Comments on: An Abelian Perjurer http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:09:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: David Schneider http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29246 David Schneider Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:58:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29246 Hello! I'm the founder/editor of a new online magazine of arts and ideas for the 21st century called The Boy Bedlam Review -- found at http://www.boybedlamreview.com . This is an excellent piece -- gathering together all the hypocrisies in hyperlinks -- and I would very much like to feature it in our Politics/World section. Our (absurdly miniscule) budget can't, as yet, support us throwing money your way, but I'm hoping that you might be inspired by our approach to contribute this piece to our widening Poetics of Information. Sincerely, David Schneider Editor Hello! I’m the founder/editor of a new online magazine of arts and ideas for the 21st century called The Boy Bedlam Review — found at http://www.boybedlamreview.com .

This is an excellent piece — gathering together all the hypocrisies in hyperlinks — and I would very much like to feature it in our Politics/World section. Our (absurdly miniscule) budget can’t, as yet, support us throwing money your way, but I’m hoping that you might be inspired by our approach to contribute this piece to our widening Poetics of Information.

Sincerely,
David Schneider
Editor

]]> By: wag http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29247 wag Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:46:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29247 Dave said he had some sympathy for Scooter. Me to. I have enormous sympathy for Scooter. I have the kind of sympathy for him that can be found in the dictionary -- somewhere between shit and syphilis. Dave said he had some sympathy for Scooter. Me to. I have enormous sympathy for Scooter.

I have the kind of sympathy for him that can be found in the dictionary — somewhere between shit and syphilis.

]]> By: DaveW http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29245 DaveW Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:21:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29245 Re: #34 -- It might also be pointed out that Martha Stewart went to the slammer for lying to the FBI, just like Libby lied. Except she lied about some exotic twist in securities law and Libby lied about the national security of the United States. I thought Stewart got screwed by a bad law, but the only thing worst than a bad law is a bad law that gets ignored if the criminal lied to cover up for his boss. I guess Equal Justice Under Law has never made it into "conservative morality". Re: #34 — It might also be pointed out that Martha Stewart went to the slammer for lying to the FBI, just like Libby lied. Except she lied about some exotic twist in securities law and Libby lied about the national security of the United States. I thought Stewart got screwed by a bad law, but the only thing worst than a bad law is a bad law that gets ignored if the criminal lied to cover up for his boss. I guess Equal Justice Under Law has never made it into “conservative morality”.

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29244 Arun Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:30:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29244 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/26/175420/448 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/26/175420/448

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29243 Arun Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:27:19 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29243 It is also worth pointing out that Libby lied to the FBI long before Fitzgerald even entered the scene. For whatever reason, lying to the FBI is a crime in our law; one cannot make special pleading for Libby. --- This may amuse you: http://miaculpa.blogspot.com/2007/07/hardball-david-schuster-pounds-fouad.html It is also worth pointing out that Libby lied to the FBI long before Fitzgerald even entered the scene. For whatever reason, lying to the FBI is a crime in our law; one cannot make special pleading for Libby.

—

This may amuse you:

http://miaculpa.blogspot.com/2007/07/hardball-david-schuster-pounds-fouad.html

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29242 Arun Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:08:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29242 <I>. But, had any crime been committed when Fitzgerald began his investigation? No, at least in the judgement of Fitzgerald.</I> ????? - He couldn't have begun his investigation without there being prima facie, a crime. The determination of whether an actual crime was committed and who committed it, because of the wording of the law allegedly broken, (see <a HREF="http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00000421----000-.html" rel="nofollow">here</A> requires determination of intent. <blockquote>Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.</blockquote> Scooter Libby impeded that investigation by his perjury and was convicted for it no different from any number of other perjurers. . But, had any crime been committed when Fitzgerald began his investigation? No, at least in the judgement of Fitzgerald.

????? - He couldn’t have begun his investigation without there being prima facie, a crime. The determination of whether an actual crime was committed and who committed it, because of the wording of the law allegedly broken, (see here
requires determination of intent.

Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Scooter Libby impeded that investigation by his perjury and was convicted for it no different from any number of other perjurers.

]]> By: Count Iblis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29241 Count Iblis Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:23:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29241 #21 Reginald Selkirk <blockquote> <a href="http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/07/03/paul_davies/?source=whitelist" rel="nofollow">Salon interview with Paul Davies</a> Yawn. </blockquote> From the link: <blockquote>People are not the result of a cosmic accident, but of laws of the universe that grant our lives meaning and purpose, says physicist Paul Davies.</blockquote> Are you saying that Libby telling lies was not a cosmic accident? :) #21 Reginald Selkirk

Salon interview with Paul Davies
Yawn.

From the link:

People are not the result of a cosmic accident, but of laws of the universe that grant our lives meaning and purpose, says physicist Paul Davies.

