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	<title>Comments on: Arguments For Things I Don&#8217;t Believe, 1:  Research on String Theory is Largely a Waste of Time</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Science and Unobservable Things &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-78383</link>
		<dc:creator>Science and Unobservable Things &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-78383</guid>
		<description>[...] to match onto particle physics and cosmology. The program may or may not work &#8212; it&#8217;s certainly hard, and we may ultimately decide that it&#8217;s just too hard, or find an idea that works just as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to match onto particle physics and cosmology. The program may or may not work &#8212; it&#8217;s certainly hard, and we may ultimately decide that it&#8217;s just too hard, or find an idea that works just as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What Will the LHC Find? &#124; Cosmic Variance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31436</link>
		<dc:creator>What Will the LHC Find? &#124; Cosmic Variance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31436</guid>
		<description>[...] for or against String Theory: 0.5%. Our current understanding of string theory doesn&#8217;t tell us which LHC-accessible models are or are not compatible with the theory; it may [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for or against String Theory: 0.5%. Our current understanding of string theory doesn&#8217;t tell us which LHC-accessible models are or are not compatible with the theory; it may [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alejandro Rivero</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31435</link>
		<dc:creator>Alejandro Rivero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31435</guid>
		<description>Time ago in other similar thread Baez was arguing against the theorem &quot;spin2=graviton&quot;. Let me pursue this &quot;no graviton theme&quot; further: suppose we can compactify strings to 4D in a way (say, NCG or some retorted nogeometric thing) that there is not spin 2 particle down there: then string theory could still be a supersymmetry theory of gauge interactions. Furthermore, suppose it works and it predicts all the susy parameters. Should it to *disproof* string theory?

As a minimum, as it does not include gravity anymore, it is an argument for the restricted idea &quot;Research on String Theory is Largely a Waste of Time for Quantum Gravity&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time ago in other similar thread Baez was arguing against the theorem &#8220;spin2=graviton&#8221;. Let me pursue this &#8220;no graviton theme&#8221; further: suppose we can compactify strings to 4D in a way (say, NCG or some retorted nogeometric thing) that there is not spin 2 particle down there: then string theory could still be a supersymmetry theory of gauge interactions. Furthermore, suppose it works and it predicts all the susy parameters. Should it to *disproof* string theory?</p>
<p>As a minimum, as it does not include gravity anymore, it is an argument for the restricted idea &#8220;Research on String Theory is Largely a Waste of Time for Quantum Gravity&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin C Ware</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31434</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin C Ware</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31434</guid>
		<description>There is much discussion on myriad aspects on the Theory of Everything (TOE).  I have been seeking the conditions that will define, at the least, forms of a -- the -- basis for developing a true, non-theoretical description of TOE.  I strongly believe that certain physical properties will be included in this base or foundation for building toward TOE.  What will these be?

What drives us to pursue TOE?  I came onto this blog asking Google &quot;benefits of knowing the theory of everything&quot;.  Behind this search are my questions such as: What specific physical elements or properties will be inter-related?  How will they be related?  That is, what form of theory-less equations and supporting statements will do this?  Perhaps TOE will not be &quot;completely&quot; defined, but what would be sufficient to point us in the &quot;correct?&quot; assured direction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is much discussion on myriad aspects on the Theory of Everything (TOE).  I have been seeking the conditions that will define, at the least, forms of a &#8212; the &#8212; basis for developing a true, non-theoretical description of TOE.  I strongly believe that certain physical properties will be included in this base or foundation for building toward TOE.  What will these be?</p>
<p>What drives us to pursue TOE?  I came onto this blog asking Google &#8220;benefits of knowing the theory of everything&#8221;.  Behind this search are my questions such as: What specific physical elements or properties will be inter-related?  How will they be related?  That is, what form of theory-less equations and supporting statements will do this?  Perhaps TOE will not be &#8220;completely&#8221; defined, but what would be sufficient to point us in the &#8220;correct?&#8221; assured direction?</p>
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		<title>By: BXCellent</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31400</link>
		<dc:creator>BXCellent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31400</guid>
		<description>String theory isn&#039;t exactly a waste of time, but it shouldn&#039;t be the only approach to solving the unsolved problems of physics. It seems to have stopped Physicists from thinking outside the box and instead try to come up with more and more spin to sell it despite the problems it encounters.

My points would be:

1) Its not a theory - no equations, no way of proving true / false
2) Its not one theory, its 10^500 or more, if you subscribe to the landscape, with so many theories one is bound to describe our universe, you just need to plug in the right 500 numbers (as opposed to a factor of ten less constants in the SM)
3) Its not background independent, so can never describe a changing spacetime geometry as required by GR
4) It moved from a hadron theory to a quantum gravity theory because it described the graviton. But gravity is not a force in GR, it&#039;s paths through a changing geometry to preserve minimal PE, why do we even need a graviton?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>String theory isn&#8217;t exactly a waste of time, but it shouldn&#8217;t be the only approach to solving the unsolved problems of physics. It seems to have stopped Physicists from thinking outside the box and instead try to come up with more and more spin to sell it despite the problems it encounters.</p>
<p>My points would be:</p>
<p>1) Its not a theory &#8211; no equations, no way of proving true / false<br />
2) Its not one theory, its 10^500 or more, if you subscribe to the landscape, with so many theories one is bound to describe our universe, you just need to plug in the right 500 numbers (as opposed to a factor of ten less constants in the SM)<br />
3) Its not background independent, so can never describe a changing spacetime geometry as required by GR<br />
4) It moved from a hadron theory to a quantum gravity theory because it described the graviton. But gravity is not a force in GR, it&#8217;s paths through a changing geometry to preserve minimal PE, why do we even need a graviton?</p>
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		<title>By: The Reality About Physics:.. Physicist (Experimental.. &#187; Science Discoveries . net</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31404</link>
		<dc:creator>The Reality About Physics:.. Physicist (Experimental.. &#187; Science Discoveries . net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31404</guid>
		<description>[...] Google Blog Search: particle physics ]   Comment on Arguments For Things I Don?t Believe, 1: Research on &#8230; The trouble with arguing that String Theory is inherently unpredictive about particle physics, as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Google Blog Search: particle physics ]   Comment on Arguments For Things I Don?t Believe, 1: Research on &#8230; The trouble with arguing that String Theory is inherently unpredictive about particle physics, as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Dick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31403</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 03:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31403</guid>
		<description>Alex Na,

