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	<title>Comments on: Charity Without Religious Belief:  Mother Teresa</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: claude mcculloch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31347</link>
		<dc:creator>claude mcculloch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31347</guid>
		<description>I just want to say WOW!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to say WOW!</p>
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		<title>By: melisa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31346</link>
		<dc:creator>melisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31346</guid>
		<description>Afterall, man created the study of science as man did the study of religion. Period.

With science it would be correct to use the words correct or incorrect. With religion it would be correct to use the terms good or bad-noting that good and bad are both the light and the dark. The things that make me feel good are usually good-maybe not charitable but certainly not agaisnt the law [of man][(most things :)]). When I tend to do things bad I either feel bad or have caused a negative result.

Duh. Doesn&#039;t everyone do this? If we don&#039;t understand consequences for our actions doesn&#039;t that make us psychopaths, a wrong number, if you will? We think more than an ant. A baboon will never be interested in the lenses supporting dark energy.

It is my belief that without the light you cannot have the dark, period. They coexist as one. If they didn&#039;t we would all be lost; we would all be a lost cause uncapable of love, life, and wrong or right choices.

I am not blue funked by religion or science because they are clearly studies of a different family both with stories to tell. I do not however, when you take a man majoring in minors out of the equation, disagree with such an idea as to say religion is the adherent, adviser, alter ego, amigo, bosom buddy, of science and visa versa.

Mother Teresa, in a sense was only a victim of men majoring in minors...some feelings of good and bad are programmed by man from a person&#039;s desire to just do good and help...little did she know that her first longing to help before any influenece of hell or guilt from the church was enough. She also said,

&quot;If I ever become a Saint_I will surely be one of &#039;darkness.&#039; I will continually be absent from Heaven-to [ight] the light of those in darkness on earth,&quot;

If I lived as she lived and saw everyday what she saw I too would be on the dark side...but the dark side is like religion to science and if Mother Teresa were to be called the Saint of Darkness, it would be an honor and at the time of her supposed faithless writing she was going through something that seemed quite logical.

Church formed law, centuries turning- the law abides now whether you are religious or not. A scientist who is athiest is nothing less than a superb being and not a psychopath because they aren&#039;t out there doing bad. Some people without religion live a life of doing bad and its not good. Question is, why?

ah-perhaps the nurture nature theory? Mother Teresa by nature wanted to live a life of chariable help-her environment by puberty was a church with a less than a respectable and powerful history and then her immediate environemnt was filled with suffering and sadness for-the-rest-of her life. Is it really any wonder why she struggled with her faith when you think about it scientifically?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Afterall, man created the study of science as man did the study of religion. Period.</p>
<p>With science it would be correct to use the words correct or incorrect. With religion it would be correct to use the terms good or bad-noting that good and bad are both the light and the dark. The things that make me feel good are usually good-maybe not charitable but certainly not agaisnt the law [of man][(most things <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ]). When I tend to do things bad I either feel bad or have caused a negative result.</p>
<p>Duh. Doesn&#8217;t everyone do this? If we don&#8217;t understand consequences for our actions doesn&#8217;t that make us psychopaths, a wrong number, if you will? We think more than an ant. A baboon will never be interested in the lenses supporting dark energy.</p>
<p>It is my belief that without the light you cannot have the dark, period. They coexist as one. If they didn&#8217;t we would all be lost; we would all be a lost cause uncapable of love, life, and wrong or right choices.</p>
<p>I am not blue funked by religion or science because they are clearly studies of a different family both with stories to tell. I do not however, when you take a man majoring in minors out of the equation, disagree with such an idea as to say religion is the adherent, adviser, alter ego, amigo, bosom buddy, of science and visa versa.</p>
<p>Mother Teresa, in a sense was only a victim of men majoring in minors&#8230;some feelings of good and bad are programmed by man from a person&#8217;s desire to just do good and help&#8230;little did she know that her first longing to help before any influenece of hell or guilt from the church was enough. She also said,</p>
<p>&#8220;If I ever become a Saint_I will surely be one of &#8216;darkness.&#8217; I will continually be absent from Heaven-to [ight] the light of those in darkness on earth,&#8221;</p>
<p>If I lived as she lived and saw everyday what she saw I too would be on the dark side&#8230;but the dark side is like religion to science and if Mother Teresa were to be called the Saint of Darkness, it would be an honor and at the time of her supposed faithless writing she was going through something that seemed quite logical.</p>
<p>Church formed law, centuries turning- the law abides now whether you are religious or not. A scientist who is athiest is nothing less than a superb being and not a psychopath because they aren&#8217;t out there doing bad. Some people without religion live a life of doing bad and its not good. Question is, why?</p>
<p>ah-perhaps the nurture nature theory? Mother Teresa by nature wanted to live a life of chariable help-her environment by puberty was a church with a less than a respectable and powerful history and then her immediate environemnt was filled with suffering and sadness for-the-rest-of her life. Is it really any wonder why she struggled with her faith when you think about it scientifically?</p>
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		<title>By: melisa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31345</link>
		<dc:creator>melisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31345</guid>
		<description>Afterall, man created the study of science as man did the study of religion. Period.

