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	<title>Comments on: Pullman Wins the Carnegie of Carnegies</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Nomad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29737</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29737</guid>
		<description>The first book (The &lt;i&gt;Golden Compass&lt;/i&gt; in the USA) was very good, although I wouldn&#039;t gift it with the title &#039;Best Children&#039;s Book in the last 70 years&#039;. Pullman has some interesting ideas (in the fantastical realm), but I would strongly argue with Mark&#039;s post that his cosmology and particle physics is &quot;seriously educated&quot;. The books decrease in quality with &lt;i&gt;The Amber Spyglass&lt;/i&gt; (3rd and final book of the trilogy) more a soapbox for Pullman&#039;s various anti-religious opinions than a challenging and thought-provoking read. From &lt;i&gt;The Amber Spyglass&lt;/i&gt;: &quot;The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that&#039;s all&quot; and &quot;... the rebel angels, the followers of wisdom, have always tried to open minds; the Authority and his churches have always tried to keep them closed.&quot; Whether you agree with his assessment of religion, or not, his atheistic screeds become annoying and detract from what could have been a memorable trilogy. Is it a series for children? Not really. Although literate youth (13+ years old) would enjoy &lt;i&gt;The Golden Compass&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first book (The <i>Golden Compass</i> in the USA) was very good, although I wouldn&#8217;t gift it with the title &#8216;Best Children&#8217;s Book in the last 70 years&#8217;. Pullman has some interesting ideas (in the fantastical realm), but I would strongly argue with Mark&#8217;s post that his cosmology and particle physics is &#8220;seriously educated&#8221;. The books decrease in quality with <i>The Amber Spyglass</i> (3rd and final book of the trilogy) more a soapbox for Pullman&#8217;s various anti-religious opinions than a challenging and thought-provoking read. From <i>The Amber Spyglass</i>: &#8220;The Christian religion is a very powerful and convincing mistake, that&#8217;s all&#8221; and &#8220;&#8230; the rebel angels, the followers of wisdom, have always tried to open minds; the Authority and his churches have always tried to keep them closed.&#8221; Whether you agree with his assessment of religion, or not, his atheistic screeds become annoying and detract from what could have been a memorable trilogy. Is it a series for children? Not really. Although literate youth (13+ years old) would enjoy <i>The Golden Compass</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29736</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29736</guid>
		<description>Philip Pullman is a magician. Normally, fantasy makes my toes curl up with embarrassment - Tolkien, Moorcock, C.S.Lewis - all rather dire if you are over fifteen - but somehow Pullman makes it all so real. Armoured bears, personal daemons, a knife that cuts between dimensions. Wow. And it works for kids, teenagers and adults alike.

For those with kids, Pullman writes plenty of real childrens books too, and they are all gems. My favourite is &quot;I was a rat&quot;. Try it. If you don&#039;t have children, borrow a niece or nephew and read it to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip Pullman is a magician. Normally, fantasy makes my toes curl up with embarrassment &#8211; Tolkien, Moorcock, C.S.Lewis &#8211; all rather dire if you are over fifteen &#8211; but somehow Pullman makes it all so real. Armoured bears, personal daemons, a knife that cuts between dimensions. Wow. And it works for kids, teenagers and adults alike.</p>
<p>For those with kids, Pullman writes plenty of real childrens books too, and they are all gems. My favourite is &#8220;I was a rat&#8221;. Try it. If you don&#8217;t have children, borrow a niece or nephew and read it to them.</p>
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		<title>By: CJR</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29735</link>
		<dc:creator>CJR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29735</guid>
		<description>People who didn&#039;t like the third book so much - try re-reading it. I appreciated it much more on my second reading than the first (probably because, unlike Harry Potter, it&#039;s not a book you can skim read).

In later life I&#039;ve come to the conclusion that all of the best children&#039;s books (and the ones I liked most when I was a child) are the most &#039;adult&#039; ones. Children love dark and complicated and ambiguous - it&#039;s us adults who foolishly imagine that they will be upset or overwhelmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who didn&#8217;t like the third book so much &#8211; try re-reading it. I appreciated it much more on my second reading than the first (probably because, unlike Harry Potter, it&#8217;s not a book you can skim read).</p>
<p>In later life I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that all of the best children&#8217;s books (and the ones I liked most when I was a child) are the most &#8216;adult&#8217; ones. Children love dark and complicated and ambiguous &#8211; it&#8217;s us adults who foolishly imagine that they will be upset or overwhelmed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29734</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29734</guid>
		<description>CIP said &quot;... Overall, a good start with a contrived and boring ending ... The third [book]: Probably only amusing to devout members of the church militant of atheism ...&quot;.

