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	<title>Comments on: Dude!  Where&#8217;s my baryons?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30722</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30722</guid>
		<description>How much of the baryonic matter in galaxies is in burned-out stars that are hard to see?  e.g. neutron stars, black holes, etc.  For that matter, where are all the neutron stars?  given the short lifespans of large stars and the age of the galaxy, shouldn&#039;t there be lots of burned out stars floating around our neighbourhood?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of the baryonic matter in galaxies is in burned-out stars that are hard to see?  e.g. neutron stars, black holes, etc.  For that matter, where are all the neutron stars?  given the short lifespans of large stars and the age of the galaxy, shouldn&#8217;t there be lots of burned out stars floating around our neighbourhood?</p>
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		<title>By: sol aisenberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30707</link>
		<dc:creator>sol aisenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30707</guid>
		<description>Actually there is no need for dark matter to explain the observations of Fritz Zwicky (motion of groups of galaxies) or of Vera Rubin (flat velocity rottation curves of spiral galaxies).

The supposed need for dark matter is due to the ASSUMPTION/SPECULATION (without observational proof) that Newton&#039;s law of gravity and gravitational constant are also valid outside our solar system. My theory of extended gravity, XTG, is based upon the fact that the equation v*v/r = M*G/(r*r) reduces to M*G=v*v*r and - in the region where the rotation velocities are constant - M*G is a linear function of distance. This led to the false ASSUMPTION/SPECULATION that the linear mass distribution - although not visible - exists as a halo around the visible matter and is dark mattter.

When we take the alternate assution that G has the linear dependence on distance, r, the need for dark matter is removed - and researchers can spend their time and funding on more productive matters.

Details will be on my web site (undergoing major updates). Included will be interesting clarification of dark energy, expanding universe, inflation, CMB, information in black holes, and more. Do a Google search on my name.

Comments will be appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually there is no need for dark matter to explain the observations of Fritz Zwicky (motion of groups of galaxies) or of Vera Rubin (flat velocity rottation curves of spiral galaxies).</p>
<p>The supposed need for dark matter is due to the ASSUMPTION/SPECULATION (without observational proof) that Newton&#8217;s law of gravity and gravitational constant are also valid outside our solar system. My theory of extended gravity, XTG, is based upon the fact that the equation v*v/r = M*G/(r*r) reduces to M*G=v*v*r and &#8211; in the region where the rotation velocities are constant &#8211; M*G is a linear function of distance. This led to the false ASSUMPTION/SPECULATION that the linear mass distribution &#8211; although not visible &#8211; exists as a halo around the visible matter and is dark mattter.</p>
<p>When we take the alternate assution that G has the linear dependence on distance, r, the need for dark matter is removed &#8211; and researchers can spend their time and funding on more productive matters.</p>
<p>Details will be on my web site (undergoing major updates). Included will be interesting clarification of dark energy, expanding universe, inflation, CMB, information in black holes, and more. Do a Google search on my name.</p>
<p>Comments will be appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: b l i s s &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Betcha didn&#8217;t know, Bo. But ya should, Hollywood.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30706</link>
		<dc:creator>b l i s s &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Betcha didn&#8217;t know, Bo. But ya should, Hollywood.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30706</guid>
		<description>[...] value, with the balance supplied by the dark energy. Only a fraction of the matter is composed of baryons. Although the nature of this unknown dark matter remains elusive, new experimental results have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] value, with the balance supplied by the dark energy. Only a fraction of the matter is composed of baryons. Although the nature of this unknown dark matter remains elusive, new experimental results have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bjkeefe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30708</link>
		<dc:creator>bjkeefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 04:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30708</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Gastrophysics&lt;/em&gt;.  I like it!  (And so we now know, at last, whence came &lt;em&gt;gastronomy&lt;/em&gt;?)