With science it would be correct to use the words correct or incorrect. With religion it would be correct to use the terms good or bad-noting that good and bad are both the light and the dark. The things that make me feel good are usually good-maybe not charitable but certainly not agaisnt the law [of man][(most things :)]). When I tend to do things bad I either feel bad or have caused a negative result.

Duh. Doesn&#039;t everyone do this? If we don&#039;t understand consequences for our actions doesn&#039;t that make us psychopaths, a wrong number, if you will? We think more than an ant. A baboon will never be interested in the lenses supporting dark energy.

It is my belief that without the light you cannot have the dark, period. They coexist as one. If they didn&#039;t we would all be lost; we would all be a lost cause uncapable of love, life, and wrong or right choices.

I am not blue funked by religion or science because they are clearly studies of a different family both with stories to tell. I do not however, when you take a man majoring in minors out of the equation, disagree with such an idea as to say religion is the adherent, adviser, alter ego, amigo, bosom buddy, of science and visa versa.

Mother Teresa, in a sense was only a victim of men majoring in minors...some feelings of good and bad are programmed by man from a person&#039;s desire to just do good and help...little did she know that her first longing to help before any influenece of hell or guilt from the church was enough. She also said,

&quot;If I ever become a Saint_I will surely be one of &#039;darkness.&#039; I will continually be absent from Heaven-to [ight] the light of those in darkness on earth,&quot;

If I lived as she lived and saw everyday what she saw I too would be on the dark side...but the dark side is like religion to science and if Mother Teresa were to be called the Saint of Darkness, it would be an honor and at the time of her supposed faithless writing she was going through something that seemed quite logical.

Church formed law. centuries turning Law abides now wether you are religious or not. A scientist who is athiest is nothing less than a superb being and not a psychopath because they aren&#039;t out there doing bad. Some people without religion live a life of doing bad and its not good. Questions i why? ah-perhaps teh nurture nature theory? Mother Teresa by nature wanted to live a life of chariable help-her envirnment was a church with a less than respectable and powerful history and then her immediate environemnt was filled with suffering adn sadness. Is it really any wonder why she struggled with her faith when you think about it scientifically?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Afterall, man created the study of science as man did the study of religion. Period.</p>
<p>With science it would be correct to use the words correct or incorrect. With religion it would be correct to use the terms good or bad-noting that good and bad are both the light and the dark. The things that make me feel good are usually good-maybe not charitable but certainly not agaisnt the law [of man][(most things <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ]). When I tend to do things bad I either feel bad or have caused a negative result.</p>
<p>Duh. Doesn&#8217;t everyone do this? If we don&#8217;t understand consequences for our actions doesn&#8217;t that make us psychopaths, a wrong number, if you will? We think more than an ant. A baboon will never be interested in the lenses supporting dark energy.</p>
<p>It is my belief that without the light you cannot have the dark, period. They coexist as one. If they didn&#8217;t we would all be lost; we would all be a lost cause uncapable of love, life, and wrong or right choices.</p>
<p>I am not blue funked by religion or science because they are clearly studies of a different family both with stories to tell. I do not however, when you take a man majoring in minors out of the equation, disagree with such an idea as to say religion is the adherent, adviser, alter ego, amigo, bosom buddy, of science and visa versa.</p>
<p>Mother Teresa, in a sense was only a victim of men majoring in minors&#8230;some feelings of good and bad are programmed by man from a person&#8217;s desire to just do good and help&#8230;little did she know that her first longing to help before any influenece of hell or guilt from the church was enough. She also said,</p>
<p>&#8220;If I ever become a Saint_I will surely be one of &#8216;darkness.&#8217; I will continually be absent from Heaven-to [ight] the light of those in darkness on earth,&#8221;</p>
<p>If I lived as she lived and saw everyday what she saw I too would be on the dark side&#8230;but the dark side is like religion to science and if Mother Teresa were to be called the Saint of Darkness, it would be an honor and at the time of her supposed faithless writing she was going through something that seemed quite logical.</p>
<p>Church formed law. centuries turning Law abides now wether you are religious or not. A scientist who is athiest is nothing less than a superb being and not a psychopath because they aren&#8217;t out there doing bad. Some people without religion live a life of doing bad and its not good. Questions i why? ah-perhaps teh nurture nature theory? Mother Teresa by nature wanted to live a life of chariable help-her envirnment was a church with a less than respectable and powerful history and then her immediate environemnt was filled with suffering adn sadness. Is it really any wonder why she struggled with her faith when you think about it scientifically?</p>
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		<title>By: Vlad the Impala</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31344</link>
		<dc:creator>Vlad the Impala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31344</guid>
		<description>Ah, my browser ate that last link.