I am not sure that the book is atheistic (in the sense of against all religion) rather than just pointing out severe flaws in many religious organizations. Consider two quotes [with my comments following each in brackets]:

&quot;... The Authority, god, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father the Almighty - those were all names he gave himself. He was never the creator. ... He told those who came after him that he had created them, but it was a lie. ...&quot;.
[ In my opinion, this can be read as the bad guy &quot;The Authority&quot; being just that, merely an authoritative ruler of a religious organization, such as the presider over an Inquistion, and NOT really G-d.]

&quot;... the Authority considers that conscious beings of every kind have become dangerously independent ... the followers of wisdom ... have always tried to open minds ... the Authority and his churches have always tried to keep them closed ...&quot;
[In my opinion, this describes the attitude of any bureaucratic totalitarian dictator with respect to &quot;emperor-has-no-clothes&quot; independent thought, a couple of examples being: arXiv&#039;s blacklisting; and the conflict throughout the history of China between Confucian rigid bureaucracy and Taoist creativity. (Note that recently the current Chinese government has endorsed Confucianism, but continues to repress such Taoist-related entitities as Falun Dafa.)]

In short, I don&#039;t see Lyra&#039;s killing The Authority as a death-of-G-d scene, but as a triumph of open-ended Taoist creativity over rigid Confucian authority, which is consistent with my religious views (Einstein-Spinoza-Taoist Pantheism),
so
I don&#039;t think that you have to be in the &quot;church militant of atheism&quot; to be OK with the way the book(s) turn out.

Tony Smith

PS - The Golden Compass reminds me of the Chinese LoPan,
and
the three instruments: Golden Compass; Subtle Knife; and Amber Spyglass
remind me of
the Shinto Triad: Mirror; Sword; and Jewel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CIP said &#8220;&#8230; Overall, a good start with a contrived and boring ending &#8230; The third [book]: Probably only amusing to devout members of the church militant of atheism &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>I am not sure that the book is atheistic (in the sense of against all religion) rather than just pointing out severe flaws in many religious organizations. Consider two quotes [with my comments following each in brackets]:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; The Authority, god, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father the Almighty &#8211; those were all names he gave himself. He was never the creator. &#8230; He told those who came after him that he had created them, but it was a lie. &#8230;&#8221;.<br />
[ In my opinion, this can be read as the bad guy "The Authority" being just that, merely an authoritative ruler of a religious organization, such as the presider over an Inquistion, and NOT really G-d.]</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; the Authority considers that conscious beings of every kind have become dangerously independent &#8230; the followers of wisdom &#8230; have always tried to open minds &#8230; the Authority and his churches have always tried to keep them closed &#8230;&#8221;<br />
[In my opinion, this describes the attitude of any bureaucratic totalitarian dictator with respect to "emperor-has-no-clothes" independent thought, a couple of examples being: arXiv's blacklisting; and the conflict throughout the history of China between Confucian rigid bureaucracy and Taoist creativity. (Note that recently the current Chinese government has endorsed Confucianism, but continues to repress such Taoist-related entitities as Falun Dafa.)]</p>
<p>In short, I don&#8217;t see Lyra&#8217;s killing The Authority as a death-of-G-d scene, but as a triumph of open-ended Taoist creativity over rigid Confucian authority, which is consistent with my religious views (Einstein-Spinoza-Taoist Pantheism),<br />
so<br />
I don&#8217;t think that you have to be in the &#8220;church militant of atheism&#8221; to be OK with the way the book(s) turn out.</p>
<p>Tony Smith</p>
<p>PS &#8211; The Golden Compass reminds me of the Chinese LoPan,<br />
and<br />
the three instruments: Golden Compass; Subtle Knife; and Amber Spyglass<br />
remind me of<br />
the Shinto Triad: Mirror; Sword; and Jewel</p>
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		<title>By: mollishka</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29733</link>
		<dc:creator>mollishka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29733</guid>
		<description>The third book left some questions unanswered, but on the other hand, it is a much heavier book theme-wise than the earlier ones, tackling a lot of issues (death and love being the most obvious ones) that most children&#039;s books wouldn&#039;t dare touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The third book left some questions unanswered, but on the other hand, it is a much heavier book theme-wise than the earlier ones, tackling a lot of issues (death and love being the most obvious ones) that most children&#8217;s books wouldn&#8217;t dare touch.</p>
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		<title>By: CapitalistImperialistPig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29732</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalistImperialistPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 01:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29732</guid>
		<description>But I wouldn&#039;t want to miss Nicole Kidman as the sinister Mrs. Coulter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I wouldn&#8217;t want to miss Nicole Kidman as the sinister Mrs. Coulter.</p>
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		<title>By: CapitalistImperialistPig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29731</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalistImperialistPig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 01:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29731</guid>
		<description>The first book: - Highly original and fascinating.

The second: An occasionally interesting sequel.

The third:  Probably only amusing to devout members of the church militant of atheism - and only for political reasons rather than literary.