Further on, Julianne, you invoke a clich&#233; for the distant past:  &quot;&#8230; back when I was a grad student (you know, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the iPhone did not yet exist)&#160;&#8230;&quot;

I don&#039;t know how any self-respecting person in your field neglects to add &quot;&#8230; and when Pluto was a planet.&quot;

Just sayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Gastrophysics</em>.  I like it!  (And so we now know, at last, whence came <em>gastronomy</em>?)</p>
<p>Further on, Julianne, you invoke a clich&eacute; for the distant past:  &#8220;&#8230; back when I was a grad student (you know, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the iPhone did not yet exist)&nbsp;&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how any self-respecting person in your field neglects to add &#8220;&#8230; and when Pluto was a planet.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30705</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30705</guid>
		<description>So, what aspect of AGN heating haven&#039;t you bought into, then? The evidence that they &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; put large amounts of energy into the hot phase of the IGM is pretty overwhelming; the evidence that by doing so they solve all known structure formation problems less so, so I guess it&#039;s the latter that you&#039;re expressing doubt about...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what aspect of AGN heating haven&#8217;t you bought into, then? The evidence that they <em>do</em> put large amounts of energy into the hot phase of the IGM is pretty overwhelming; the evidence that by doing so they solve all known structure formation problems less so, so I guess it&#8217;s the latter that you&#8217;re expressing doubt about&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Skeptical Cosmologist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30704</link>
		<dc:creator>The Skeptical Cosmologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30704</guid>
		<description>Nice post Julianne! It was very accessible and well-written. It is also on a topic close to my heart, which inspired me to write &lt;a href=&quot;http://skepticalcosmologist.blogspot.com/2007/08/missing-matter-or-power-of-cosmic_09.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my very first scientific post&lt;/a&gt; on my &lt;a href=&quot;http://skepticalcosmologist.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;brand new weblog&lt;/a&gt;.

There, I talk about the importance of bookkeeping in Science, which is also a response to Sean’s cheeky comment:
&quot;If you know that something exists, what’s the point in thinking about it?&quot;
As I mention there, and contrary to what you say, baryonic accounting doesn’t seem to exactly work out, even in galaxy clusters. The discrepancy is not quite as big as what you are working on, but it is (in my opinion) statistically significant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post Julianne! It was very accessible and well-written. It is also on a topic close to my heart, which inspired me to write <a href="http://skepticalcosmologist.blogspot.com/2007/08/missing-matter-or-power-of-cosmic_09.html" rel="nofollow">my very first scientific post</a> on my <a href="http://skepticalcosmologist.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">brand new weblog</a>.</p>
<p>There, I talk about the importance of bookkeeping in Science, which is also a response to Sean’s cheeky comment:<br />
&#8220;If you know that something exists, what’s the point in thinking about it?&#8221;<br />
As I mention there, and contrary to what you say, baryonic accounting doesn’t seem to exactly work out, even in galaxy clusters. The discrepancy is not quite as big as what you are working on, but it is (in my opinion) statistically significant.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Graber</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30721</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Graber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30721</guid>
		<description>The new &quot;very dry&quot; 4 galaxy merger:
http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0708/0708.0011v1.pdf
No gas , no star formation, but still enough radiation to be detected in X-rays.
So are the extra baryons here all hot, or have they been blown completely out of the cluster?
Or are they hiding somewhere else?
Do &quot;dry mergers&quot; only happen in small clusters?
Or can they happen in big ones, too?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Thanks.
Jim Graber</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new &#8220;very dry&#8221; 4 galaxy merger:<br />
<a href="http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0708/0708.0011v1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0708/0708.0011v1.pdf</a><br />
No gas , no star formation, but still enough radiation to be detected in X-rays.<br />
So are the extra baryons here all hot, or have they been blown completely out of the cluster?<br />
Or are they hiding somewhere else?<br />
Do &#8220;dry mergers&#8221; only happen in small clusters?<br />
Or can they happen in big ones, too?<br />
Inquiring minds want to know&#8230;<br />
Thanks.<br />
Jim Graber</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30720</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 14:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30720</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If it gets hot enough, like in clusters of galaxies, then you can detected it in the X-ray with current instruments. But, there’s a decade or so of astrophysically interesting temperatures where it doesn’t emit enough x-rays to be readily detected. You can get it in absorption, but that’s tougher to interpret except in a broad statistical sense.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thanks! Also, is the universe invisible below certain radio frequencies? I mean, the ionized gas must have some plasma frequency below which radio-waves do not propagate....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If it gets hot enough, like in clusters of galaxies, then you can detected it in the X-ray with current instruments. But, there’s a decade or so of astrophysically interesting temperatures where it doesn’t emit enough x-rays to be readily detected. You can get it in absorption, but that’s tougher to interpret except in a broad statistical sense.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanks! Also, is the universe invisible below certain radio frequencies? I mean, the ionized gas must have some plasma frequency below which radio-waves do not propagate&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Harwood</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30719</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Harwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 06:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30719</guid>
		<description>Julianne, thanks for the Frank van den Bosch and Guinevere Kauffmann link. It was very helpful.  I really had been thrown off by the halo terminology --a la angelic ring above the head...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julianne, thanks for the Frank van den Bosch and Guinevere Kauffmann link. It was very helpful.  I really had been thrown off by the halo terminology &#8211;a la angelic ring above the head&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Stankus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/comment-page-1/#comment-30703</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Stankus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/06/dude-wheres-my-baryons/#comment-30703</guid>
		<description>Hi Julianne --