It should be &lt;a href=&quot;http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2006/07/saints-and-horrors.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, my browser ate that last link.</p>
<p>It should be <a href="http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2006/07/saints-and-horrors.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Vlad the Impala</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31343</link>
		<dc:creator>Vlad the Impala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31343</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m stunned at how many people have swallowed the myth of Teressa&#039;s charity and goodness. The woman was a shill for the Vatican. Mike Schuler above defends her &quot;honesty&quot; -- but her private doubts don&#039;t make up for her public lies. And one of her last wishes was for her letters to be destroyed. John Mail claims &quot;her purpose was to alleviate suffering, poverty, and disease for its own sake and not as a means to an end but as an end in itself&quot; -- where&#039;s the evidence for this astounding claim? Everything she did publicly was to win converts for the Catholic Church. The money she collected for &quot;charity&quot; ended up in the Vatican&#039;s coffers, not to improve the lot of Calcutta&#039;s poor.

I&#039;ve written more about the fraud of Teressa &lt;a href=&quot;http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2007/09/faithless.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2006/07/saints-and-horrors.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m stunned at how many people have swallowed the myth of Teressa&#8217;s charity and goodness. The woman was a shill for the Vatican. Mike Schuler above defends her &#8220;honesty&#8221; &#8212; but her private doubts don&#8217;t make up for her public lies. And one of her last wishes was for her letters to be destroyed. John Mail claims &#8220;her purpose was to alleviate suffering, poverty, and disease for its own sake and not as a means to an end but as an end in itself&#8221; &#8212; where&#8217;s the evidence for this astounding claim? Everything she did publicly was to win converts for the Catholic Church. The money she collected for &#8220;charity&#8221; ended up in the Vatican&#8217;s coffers, not to improve the lot of Calcutta&#8217;s poor.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve written more about the fraud of Teressa <a href="http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2007/09/faithless.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2006/07/saints-and-horrors.html" rel="nofollow"></a>.</p>
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		<title>By: TP</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31301</link>
		<dc:creator>TP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31301</guid>
		<description>Any belief system, including science, need irrationality. A huge chunk of research in science is rationalizing (resolving conflicts between) some observations, the researcher&#039;s expectations (which definitely depend on his a priori world view for which there may not be any rational explanation). Any theory starts with some assumptions or axioms and isn&#039;t the choice of axioms irrational? Doesn&#039;t the choice depend on some a priori world view? Of course axioms can be changed but aren&#039;t the new ones again dependent on some &#039;irrational&#039; belief that they reflect the &#039;reality&#039;? Can one propose a theory without axioms? Without axioms can one use mathematics, which is so useful a tool in science today?

