a graduate school or employer; the grading would be very non-standard and would not be normalized with other tutors or students.

4.  Remote learning would do nothing to address the needs for most kinds of research that are part of a PhD education.  (Presumably you &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; want PhD&#039;s, since they are your future population of qualified tutors.)  Some kinds of theoretical research might be possible remotely, but experimental research would be difficult to do on one&#039;s own.

5.  Design of the curriculum would be problematic.  Having a separate ``standards organization&#039;&#039; that designs curricula and administers some kind of ``exit exam&#039;&#039; that certifies the student as having completed the course of study sounds unworkable.  Who would administer the organization, fund it, judge whether the standards are appropriate, create the tests, and so on?  By the time you do all that, wouldn&#039;t you essentially have a remote university, many of which already exist?

I just don&#039;t see your vision of education in the future as being attractive to a wide audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count Iblis,</p>
<p>The benefit of studying books, working book problems, and  having one-on-one tutoring undoubtedly varies from person to person, but I don&#8217;t think the on-site learning experience is the most compelling reason to attend a university.  There are other less tangible but crucial benefits of attending a university that cannot be replaced by a &#8220;distance learning&#8221; approach:</p>
<p>1.  The professors and TAs have (usually) been screened by knowledgeable people before given the opportunity to substantially influence others.  Prospective professors may be evaluated on their research rather than teaching ability at many universities, but at least they must know their stuff to get hired.  TAs must usually take coursework (or be subject to high standards before being admitted to a university, e.g., Princeton), and usually pass qualifying exams; they are also evaluated by students and/or professors for their teaching.  I doubt that any for-profit tutoring company will have anywhere near that level of screening before hiring a tutor.  But you should know, since you were hired as a tutor.</p>
<p>2.  Pedigree matters.  When it comes time to look for a job, where you learned counts.  If all you have to say is that you studied a particular set of books and were tutored by some completely unknown person with a PhD who had no affiliation with a recognized organization like a respected university, I can&#8217;t imagine very many potential employers getting very excited about you.  I also find it difficult to see funding agencies being thrilled about giving most grants to researchers with no institutional affiliation.</p>
<p>3.  Grades provide some measure of mastery of material, as well as preparation for moving to the next level of material.  Getting grades from a tutor who is payed by you (read:  conflict of interest) is likely to be somewhat meaningless to a graduate school or employer; the grading would be very non-standard and would not be normalized with other tutors or students.</p>
<p>4.  Remote learning would do nothing to address the needs for most kinds of research that are part of a PhD education.  (Presumably you <i>do</i> want PhD&#8217;s, since they are your future population of qualified tutors.)  Some kinds of theoretical research might be possible remotely, but experimental research would be difficult to do on one&#8217;s own.</p>
<p>5.  Design of the curriculum would be problematic.  Having a separate &#8220;standards organization&#8221; that designs curricula and administers some kind of &#8220;exit exam&#8221; that certifies the student as having completed the course of study sounds unworkable.  Who would administer the organization, fund it, judge whether the standards are appropriate, create the tests, and so on?  By the time you do all that, wouldn&#8217;t you essentially have a remote university, many of which already exist?</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t see your vision of education in the future as being attractive to a wide audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Rien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27743</link>
		<dc:creator>Rien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27743</guid>
		<description>About tuitions: it would be good with some numbers here. I guess it varies quite a lot between universities. The overhead on research grants is also far larger in the US than in some other countries. For example at a Swedish university where I worked it was 30%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About tuitions: it would be good with some numbers here. I guess it varies quite a lot between universities. The overhead on research grants is also far larger in the US than in some other countries. For example at a Swedish university where I worked it was 30%.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/comment-page-1/#comment-27718</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/23/how-nice-should-we-be-to-students/#comment-27718</guid>
		<description>fh, I think that the calculus about virtual universities would change a bit if you had to pay huge tuition fee for ordinary universities.

Also, not every student studies in the same way. Some benefit more from social interactions while studying others not.

By not attending any classes and problem sesions you are forcing yourself to completely master the subject yourself. Also, you have more time to do that as less time is wasted at university. I found that to be the best way of studying for me.

I remember going to the university once for an exam (about Fourier transformations and the theory of distributions). Some of my friends were asking what I was doing here, they had never seen me at the course. :)  The exam result was very good for me, I scored 100%. But it was not so good for the other students. One scored 70% and one other scored 60%. All the other students (about 25 in total) had failed the exam.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fh, I think that the calculus about virtual universities would change a bit if you had to pay huge tuition fee for ordinary universities.</p>
<p>Also, not every student studies in the same way. Some benefit more from social interactions while studying others not.</p>
<p>By not attending any classes and problem sesions you are forcing yourself to completely master the subject yourself. Also, you have more time to do that as less time is wasted at university. I found that to be the best way of studying for me.</p>
<p>I remember going to the university once for an exam (about Fourier transformations and the theory of distributions). Some of my friends were asking what I was doing here, they had never seen me at the course. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   The exam result was very good for me, I scored 100%. But it was not so good for the other students. One scored 70% and one other scored 60%. All the other students (about 25 in total) had failed the exam.  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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