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	<title>Comments on: How Did the Universe Start?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:09:16 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Boltzmann&#8217;s Universe &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-78390</link>
		<dc:creator>Boltzmann&#8217;s Universe &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-78390</guid>
		<description>[...] either it&#8217;s not eternal, or there is no state of maximum entropy. I personally believe the latter, but there&#8217;s plenty of work to be done before we have any of this pinned down.               [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] either it&#8217;s not eternal, or there is no state of maximum entropy. I personally believe the latter, but there&#8217;s plenty of work to be done before we have any of this pinned down.               [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-61560</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-61560</guid>
		<description>(the Wow! was because i was so impressed with the subject and posts. I dont understand a few terms, but i get the main idea of it)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(the Wow! was because i was so impressed with the subject and posts. I dont understand a few terms, but i get the main idea of it)</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-61559</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-61559</guid>
		<description>Wow! I am a student studying physics and I have a large presentation to write about the universe. However, it is not about how it started, but rather if the universe were to restart, would it be the same? What is your oppinion on this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! I am a student studying physics and I have a large presentation to write about the universe. However, it is not about how it started, but rather if the universe were to restart, would it be the same? What is your oppinion on this?</p>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28018</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 08:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28018</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s Not A Universe Anymore

A Whole Bunch of Guesses At:

The Formation of (Many) Irregular Galaxies
The Function of Black Holes
The Explanation of a Multi-Singularity Universe

&quot;Irregular galaxies feature neither spiral nor elliptical morphology. They are often chaotic in appearance, with neither a nuclear bulge nor any trace of spiral arm structure. Collectively they are thought to make up about a quarter of all galaxies. Most irregular galaxies were once spiral or elliptical galaxies but were deformed by gravitational action. Irregular galaxies also contain abundant amounts of gas and dust.&quot;

For over ten years I have been puzzled by the explanation of our universe. We have this &quot;Big Bang Theory&quot; which states it all started with the ole singularity. I was only smart enough to come up with two questions regarding this:

1) Isn&#039;t a Black Hole also a singularity?
2) Where did all that energy and matter come from?

If a Black Hole is a singularity then wouldn&#039;t it blow up in our face into another universe? So I asked my scientific type friends and they had no answers. I sometimes read that it&#039;s &quot;a different type of singularity&quot;. Huh? Doesn&#039;t that destroy the definition of singularity itself?

Then the other day I watched Nova. I went into a dreamy state like when I was in fifth grade and the hot teacher read to us from a good book. A feeling I have not felt in a long time. The Nova episode was about Fractal Geometry.

It would seem that fractals explain a great deal about the structure of nature. Life and non-life. Nature is the universe. The universe is nature. Why then would it not explain the structure of the universe? What if one were to apply fractals to our universe? Then one would probably have to come up with at least one &quot;point of self similarity&quot;. The reproduction, the branching, the duplication. If one would apply fractals to the structure of the entire universe it would have to be a point of self similarity on a grand scale. But what if we went to the biggest production we know, the Big Bang?

And that&#039;s where it seems to all come together for me. What if, just what if, singularities are the points of self similarity in our MULTIVERSE? What if the &quot;trunk singularity&quot; is what our conceptualized universe comes from? The &quot;branch singularities&quot; are the ones we see in back holes now. The black hole eventually creates a new universe and sort of &quot;disappears&quot; in the process. Seem impossible? Allow me to quote again, &quot;Most irregular galaxies were once spiral or elliptical galaxies but were deformed by gravitational action.....with neither a nuclear bulge nor any trace of spiral arm structure&quot;. A spiral galaxy is at the end of the guessed &quot;galactic evolution&quot;. What happened to its nucleus? What happened to that black hole? Is there any evidence that a black hole has never &quot;gone away&quot;? What is the evidence of a &quot;disappearing&quot; black hole?

If it&#039;s &quot;Exact Self-Similarity&quot; these would be smaller replica universes or &quot;mini universes&quot; (I type as I point my pinky to the corner of my mouth). If it&#039;s &quot;Quasi-Self-Similarity&quot; it would be smaller copies in distorted and degenerate forms. Or it could be a combination of both.

