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	<title>Comments on: Is the Universe a Computer?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-92043</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-92043</guid>
		<description>Why are people always searching for an alternative to the obvious?

I want you to think of a dream. In that dream you created things. If you have vivid dreams like me and many others your dreams contain objects that are solid, have weight, and operate--sometimes defying the laws of physics.

God gave us dreams to allow us to see how THOUGHT itself can create. The universe is not a computer program--it is pure thought. It actually has no substance--just as your  dream actually has no substance although you could swear it does while your asleep. Is yellow really bright? Not to someone without eyes. Is rock really hard? Not to someone without a body. In a sense you could think of what God created as some type of program, in that rock is programmed to feel hard to us--but just as when you dream the rock is just thought.

The universe is sustained by God&#039;s thought. If you wanted you dead he would not have to kill you--he could simply stop thinking of you. But unlike our dreams God has given that which he creates much independence. It can operate apart from him and has real life of its own. But make no mistake it resides in God&#039;s thought--not in any physical place.

Scientists often state that miracles are impossible because of the laws of physics. But those laws were set by God and are just as meaningless as those laws are in our dreams. To turn water into wine, or to raise Christ is just as easy as it is in our dreams for God. Its no feat--its no miracle for him. The real miracle is that we invent new ways of denying him. In our arrogance we uncreate the one who created life. You have to really work to deny something so obvious.  No mathematician in the world can reconcile the universe with the laws of probablity--and thats the *Result of the universe---its not even taking into account that it must have Laws to even begin running the program. A child can see the odds cannot be beat--Plus, the odds of something coming out of nothing in a spacetime universe are not even odds--they are Zero. God is not in Spacetime--it was his idea.

Like a child, and not like a know it all, ask Him tonight if Christ was real--and if he is--- you will trust him---do that tonight and God promises he will not leave such an innocent heart in disbelief. Its not about a fact finding mission, a detective story--its about God revealing the truth to you supernaturally. Then you will really get a chance to experience the entire universe forever.

Dont think a witty retort---a clever response that you can impress yourself with--just ask God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are people always searching for an alternative to the obvious?</p>
<p>I want you to think of a dream. In that dream you created things. If you have vivid dreams like me and many others your dreams contain objects that are solid, have weight, and operate&#8211;sometimes defying the laws of physics.</p>
<p>God gave us dreams to allow us to see how THOUGHT itself can create. The universe is not a computer program&#8211;it is pure thought. It actually has no substance&#8211;just as your  dream actually has no substance although you could swear it does while your asleep. Is yellow really bright? Not to someone without eyes. Is rock really hard? Not to someone without a body. In a sense you could think of what God created as some type of program, in that rock is programmed to feel hard to us&#8211;but just as when you dream the rock is just thought.</p>
<p>The universe is sustained by God&#8217;s thought. If you wanted you dead he would not have to kill you&#8211;he could simply stop thinking of you. But unlike our dreams God has given that which he creates much independence. It can operate apart from him and has real life of its own. But make no mistake it resides in God&#8217;s thought&#8211;not in any physical place.</p>
<p>Scientists often state that miracles are impossible because of the laws of physics. But those laws were set by God and are just as meaningless as those laws are in our dreams. To turn water into wine, or to raise Christ is just as easy as it is in our dreams for God. Its no feat&#8211;its no miracle for him. The real miracle is that we invent new ways of denying him. In our arrogance we uncreate the one who created life. You have to really work to deny something so obvious.  No mathematician in the world can reconcile the universe with the laws of probablity&#8211;and thats the *Result of the universe&#8212;its not even taking into account that it must have Laws to even begin running the program. A child can see the odds cannot be beat&#8211;Plus, the odds of something coming out of nothing in a spacetime universe are not even odds&#8211;they are Zero. God is not in Spacetime&#8211;it was his idea.</p>
<p>Like a child, and not like a know it all, ask Him tonight if Christ was real&#8211;and if he is&#8212; you will trust him&#8212;do that tonight and God promises he will not leave such an innocent heart in disbelief. Its not about a fact finding mission, a detective story&#8211;its about God revealing the truth to you supernaturally. Then you will really get a chance to experience the entire universe forever.</p>
<p>Dont think a witty retort&#8212;a clever response that you can impress yourself with&#8211;just ask God.</p>
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		<title>By: The universe is probably not a quantum computer &#171; Shores of the Dirac Sea</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-62211</link>
		<dc:creator>The universe is probably not a quantum computer &#171; Shores of the Dirac Sea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-62211</guid>
		<description>[...] don&#8217;t define precisely what you mean by a computer (something that some advocates of the idea carefully avoid), the universe could very well  be a computer (same goes for my socks) . But serious people would [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] don&#8217;t define precisely what you mean by a computer (something that some advocates of the idea carefully avoid), the universe could very well  be a computer (same goes for my socks) . But serious people would [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The basic dichotomy of quantum gravity &#171; Shores of the Dirac Sea</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35873</link>
		<dc:creator>The basic dichotomy of quantum gravity &#171; Shores of the Dirac Sea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35873</guid>
		<description>[...] consciousness, not to mention even finding the Higgs. As far as we know the universe may well be a computer, or it is human shaped, perhaps it is elephants (or turtles) all the way down, or angles dancing on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] consciousness, not to mention even finding the Higgs. As far as we know the universe may well be a computer, or it is human shaped, perhaps it is elephants (or turtles) all the way down, or angles dancing on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: zankaon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35872</link>
		<dc:creator>zankaon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 04:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35872</guid>
		<description>Nature can not be calculating orbits. If it did, then there would have to be rounding off at certain significant number of digits; hence accumulated error and instability. Alternatively, if the calculation continued to any degree of accuracy, then the Turing tape would never end. So it would seem that nature has a geometric description for orbits; hence not a computer analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nature can not be calculating orbits. If it did, then there would have to be rounding off at certain significant number of digits; hence accumulated error and instability. Alternatively, if the calculation continued to any degree of accuracy, then the Turing tape would never end. So it would seem that nature has a geometric description for orbits; hence not a computer analogy.</p>
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		<title>By: MJGeorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35871</link>
		<dc:creator>MJGeorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35871</guid>
		<description>&quot;Uhm, nobody is pretending that the universe is like the pc you are using now! A computer is an abstract mathematical device to analyze certain processes. I’m not an expert but from what I know, nothing in the concept of a computer implies an external source.&quot;