A large number of theoretical physicists have tried for a few decades now to understand what string theory implies about reality without success.  This isn&#039;t to say that we&#039;ve learned nothing at all about string theory.  But what we have learned hasn&#039;t told us anything about any observations we might make, despite the very large number of man-hours employed in understanding it.  So string theory is definitely &quot;very hard&quot;.  But whether or not it&#039;s too hard is clearly a judgment call.

I guess I haven&#039;t heard of any more promising theory for quantum gravity, so I don&#039;t see why theorists shouldn&#039;t keep trying to understand string theory.  From what I understand, we are essentially guaranteed to understand more about mathematics anyway just by pursuing string theory, mathematics that will be useful whether or not string theory turns out to be accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex Na,</p>
<p>A large number of theoretical physicists have tried for a few decades now to understand what string theory implies about reality without success.  This isn&#8217;t to say that we&#8217;ve learned nothing at all about string theory.  But what we have learned hasn&#8217;t told us anything about any observations we might make, despite the very large number of man-hours employed in understanding it.  So string theory is definitely &#8220;very hard&#8221;.  But whether or not it&#8217;s too hard is clearly a judgment call.</p>
<p>I guess I haven&#8217;t heard of any more promising theory for quantum gravity, so I don&#8217;t see why theorists shouldn&#8217;t keep trying to understand string theory.  From what I understand, we are essentially guaranteed to understand more about mathematics anyway just by pursuing string theory, mathematics that will be useful whether or not string theory turns out to be accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Na</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31402</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Na</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31402</guid>
		<description>&quot;It is too hard&quot;

What is too hard? I mean any problem you don&#039;t know the algorithm to solve is hard. Beyond that, how do you differentiate the levels of hardness?

It is all in the realm of unknown and the main attribute of it is being unknown ;) So we just do not know how hard it is. There is a chance someone tomorrow ( or next year) will show all of us how simple (OK, not that hard) it is.

I am just trying to be optimistic here.

Great blog. Just subscribed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It is too hard&#8221;</p>
<p>What is too hard? I mean any problem you don&#8217;t know the algorithm to solve is hard. Beyond that, how do you differentiate the levels of hardness?</p>
<p>It is all in the realm of unknown and the main attribute of it is being unknown <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  So we just do not know how hard it is. There is a chance someone tomorrow ( or next year) will show all of us how simple (OK, not that hard) it is.</p>
<p>I am just trying to be optimistic here.</p>
<p>Great blog. Just subscribed.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31433</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31433</guid>
		<description>Harold, the point is that something maybe being too hard(note that he never bothered to make the case that it is to hard, just that it might be) is not a convincing argument, despite his declaration of &quot;Pretty convincing, eh?&quot; Arguing that it is a waste of time because it is hard is a fundamentally different argument then it being a waste of time because it is wrong/ not even wrong. This is supposed to be an improvement on the arguments of those who actually take the position. Second he doesn&#039;t believe it is to hard, he allows for the conclusions to not warrant the conclusion and he could do the same with it being a wrong or at least bad approach.

This would be equivalent to if for &quot;God exists&quot; argument he argued for an existance as an idea rather then as people think he exists as part of/the creator of reality. It is disengenous to pretend he is arguing about the same thing as Woit, Smolin and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold, the point is that something maybe being too hard(note that he never bothered to make the case that it is to hard, just that it might be) is not a convincing argument, despite his declaration of &#8220;Pretty convincing, eh?&#8221; Arguing that it is a waste of time because it is hard is a fundamentally different argument then it being a waste of time because it is wrong/ not even wrong. This is supposed to be an improvement on the arguments of those who actually take the position. Second he doesn&#8217;t believe it is to hard, he allows for the conclusions to not warrant the conclusion and he could do the same with it being a wrong or at least bad approach.</p>
<p>This would be equivalent to if for &#8220;God exists&#8221; argument he argued for an existance as an idea rather then as people think he exists as part of/the creator of reality. It is disengenous to pretend he is arguing about the same thing as Woit, Smolin and others.</p>
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		<title>By: Hag</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/comment-page-1/#comment-31432</link>
		<dc:creator>Hag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/08/29/arguments-for-things-i-dont-believe-1-research-on-string-theory-is-a-largely-waste-of-time/#comment-31432</guid>
		<description>I think Sean should have left this item as the last.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Sean should have left this item as the last.</p>
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