On a related topic, I was wondering(/hoping) if you could take a few minutes to talk about the (possible) connections between galaxy formation and super-massive black holes.

It&#039;s been a while since I knew anything about the subject, but I recall a time when people were surprised and annoyed to learn that, in simulations, relaxing dark matter clouds tended to develop singularities of infinite density at their cores.  One can try to constrain halo models to be non-singluar (&quot;softened isothermal sphere&quot;); but is it entirely a coincidence that when you look into the cores of real galaxies you find ... singularities of infinite density?  ie super-massive black holes (SMBH).

In your understanding -- orders of magnitude better than mine, I trust -- what are the best ideas for how SMBH&#039;s form in galaxies?  Can they grow by accreting appreciable amounts of dark matter?  Should we expect SMBH&#039;s to exist in the cores of galactic cluster halos?  or just in galaxies?  (this may be strongly connected to the baryon question.)

Also, here&#039;s my favorite question, if you&#039;re up for it: within whatever mechanism you might favor, why would we expect a given galaxy to have just _one_ SMBH and not several?

Thanks for whatever wisdom you can share, plus references.

Regards,

Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julianne &#8211;</p>
<p>On a related topic, I was wondering(/hoping) if you could take a few minutes to talk about the (possible) connections between galaxy formation and super-massive black holes.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been a while since I knew anything about the subject, but I recall a time when people were surprised and annoyed to learn that, in simulations, relaxing dark matter clouds tended to develop singularities of infinite density at their cores.  One can try to constrain halo models to be non-singluar (&#8221;softened isothermal sphere&#8221;); but is it entirely a coincidence that when you look into the cores of real galaxies you find &#8230; singularities of infinite density?  ie super-massive black holes (SMBH).</p>
<p>In your understanding &#8212; orders of magnitude better than mine, I trust &#8212; what are the best ideas for how SMBH&#8217;s form in galaxies?  Can they grow by accreting appreciable amounts of dark matter?  Should we expect SMBH&#8217;s to exist in the cores of galactic cluster halos?  or just in galaxies?  (this may be strongly connected to the baryon question.)</p>
<p>Also, here&#8217;s my favorite question, if you&#8217;re up for it: within whatever mechanism you might favor, why would we expect a given galaxy to have just _one_ SMBH and not several?</p>
<p>Thanks for whatever wisdom you can share, plus references.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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