So if we were made from a big ole black hole that&#039;s where all the wonderful energy and matter came from. Maybe the singularities are very much alike and perhaps only differ in &quot;scale&quot;. Like branches on a tree. The answer to &quot;Why don&#039;t the singularities we see around us blow up into new universes themselves&quot; perhaps can be answered by the simplest yet hardest to accept answer of, &quot;well, they do&quot;. Perhaps we don&#039;t see that &quot;explosion&quot; (or &quot;implosion&quot;) from our position. Maybe we just see a little part of it and then the black hole fades away. The &quot;explosion (implosion)&quot; forms into &quot;another branch universe&quot; that we just can&#039;t see yet (or maybe ever). Let us remember that when one looks at a fractal like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mandel_zoom_00_mandelbrot_set.jpg
One sees that in this model the reproduction could sort of happen &quot;outside of us&quot;. Singularities would represent sort of the &quot;points connecting&quot; the replications. Like the points connecting the smaller black circles to the bigger black circles seen in the drawing.

Perhaps this can help with the concept of parallel universes. Can it help us understand the dark stuff?

If I were to tell you that a universe was created from a singularity then pointed to another singularity and asked you, &quot;What do you think that singularity is going to do?&quot;, what is your natural response? What is your inclination? How about the only thing we know for sure...that there would seem to be the distinct possibility that it creates another universe! If I told you an x created a y, and there&#039;s another x, what do you think is going to happen?

Universe makes Stars
Stars make Galaxy
Galaxy makes Black Hole
Black Hole makes Universe
(REPEAT)
Universe makes Stars
Stars make Galaxy
Galaxy makes Black Hole
Black Hole makes Universe
(REPEAT)
Universe makes Stars
Stars make Galaxy
Galaxy makes Black Hole
Black Hole makes Universe
(REPEAT)

The thing that scares me about this argument is it is so incredibly simple but tackles a great deal. Things like:

Why is our universe a multi-singularity universe? (Instead of just a one singularity universe - the singularity our universe itself was made from).

What is the function of black holes? WHY do they exist?

Why do black holes &quot;eat&quot;? Could it be they eat for the same reason everything else in the universe eats? To grow and reproduce?

Why do we see galaxies that have appeared to have lost their nucleus? (Is there something else going on other than galaxies smashing into each other).

Is everything cyclical? People make people. Branches make branches. Clouds make clouds. Stars make stars. Universes make universes. No matter where you are everthing goes to the virtually infinitely small and the infinitely large.

What we must remember is the proof of the multiverse being a fractal (or fractals) is that the proof does not appear a million light years away inside a black hole but instead all around us. The reflections we see in all things make it extremely hard to toss this theory out the window. These reflections are the agents of self similarity. The way a galaxy looks like a hurricane that looks like sudsy water circling a drain. The way blood vessels look like the outline of a tree which looks like the outline of a mouth of a river. The way the corona of a star looks like iris of your eye. All the circular shapes that dominate our existence.

Scientists will gnash their teeth when they find out the stuff that makes particles is made from other stuff that is made from other stuff that is made from other stuff and so on and worse yet going both ways. What&#039;s that, the atom isn&#039;t the smallest? Now you&#039;re talking about strings and other stuff? LMAO! Aint it great?

Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s Not A Universe Anymore</p>
<p>A Whole Bunch of Guesses At:</p>
<p>The Formation of (Many) Irregular Galaxies<br />
The Function of Black Holes<br />
The Explanation of a Multi-Singularity Universe</p>
<p>&#8220;Irregular galaxies feature neither spiral nor elliptical morphology. They are often chaotic in appearance, with neither a nuclear bulge nor any trace of spiral arm structure. Collectively they are thought to make up about a quarter of all galaxies. Most irregular galaxies were once spiral or elliptical galaxies but were deformed by gravitational action. Irregular galaxies also contain abundant amounts of gas and dust.&#8221;</p>
<p>For over ten years I have been puzzled by the explanation of our universe. We have this &#8220;Big Bang Theory&#8221; which states it all started with the ole singularity. I was only smart enough to come up with two questions regarding this:</p>
<p>1) Isn&#8217;t a Black Hole also a singularity?<br />
2) Where did all that energy and matter come from?</p>
<p>If a Black Hole is a singularity then wouldn&#8217;t it blow up in our face into another universe? So I asked my scientific type friends and they had no answers. I sometimes read that it&#8217;s &#8220;a different type of singularity&#8221;. Huh? Doesn&#8217;t that destroy the definition of singularity itself?</p>
<p>Then the other day I watched Nova. I went into a dreamy state like when I was in fifth grade and the hot teacher read to us from a good book. A feeling I have not felt in a long time. The Nova episode was about Fractal Geometry.</p>
<p>It would seem that fractals explain a great deal about the structure of nature. Life and non-life. Nature is the universe. The universe is nature. Why then would it not explain the structure of the universe? What if one were to apply fractals to our universe? Then one would probably have to come up with at least one &#8220;point of self similarity&#8221;. The reproduction, the branching, the duplication. If one would apply fractals to the structure of the entire universe it would have to be a point of self similarity on a grand scale. But what if we went to the biggest production we know, the Big Bang?</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s where it seems to all come together for me. What if, just what if, singularities are the points of self similarity in our MULTIVERSE? What if the &#8220;trunk singularity&#8221; is what our conceptualized universe comes from? The &#8220;branch singularities&#8221; are the ones we see in back holes now. The black hole eventually creates a new universe and sort of &#8220;disappears&#8221; in the process. Seem impossible? Allow me to quote again, &#8220;Most irregular galaxies were once spiral or elliptical galaxies but were deformed by gravitational action&#8230;..with neither a nuclear bulge nor any trace of spiral arm structure&#8221;. A spiral galaxy is at the end of the guessed &#8220;galactic evolution&#8221;. What happened to its nucleus? What happened to that black hole? Is there any evidence that a black hole has never &#8220;gone away&#8221;? What is the evidence of a &#8220;disappearing&#8221; black hole?</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s &#8220;Exact Self-Similarity&#8221; these would be smaller replica universes or &#8220;mini universes&#8221; (I type as I point my pinky to the corner of my mouth). If it&#8217;s &#8220;Quasi-Self-Similarity&#8221; it would be smaller copies in distorted and degenerate forms. Or it could be a combination of both.</p>
<p>So if we were made from a big ole black hole that&#8217;s where all the wonderful energy and matter came from. Maybe the singularities are very much alike and perhaps only differ in &#8220;scale&#8221;. Like branches on a tree. The answer to &#8220;Why don&#8217;t the singularities we see around us blow up into new universes themselves&#8221; perhaps can be answered by the simplest yet hardest to accept answer of, &#8220;well, they do&#8221;. Perhaps we don&#8217;t see that &#8220;explosion&#8221; (or &#8220;implosion&#8221;) from our position. Maybe we just see a little part of it and then the black hole fades away. The &#8220;explosion (implosion)&#8221; forms into &#8220;another branch universe&#8221; that we just can&#8217;t see yet (or maybe ever). Let us remember that when one looks at a fractal like: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mandel_zoom_00_mandelbrot_set.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mandel_zoom_00_mandelbrot_set.jpg</a><br />
One sees that in this model the reproduction could sort of happen &#8220;outside of us&#8221;. Singularities would represent sort of the &#8220;points connecting&#8221; the replications. Like the points connecting the smaller black circles to the bigger black circles seen in the drawing.</p>
<p>Perhaps this can help with the concept of parallel universes. Can it help us understand the dark stuff?</p>
<p>If I were to tell you that a universe was created from a singularity then pointed to another singularity and asked you, &#8220;What do you think that singularity is going to do?&#8221;, what is your natural response? What is your inclination? How about the only thing we know for sure&#8230;that there would seem to be the distinct possibility that it creates another universe! If I told you an x created a y, and there&#8217;s another x, what do you think is going to happen?</p>
<p>Universe makes Stars<br />
Stars make Galaxy<br />
Galaxy makes Black Hole<br />
Black Hole makes Universe<br />
(REPEAT)<br />
Universe makes Stars<br />
Stars make Galaxy<br />
Galaxy makes Black Hole<br />
Black Hole makes Universe<br />
(REPEAT)<br />
Universe makes Stars<br />
Stars make Galaxy<br />
Galaxy makes Black Hole<br />
Black Hole makes Universe<br />
(REPEAT)</p>
<p>The thing that scares me about this argument is it is so incredibly simple but tackles a great deal. Things like:</p>
<p>Why is our universe a multi-singularity universe? (Instead of just a one singularity universe &#8211; the singularity our universe itself was made from).</p>
<p>What is the function of black holes? WHY do they exist?</p>
<p>Why do black holes &#8220;eat&#8221;? Could it be they eat for the same reason everything else in the universe eats? To grow and reproduce?</p>
<p>Why do we see galaxies that have appeared to have lost their nucleus? (Is there something else going on other than galaxies smashing into each other).</p>
<p>Is everything cyclical? People make people. Branches make branches. Clouds make clouds. Stars make stars. Universes make universes. No matter where you are everthing goes to the virtually infinitely small and the infinitely large.</p>
<p>What we must remember is the proof of the multiverse being a fractal (or fractals) is that the proof does not appear a million light years away inside a black hole but instead all around us. The reflections we see in all things make it extremely hard to toss this theory out the window. These reflections are the agents of self similarity. The way a galaxy looks like a hurricane that looks like sudsy water circling a drain. The way blood vessels look like the outline of a tree which looks like the outline of a mouth of a river. The way the corona of a star looks like iris of your eye. All the circular shapes that dominate our existence.</p>
<p>Scientists will gnash their teeth when they find out the stuff that makes particles is made from other stuff that is made from other stuff that is made from other stuff and so on and worse yet going both ways. What&#8217;s that, the atom isn&#8217;t the smallest? Now you&#8217;re talking about strings and other stuff? LMAO! Aint it great?</p>
<p>Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: The Lopsided Universe &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28017</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lopsided Universe &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28017</guid>
		<description>[...] ideas about inflation did not provide straightforward answers to the problem, and that the Big Bang may not have been the beginning of the universe. I was more interested in stressing that this was a problem we should all be thinking about than [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ideas about inflation did not provide straightforward answers to the problem, and that the Big Bang may not have been the beginning of the universe. I was more interested in stressing that this was a problem we should all be thinking about than [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Gangstad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28016</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Gangstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28016</guid>
		<description>check it out- you tube or google &#039;cosmic bubbles/mother rock&#039; and see the start of the only true GUT. Fictional story set in real universe at
   www.angelfire.com/planet/cosmicbubbles         Fred Gangstad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>check it out- you tube or google &#8216;cosmic bubbles/mother rock&#8217; and see the start of the only true GUT. Fictional story set in real universe at<br />
   <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/planet/cosmicbubbles" rel="nofollow">http://www.angelfire.com/planet/cosmicbubbles</a>         Fred Gangstad</p>
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		<title>By: collin237</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28014</link>
		<dc:creator>collin237</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28014</guid>
		<description>Infinite since the beginning???