Overall, a good start with a contrived and boring ending.  The sinister characters at the center of the plot become unconvincing and ultimately ridiculous.

The judgement of the prize committee is bizarre - only the first half of the first book is truly of the highest caliber.

I found the author&#039;s attempt to wrap his mystical story in particle physics terminology merely annoying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first book: &#8211; Highly original and fascinating.</p>
<p>The second: An occasionally interesting sequel.</p>
<p>The third:  Probably only amusing to devout members of the church militant of atheism &#8211; and only for political reasons rather than literary.</p>
<p>Overall, a good start with a contrived and boring ending.  The sinister characters at the center of the plot become unconvincing and ultimately ridiculous.</p>
<p>The judgement of the prize committee is bizarre &#8211; only the first half of the first book is truly of the highest caliber.</p>
<p>I found the author&#8217;s attempt to wrap his mystical story in particle physics terminology merely annoying.</p>
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		<title>By: Maynard Handley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29730</link>
		<dc:creator>Maynard Handley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29730</guid>
		<description>&quot;And as much as I agree with the values, I think they came on too thick for a children&#039;s book&quot;

But, of course, that&#039;s part of what makes them such a joy. They don&#039;t treat the reader like an idiot. The world is presented as it is, and the assumption is that you, the reader, are smart enough to fit all the pieces together --- to be aware enough of particle physics to pick up those allusions, likewise with Victorian England, likewise to just get what is going on with matched demons without a didactic explanation. The values business --- think for yourself about what religion means, and has meant through history --- is just one more part of this.

I expect it is true that the set of kids who can cope with this is smaller than the set that can cope with Harry Potter, but I also suspect it is larger than many supposed educators suspect. (cf Stephen Johnson&#039;s _Everything Bad is Good for You_)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And as much as I agree with the values, I think they came on too thick for a children&#8217;s book&#8221;</p>
<p>But, of course, that&#8217;s part of what makes them such a joy. They don&#8217;t treat the reader like an idiot. The world is presented as it is, and the assumption is that you, the reader, are smart enough to fit all the pieces together &#8212; to be aware enough of particle physics to pick up those allusions, likewise with Victorian England, likewise to just get what is going on with matched demons without a didactic explanation. The values business &#8212; think for yourself about what religion means, and has meant through history &#8212; is just one more part of this.</p>
<p>I expect it is true that the set of kids who can cope with this is smaller than the set that can cope with Harry Potter, but I also suspect it is larger than many supposed educators suspect. (cf Stephen Johnson&#8217;s _Everything Bad is Good for You_)</p>
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		<title>By: miller</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29729</link>
		<dc:creator>miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/#comment-29729</guid>
		<description>I read these relatively recently upon hearing that they were a &quot;rebuttal&quot; to Narnia (really? a fictional rebuttal?).  The first book was by far the best.  The other two books were completely different in pacing and setting.  I liked them, but the last book felt over the top.  And as much as I agree with the values, I think they came on too thick for a children&#039;s book.  I think I prefer Harry Potter, where the only themes are ones that no one in their right mind would disagree with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read these relatively recently upon hearing that they were a &#8220;rebuttal&#8221; to Narnia (really? a fictional rebuttal?).  The first book was by far the best.  The other two books were completely different in pacing and setting.  I liked them, but the last book felt over the top.  And as much as I agree with the values, I think they came on too thick for a children&#8217;s book.  I think I prefer Harry Potter, where the only themes are ones that no one in their right mind would disagree with.</p>
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		<title>By: susannah</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/21/pullman-wins-the-carnegie-of-carnegies-70th-anniversary-medal/comment-page-1/#comment-29728</link>
		<dc:creator>susannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>These books had a tremendous impact on me as a child.  I grew up in a very religious household and wasn&#039;t allowed to read many of the books my peers enjoyed, but a wonderful librarian helped me sneak books I wanted to read home, this series included.  They made me feel ok about wondering if god was there and asking questions and the smart and brave little girl in the stories was someone I could admire and try to emulate.

Now, while my parents still believe the earth is 6000 years old and more hurricanes are signs of the endtimes, I&#039;m studying biology and the evolution of drought resistance.  There were certainly other influences that helped me, but these books gave me the courage to start asking questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These books had a tremendous impact on me as a child.  I grew up in a very religious household and wasn&#8217;t allowed to read many of the books my peers enjoyed, but a wonderful librarian helped me sneak books I wanted to read home, this series included.  They made me feel ok about wondering if god was there and asking questions and the smart and brave little girl in the stories was someone I could admire and try to emulate.</p>
<p>Now, while my parents still believe the earth is 6000 years old and more hurricanes are signs of the endtimes, I&#8217;m studying biology and the evolution of drought resistance.  There were certainly other influences that helped me, but these books gave me the courage to start asking questions.</p>
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