<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Pesky Democratic Process</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:16:21 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Chanda</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31371</link>
		<dc:creator>Chanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31371</guid>
		<description>This brings back lovely memories of places like parts of Hollywood Blvd collapsing when I was in high school. I continue to be amused by the effort to build a subway in the face of the massively stupid decision to let GM buy and destroy the street car system to help automobile sales/freeway development back in the 50s (40s?). Anyone who has ever been a teenager without a license in LA knows to have a good sense of humour about the concept of public transportation :) In the face of all this, I remain a proud product of East Los!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This brings back lovely memories of places like parts of Hollywood Blvd collapsing when I was in high school. I continue to be amused by the effort to build a subway in the face of the massively stupid decision to let GM buy and destroy the street car system to help automobile sales/freeway development back in the 50s (40s?). Anyone who has ever been a teenager without a license in LA knows to have a good sense of humour about the concept of public transportation <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  In the face of all this, I remain a proud product of East Los!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31363</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31363</guid>
		<description>And of course, in theory, the government agency in a one-party state is all-knowledgable and cannot make a mistake, and there is no need for citizens to have input into the process - a little like agencies in a centralised planned economy making decisions as to what will be required in the next five years. Now weren&#039;t centralised planned economies such great successes?

But real life is more complicated. By having open systems, information more readily flows, and there is a greater chance that information pertinent to the building of some subway will come to light. So what if it&#039;s harder or messier - there is no guarantee that the end result will be better in a one-party system - it may be more quickly built, but the relative lack of information flow will mean that any problems with the construction may not come to light as quickly in a more open system. Think about the SARS outbreak - the Chinese govt denied the existence of the outbreak of SARS at the start, and was that a good thing to do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And of course, in theory, the government agency in a one-party state is all-knowledgable and cannot make a mistake, and there is no need for citizens to have input into the process &#8211; a little like agencies in a centralised planned economy making decisions as to what will be required in the next five years. Now weren&#8217;t centralised planned economies such great successes?</p>
<p>But real life is more complicated. By having open systems, information more readily flows, and there is a greater chance that information pertinent to the building of some subway will come to light. So what if it&#8217;s harder or messier &#8211; there is no guarantee that the end result will be better in a one-party system &#8211; it may be more quickly built, but the relative lack of information flow will mean that any problems with the construction may not come to light as quickly in a more open system. Think about the SARS outbreak &#8211; the Chinese govt denied the existence of the outbreak of SARS at the start, and was that a good thing to do?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31359</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31359</guid>
		<description>Ugh, and another thing that really bothers me is all those radical anti-government artists.  If only ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, and another thing that really bothers me is all those radical anti-government artists.  If only &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Haelfix</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31376</link>
		<dc:creator>Haelfix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 05:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31376</guid>
		<description>A good subway service is completely doable in LA, and would of course be beneficial economically and environmentally in the long run.  It just require that the state and city coordinates a sensible plan over several years/decades to finance.

It would of course require cuts in other sectors to help pay, and given how spend thrifty they are, I doubt we will ever see such a thing (Californians love their local program initiatives).  Ahnuld&#039;s green push gives some incentive to completing this task in the not so distant future, but by most expert accounts it seems hopelessly ambitious and difficult.  Still at least they&#039;re trying, and thats ok.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good subway service is completely doable in LA, and would of course be beneficial economically and environmentally in the long run.  It just require that the state and city coordinates a sensible plan over several years/decades to finance.</p>
<p>It would of course require cuts in other sectors to help pay, and given how spend thrifty they are, I doubt we will ever see such a thing (Californians love their local program initiatives).  Ahnuld&#8217;s green push gives some incentive to completing this task in the not so distant future, but by most expert accounts it seems hopelessly ambitious and difficult.  Still at least they&#8217;re trying, and thats ok.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maynard Handley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31377</link>
		<dc:creator>Maynard Handley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 05:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31377</guid>
		<description>Sean, I think the more interesting point here is the issue of delayed gratification.
I think few in the US want the sort of situation that exists in China.
However it is a fact that much of the US infrastructure is basically frozen in 1970, apparently unable to move on because of complaints by various groups. A more obvious example than LA subway issues is the completion of, say, highway 710 through Alhambra, and highway 110 through South Pasadena.

The larger issue is that we seem to have created a situation now where nothing substantial can happen wrt infrastructure. On the one hand we have (often for goood reason) people who aren&#039;t willing to accept govt reassurances about how they will be compensated; on the other hand we have governments that seem unable to comprehend the simple idea of buying out people for a FAIR price rather than insulting compensation; on the third hand we have various (usually very much minority) organizations who for whatever obsessive reasons of their own want to throw a spanner in the works regardless of honest assessements of cost/benefits for society as a whole.

What we really want is honest assesment of the situation, and some ideas of how to resolve it. I do think that, until each of these three pathologies is admitted by the relevant parties, no progress is possible.