&quot;from our attempts to understand how the universe works.&quot;

Isn&#039;t the belief that the universe can be understood and that there is a &#039;The Truth&#039; to be found, which is apparently what drives so many scientists to work hard, to devote themselves to science, itself irrational? If this belief is rational, why is it? If it is not or cannot be said to be rational or irrational, then isn&#039;t science itself irrational?

In any case is there any inherent &#039;value&#039;, in a loose sense, in pursuing &#039;The Truth&#039; as compared to other possible paths? I see no &#039;value&#039; other than utility as defined, vaguely and of course irrationally, by the society as a whole. If then &#039;utility as defined by the society&#039; is met by any other belief system, isn&#039;t it as valuable as science itself?

I wish the word &#039;irrationality&#039; is not used in so demeaning sense. Generally debates like these tend to become science vs religion. What I say is the two can coexist and if combined well can be more powerful than either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any belief system, including science, need irrationality. A huge chunk of research in science is rationalizing (resolving conflicts between) some observations, the researcher&#8217;s expectations (which definitely depend on his a priori world view for which there may not be any rational explanation). Any theory starts with some assumptions or axioms and isn&#8217;t the choice of axioms irrational? Doesn&#8217;t the choice depend on some a priori world view? Of course axioms can be changed but aren&#8217;t the new ones again dependent on some &#8216;irrational&#8217; belief that they reflect the &#8216;reality&#8217;? Can one propose a theory without axioms? Without axioms can one use mathematics, which is so useful a tool in science today?</p>
<p>&#8220;from our attempts to understand how the universe works.&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t the belief that the universe can be understood and that there is a &#8216;The Truth&#8217; to be found, which is apparently what drives so many scientists to work hard, to devote themselves to science, itself irrational? If this belief is rational, why is it? If it is not or cannot be said to be rational or irrational, then isn&#8217;t science itself irrational?</p>
<p>In any case is there any inherent &#8216;value&#8217;, in a loose sense, in pursuing &#8216;The Truth&#8217; as compared to other possible paths? I see no &#8216;value&#8217; other than utility as defined, vaguely and of course irrationally, by the society as a whole. If then &#8216;utility as defined by the society&#8217; is met by any other belief system, isn&#8217;t it as valuable as science itself?</p>
<p>I wish the word &#8216;irrationality&#8217; is not used in so demeaning sense. Generally debates like these tend to become science vs religion. What I say is the two can coexist and if combined well can be more powerful than either.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31300</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31300</guid>
		<description>A very interesting and enlightening discussion on this matter can be found at http://www.agelesswisdom.com/archives_of_radio_shows.htm , show dated 8/24/07 and entitled &quot;Difficulties of Advanced Humans, Sages, and Saints&#8212;Mother&#039;s Teresa&#039;s Issues.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very interesting and enlightening discussion on this matter can be found at <a href="http://www.agelesswisdom.com/archives_of_radio_shows.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.agelesswisdom.com/archives_of_radio_shows.htm</a> , show dated 8/24/07 and entitled &#8220;Difficulties of Advanced Humans, Sages, and Saints&mdash;Mother&#8217;s Teresa&#8217;s Issues.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kunda</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31335</link>
		<dc:creator>Kunda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31335</guid>
		<description>&quot;We should keep them separate from our attempts to understand how the universe works.&quot;

And atheists should keep their arguments against God separate from their attempts to understand how the universe works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We should keep them separate from our attempts to understand how the universe works.&#8221;</p>
<p>And atheists should keep their arguments against God separate from their attempts to understand how the universe works.</p>
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		<title>By: Manuel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31334</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 03:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31334</guid>
		<description>Mother Theresa saw God everyday, in the face of those she cared for.
She just didn&#039;t see Him, she still wanted to believe in the dream of god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mother Theresa saw God everyday, in the face of those she cared for.<br />
She just didn&#8217;t see Him, she still wanted to believe in the dream of god.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/comment-page-1/#comment-31292</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/24/charity-without-religious-belief-mother-teresa/#comment-31292</guid>
		<description>These debates always remind me of a famous comment: &quot;There are two types of physicists.  Those who had problems with their crystal sets when they were young, and those who had problems with their God.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These debates always remind me of a famous comment: &#8220;There are two types of physicists.  Those who had problems with their crystal sets when they were young, and those who had problems with their God.&#8221;</p>
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