But, if we live in a quantum world, bounded by human intelligence, will not the computer accelerate the growth of human consciousness??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Uhm, nobody is pretending that the universe is like the pc you are using now! A computer is an abstract mathematical device to analyze certain processes. I’m not an expert but from what I know, nothing in the concept of a computer implies an external source.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, if we live in a quantum world, bounded by human intelligence, will not the computer accelerate the growth of human consciousness??</p>
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		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35870</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35870</guid>
		<description>Uhm, nobody is pretending that the universe is like the pc you are using now! A computer is an abstract mathematical device to analyze certain processes. I&#039;m not an expert but from what I know, nothing in the concept of a computer implies an external source.

Also, there is a nice example of self-generated &quot;computers&quot;: the life itself, at least according to Maturana and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uhm, nobody is pretending that the universe is like the pc you are using now! A computer is an abstract mathematical device to analyze certain processes. I&#8217;m not an expert but from what I know, nothing in the concept of a computer implies an external source.</p>
<p>Also, there is a nice example of self-generated &#8220;computers&#8221;: the life itself, at least according to Maturana and others.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35869</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 03:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35869</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?pagewanted=print&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dennis Overbye asks if cosmology has jumped the shark...&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;If you are reincarnated, why do you care about where you are reincarnated?&quot; he asked. &quot;It sounds crazy because here we are touching issues we are not supposed to be touching in ordinary science. Can we be reincarnated?&quot;

&quot;People are not prepared for this discussion,&quot; Dr. Linde said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The above is kind of off-topic, but hey, we&#039;re talking about whether the universe can be regarded as a computer.