On more general points:
(1) The LA subway is not perfect, but it is nice for the situations when it works. For example I&#039;ve used it to get to theaters, which is otherwise a nightmare for parking.
(2) LA traffic is far more bearable if you get yourself organized, subscribe to some good podcasts, and listen to something interesting as you drive. I really recommend this way of doing things rather than letting yourself stew, or relying on whatever random stuff comes over the airwaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, I think the more interesting point here is the issue of delayed gratification.<br />
I think few in the US want the sort of situation that exists in China.<br />
However it is a fact that much of the US infrastructure is basically frozen in 1970, apparently unable to move on because of complaints by various groups. A more obvious example than LA subway issues is the completion of, say, highway 710 through Alhambra, and highway 110 through South Pasadena.</p>
<p>The larger issue is that we seem to have created a situation now where nothing substantial can happen wrt infrastructure. On the one hand we have (often for goood reason) people who aren&#8217;t willing to accept govt reassurances about how they will be compensated; on the other hand we have governments that seem unable to comprehend the simple idea of buying out people for a FAIR price rather than insulting compensation; on the third hand we have various (usually very much minority) organizations who for whatever obsessive reasons of their own want to throw a spanner in the works regardless of honest assessements of cost/benefits for society as a whole.</p>
<p>What we really want is honest assesment of the situation, and some ideas of how to resolve it. I do think that, until each of these three pathologies is admitted by the relevant parties, no progress is possible.</p>
<p>On more general points:<br />
(1) The LA subway is not perfect, but it is nice for the situations when it works. For example I&#8217;ve used it to get to theaters, which is otherwise a nightmare for parking.<br />
(2) LA traffic is far more bearable if you get yourself organized, subscribe to some good podcasts, and listen to something interesting as you drive. I really recommend this way of doing things rather than letting yourself stew, or relying on whatever random stuff comes over the airwaves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sysrick.com</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31375</link>
		<dc:creator>sysrick.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31375</guid>
		<description>[...] Pesky Democratic Process [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pesky Democratic Process [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31358</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31358</guid>
		<description>AD, I drive into work rather than commuting; the Gold Line doesn&#039;t stop as close to Caltech as it would if the world were arranged for my personal convenience.  But I keep telling myself I will start doing so on occasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AD, I drive into work rather than commuting; the Gold Line doesn&#8217;t stop as close to Caltech as it would if the world were arranged for my personal convenience.  But I keep telling myself I will start doing so on occasion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31357</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31357</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livescience.com/environment/060621_san_andreas.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Expanding LA&#039;s infrastructure is a waste of resources&lt;/a&gt;. Instead, one should build new cities and evacuate LA. At least, that&#039;s what the Chinese would do. Just think about the big Chinese projects like the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Three Gorges Dam&lt;/a&gt; and the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.water-technology.net/projects/south_north/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;South-to-North Water Diversion Project&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.livescience.com/environment/060621_san_andreas.html" rel="nofollow">Expanding LA&#8217;s infrastructure is a waste of resources</a>. Instead, one should build new cities and evacuate LA. At least, that&#8217;s what the Chinese would do. Just think about the big Chinese projects like the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam" rel="nofollow">Three Gorges Dam</a> and the <a href="http://www.water-technology.net/projects/south_north/" rel="nofollow">South-to-North Water Diversion Project</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The AstroDyke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31374</link>
		<dc:creator>The AstroDyke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31374</guid>
		<description>Sean, since you live in Downtown LA &amp; work in Pasadena, do you commute on the Gold Line?

Stevie, it&#039;s a shame you never tried the LA light rail yourself.  It&#039;s not an all-in-one solution, but for limited applications from Pasadena, it&#039;s pretty good.  (to Union Station to catch the Flyaway shuttle to LAX; to downtown museums; to the Fashion District; to parts of Hollywood; to the South Pas farmers market.)

It&#039;s worth re-iterating Peter Erwin&#039;s comment that LA once had an extensive network of streetcars &amp; trains -- LA got sprawly on mass transit, not cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, since you live in Downtown LA &amp; work in Pasadena, do you commute on the Gold Line?</p>
<p>Stevie, it&#8217;s a shame you never tried the LA light rail yourself.  It&#8217;s not an all-in-one solution, but for limited applications from Pasadena, it&#8217;s pretty good.  (to Union Station to catch the Flyaway shuttle to LAX; to downtown museums; to the Fashion District; to parts of Hollywood; to the South Pas farmers market.)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth re-iterating Peter Erwin&#8217;s comment that LA once had an extensive network of streetcars &amp; trains &#8212; LA got sprawly on mass transit, not cars.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/comment-page-1/#comment-31356</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/26/pesky-democratic-process/#comment-31356</guid>
		<description>Those crazy leftists, always whining about how individual citizens have too much input on zoning and urban planning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those crazy leftists, always whining about how individual citizens have too much input on zoning and urban planning.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