I thought the universe began with a point. Isn&#039;t that what &quot;past singularity&quot; means?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Infinite since the beginning???</p>
<p>I thought the universe began with a point. Isn&#8217;t that what &#8220;past singularity&#8221; means?</p>
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		<title>By: Chatting Theology with Robert Novak &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28015</link>
		<dc:creator>Chatting Theology with Robert Novak &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28015</guid>
		<description>[...] in its full glory, obviously, but we see no obstacles and are making interesting progress. See here and here for more physics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in its full glory, obviously, but we see no obstacles and are making interesting progress. See here and here for more physics [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reading between Woit&#8217;s lines; risking one&#8217;s credibility by challenging the establishment line, even in a small way &#171; Bob Dudesky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28013</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading between Woit&#8217;s lines; risking one&#8217;s credibility by challenging the establishment line, even in a small way &#171; Bob Dudesky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28013</guid>
		<description>[...] and Quarks: Before the Big Bang, the post linked to Woit. Listen here. As we’ve talked about on this very blog, the time is right to push our understanding of the universe back before the Big Bang and ask what [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and Quarks: Before the Big Bang, the post linked to Woit. Listen here. As we’ve talked about on this very blog, the time is right to push our understanding of the universe back before the Big Bang and ask what [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quirks and Quarks: Before the Big Bang &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/comment-page-1/#comment-28012</link>
		<dc:creator>Quirks and Quarks: Before the Big Bang &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/#comment-28012</guid>
		<description>[...] here. As we&#8217;ve talked about on this very blog, the time is right to push our understanding of the universe back before the Big Bang and ask what [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] here. As we&#8217;ve talked about on this very blog, the time is right to push our understanding of the universe back before the Big Bang and ask what [...]</p>
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