Are you saying that Libby telling lies was not a cosmic accident? :)

]]> By: John http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29240 John Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:26:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29240 tyler, Sure, Fitzgerald didn't force anyone to lie. I agree with you that "turned into" is not a good choice of words. But, had any crime been committed when Fitzgerald began his investigation? No, at least in the judgement of Fitzgerald. Mr. F did manage to discover that Libby lied during the course of the investigation, and I agree L ought to be punished for that serious crime. F also imprisoned reporters, which I find to be outrageous considering that F had already found the leaker. I am concerned that L isn't doing some time in jail (although the Dark Lord Rove requires that I point out at least one other member of the Executive lied to a SP/Grand Jury and avoided jail time). On the other hand, L wasn't covering up the outing of Ms. Plame. F knew who revealed her identity -- Armitage -- yet he continued to question witnesses and place reporters in jail for protecting sources. And for what? We now know F had already found the leaker, and he wasn't in the White House. I find all that just as troubling as the expanded inquisition against Clinton a few years earlier. As far as Ms. Plame's covert status, it seems that there is a serious question if she was covert according to the IIPA. In any case, F decided that no crime had been committed by Armitage revealing her identity, IIPA or not. Novak was unaware of her covert status and the CIA didn't intervene when he checked it out, or I would agree that he would be at least morally culpable of treason. So it seems the overheated rhetoric is from the side claiming treason! treason! tyler,

Sure, Fitzgerald didn’t force anyone to lie. I agree with you that “turned into” is not a good choice of words. But, had any crime been committed when Fitzgerald began his investigation? No, at least in the judgement of Fitzgerald. Mr. F did manage to discover that Libby lied during the course of the investigation, and I agree L ought to be punished for that serious crime. F also imprisoned reporters, which I find to be outrageous considering that F had already found the leaker.

I am concerned that L isn’t doing some time in jail (although the Dark Lord Rove requires that I point out at least one other member of the Executive lied to a SP/Grand Jury and avoided jail time). On the other hand, L wasn’t covering up the outing of Ms. Plame. F knew who revealed her identity — Armitage — yet he continued to question witnesses and place reporters in jail for protecting sources. And for what? We now know F had already found the leaker, and he wasn’t in the White House. I find all that just as troubling as the expanded inquisition against Clinton a few years earlier.

As far as Ms. Plame’s covert status, it seems that there is a serious question if she was covert according to the IIPA. In any case, F decided that no crime had been committed by Armitage revealing her identity, IIPA or not. Novak was unaware of her covert status and the CIA didn’t intervene when he checked it out, or I would agree that he would be at least morally culpable of treason. So it seems the overheated rhetoric is from the side claiming treason! treason!

]]> By: cynic http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29239 cynic Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:11:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29239 Your are indeed right, Sean, two wrongs don't make a right. Then neither does one. It's just that it's hard to take one side, when both are fairly dreadful. Here in the UK we have just seen Mr Blair, who was just about as soggy-left, soi-dissant all knowing, pro-self-improvement, feminised and lawyer-fluent as it is possible to be, escorted from the building. And why? Iraq? As he cuddled up to W, he was only doing what he was told to by slick Willy. Then he lied, like Bill caught with a ceegar up an intern's ass, and lied and lied. I tend to loathe HMG, whichever of the 2 parties is in power, as a matter of principle and pratice; sadly it is becoming ever more personal these days. Your are indeed right, Sean, two wrongs don’t make a right. Then neither does one.
It’s just that it’s hard to take one side, when both are fairly dreadful. Here in the UK we have just seen Mr Blair, who was just about as soggy-left, soi-dissant all knowing, pro-self-improvement, feminised and lawyer-fluent as it is possible to be, escorted from the building. And why? Iraq? As he cuddled up to W, he was only doing what he was told to by slick Willy. Then he lied, like Bill caught with a ceegar up an intern’s ass, and lied and lied. I tend to loathe HMG, whichever of the 2 parties is in power, as a matter of principle and pratice; sadly it is becoming ever more personal these days.

]]> By: UniversalVM http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29238 UniversalVM Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:25:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/07/03/an-abelian-perjurer/#comment-29238 #20 J I can echo this sentiment pretty much EXACTLY! Every single time I see GWB on TV I get some sort of an allergic reaction...I have to change the channel or switch the whole thing off. [RantON] I keep asking myself the same question over and over again ...Is this half-wit really the President? Really? really really? This is the commander-in-chief with the finger on the nuclear button? (He pronounces it "nu-cular" BTW.) Anytime I have to listen to even a few seconds of GWB, I feel my IQ dropping a couple of points. [RantOFF] #25 C I have to believe that the "loyal Bushie" damage can be repaired. This country has too many good people to believe that stinking mess cannot be eventually cleaned up by intelligent, deliberative action. If the damage is irreparable, we are all well and truly boned. #20 J

I can echo this sentiment pretty much EXACTLY!
Every single time I see GWB on TV I get some sort of an allergic reaction…I have to change the channel or switch the whole thing off.
[RantON]
I keep asking myself the same question over and over again …Is this half-wit really the President? Really? really really? This is the commander-in-chief with the finger on the nuclear button? (He pronounces it “nu-cular” BTW.) Anytime I have to listen to even a few seconds of GWB, I feel my IQ dropping a couple of points.
[RantOFF]

#25 C

I have to believe that the “loyal Bushie” damage can be repaired. This country has too many good people to believe that stinking mess cannot be eventually cleaned up by intelligent, deliberative action. If the damage is irreparable, we are all well and truly boned.

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