(Actually, I think this notion can be very fruitful, if get the right handle on it. We don&#039;t have it yet. Further elaboration will not fit in a blog comment...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?pagewanted=print" rel="nofollow">Dennis Overbye asks if cosmology has jumped the shark&#8230;</a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;If you are reincarnated, why do you care about where you are reincarnated?&#8221; he asked. &#8220;It sounds crazy because here we are touching issues we are not supposed to be touching in ordinary science. Can we be reincarnated?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;People are not prepared for this discussion,&#8221; Dr. Linde said.</p></blockquote>
<p>The above is kind of off-topic, but hey, we&#8217;re talking about whether the universe can be regarded as a computer.</p>
<p>(Actually, I think this notion can be very fruitful, if get the right handle on it. We don&#8217;t have it yet. Further elaboration will not fit in a blog comment&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: chemicalscum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35868</link>
		<dc:creator>chemicalscum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35868</guid>
		<description>@59 NeilB,
&lt;blockquote&gt;Right, it’s deep, and I agree with those who think we still haven’t solved Schrodinger’s Cat and the &quot;collapse of the wave function.&quot; I have seen descriptions/explanations of &quot;decoherence&quot; here and elsewhere, and they always use a fundamentally circular argument&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Zurek:
&lt;blockquote&gt; New paradigms often take a long time to gain ground
Atomic theory of matter (which, until early XX century
was `just an interpretation&#039;) is the case in point. Some of
the most tangible applications and consequences of new
ideas are difficult to recognize immediately. In the case
of atomic theory, Brownian motion is a good example
Even when the evidence is out there, it is often difficult
to decode its significance.
  Decoherence and einselection are no exception. They
have been investigated for about two decades. They are
the only explanation of classicality that does not require
modifications of quantum theory...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

DECOHERENCE, EINSELECTION,
AND THE QUANTUM ORIGINS OF THE CLASSICAL

arXiv:quant-ph/0105127 v3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@59 NeilB,</p>
<blockquote><p>Right, it’s deep, and I agree with those who think we still haven’t solved Schrodinger’s Cat and the &#8220;collapse of the wave function.&#8221; I have seen descriptions/explanations of &#8220;decoherence&#8221; here and elsewhere, and they always use a fundamentally circular argument</p></blockquote>
<p>Zurek:</p>
<blockquote><p> New paradigms often take a long time to gain ground<br />
Atomic theory of matter (which, until early XX century<br />
was `just an interpretation&#8217;) is the case in point. Some of<br />
the most tangible applications and consequences of new<br />
ideas are difficult to recognize immediately. In the case<br />
of atomic theory, Brownian motion is a good example<br />
Even when the evidence is out there, it is often difficult<br />
to decode its significance.<br />
  Decoherence and einselection are no exception. They<br />
have been investigated for about two decades. They are<br />
the only explanation of classicality that does not require<br />
modifications of quantum theory&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>DECOHERENCE, EINSELECTION,<br />
AND THE QUANTUM ORIGINS OF THE CLASSICAL</p>
<p>arXiv:quant-ph/0105127 v3</p>
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		<title>By: No numerable &#183; El universo, ¿computadora?, ¿computación?, ¿o qué?.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35819</link>
		<dc:creator>No numerable &#183; El universo, ¿computadora?, ¿computación?, ¿o qué?.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35819</guid>
		<description>[...] el Universo  una computadora o una computación? Interesante discusión entre Seth Lloyd, Leonard Susskind, Christopher Fuchs y Sir Tony Leggett. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] el Universo  una computadora o una computación? Interesante discusión entre Seth Lloyd, Leonard Susskind, Christopher Fuchs y Sir Tony Leggett. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gil Kalai</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/comment-page-1/#comment-35867</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil Kalai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/10/is-the-universe-a-computer/#comment-35867</guid>
		<description>Regarding the question:

&quot;What kind of process would not count as a computer&quot;

A process which cannot be effectively simulated by a computer would not count as a computer. So if you propose  a physics theory based on things that are uncomputable it is probably false.
(The very precise scope of &quot;effectively computed&quot; is still a little disputed.)


On the positive side, processes that can be described by general computational models are potentially more complex and may allow richer modeling power than standard physics models. (If this is useful is left to be seen.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the question:</p>
<p>&#8220;What kind of process would not count as a computer&#8221;</p>
<p>A process which cannot be effectively simulated by a computer would not count as a computer. So if you propose  a physics theory based on things that are uncomputable it is probably false.<br />
(The very precise scope of &#8220;effectively computed&#8221; is still a little disputed.)</p>
<p>On the positive side, processes that can be described by general computational models are potentially more complex and may allow richer modeling power than standard physics models. (If this is useful is left to be seen.)</p>
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