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	<title>Comments on: Intel&#8217;s Chair Decries Science Slashing</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Seed's Daily Zeitgeist: 1/23/2008 - General Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36332</link>
		<dc:creator>Seed's Daily Zeitgeist: 1/23/2008 - General Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36332</guid>
		<description>[...] Flagging economy needs science investments The chairman of Intel argues that we need to seriously fund science. (via CV) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Flagging economy needs science investments The chairman of Intel argues that we need to seriously fund science. (via CV) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Almighty Bob</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36339</link>
		<dc:creator>The Almighty Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36339</guid>
		<description>#13 Count; yes, but to get that system, you have to assume the educational system (and the government) wants everyone to be near-university educated, when patently they don&#039;t. It&#039;s quite difficult to run an economy consisting entirely of graduates unless some of them are willing to take their degree and clean toilets or sell burgers (enter your own unkind comments about arts degrees here:-) ) without getting dissatisfied with their lot.
If you&#039;ve read Huxley&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Brave New World&lt;/em&gt;, you&#039;ll be able to draw a parallel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13 Count; yes, but to get that system, you have to assume the educational system (and the government) wants everyone to be near-university educated, when patently they don&#8217;t. It&#8217;s quite difficult to run an economy consisting entirely of graduates unless some of them are willing to take their degree and clean toilets or sell burgers (enter your own unkind comments about arts degrees here:-) ) without getting dissatisfied with their lot.<br />
If you&#8217;ve read Huxley&#8217;s <em>Brave New World</em>, you&#8217;ll be able to draw a parallel.</p>
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		<title>By: Amara</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36338</link>
		<dc:creator>Amara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 06:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36338</guid>
		<description>Dear Clifford: While I agree with you,  your view is somewhat US-centric. Government jobs in other western countries are likely different than what you describe in their &#039;tolerance&#039; for income gained from other sources. And then there are the extrema: My former Italian government scientific position limited how much money I could earn outside of my position. Since the salaries (mandated by Federal law) were unlivable, you can guess the result: such a policy encourages the   government scientists to not declare income from other sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Clifford: While I agree with you,  your view is somewhat US-centric. Government jobs in other western countries are likely different than what you describe in their &#8216;tolerance&#8217; for income gained from other sources. And then there are the extrema: My former Italian government scientific position limited how much money I could earn outside of my position. Since the salaries (mandated by Federal law) were unlivable, you can guess the result: such a policy encourages the   government scientists to not declare income from other sources.</p>
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		<title>By: lylebot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36337</link>
		<dc:creator>lylebot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36337</guid>
		<description>Being a graduate student in a field where there are some very wealthy companies very interested in our work (Google, Yahoo!, and Microsoft), I can say that while they will happily hire our graduating PhDs and consume our papers, they give us barely any money for any research.  There are small grants now and then, and they sponsor fellowships that fund a graduate student, but the amount our lab gets overall from industry is a pittance compared to what we get from DARPA and the NSF.  Maybe we don&#039;t get everything we want from the government, but if we were relying on private funding we&#039;d get even less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a graduate student in a field where there are some very wealthy companies very interested in our work (Google, Yahoo!, and Microsoft), I can say that while they will happily hire our graduating PhDs and consume our papers, they give us barely any money for any research.  There are small grants now and then, and they sponsor fellowships that fund a graduate student, but the amount our lab gets overall from industry is a pittance compared to what we get from DARPA and the NSF.  Maybe we don&#8217;t get everything we want from the government, but if we were relying on private funding we&#8217;d get even less.</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36336</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36336</guid>
		<description>Actually, since children are hardly taught any science at all in school, it should be possible to produce many scientist at very low costs, simply by teaching science in primary and secondary school. At university the students can then start to work on their Ph.D., instead of what happens today, i.e. students having to learn the very elementary basics first.

At age 18 many parts of the brain that do low level processing can no longer be rewired. Recent studies using functional MRI scans have shown that people who have learned to play chess at a young age (before the age of 5 if I remember correctly) use the brain parts that are normally used to recognize faces in order to recognize patterns on the chess board.


So, we should stop pretending that subjects like math and physics are difficult. These subjects are as difficult as reading and writing are to illiterate people. Also, the fact that these subjects are useless if you don&#039;t plan to pursue a career in science is not a valid excuse to not to teach these subjects. The same can be said about almost all subjects taught in school.

Most children of age eight are capable of enough abstract reasoning to start to learn abstract algebra. So, if we start at that age, most children will be able to master calculus at age ten or eleven. Most of the university level curriculum will have been mastered at age 16 or so (not only for maths, but also for physics, biology, chemistry, literature, history, etc. etc.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, since children are hardly taught any science at all in school, it should be possible to produce many scientist at very low costs, simply by teaching science in primary and secondary school. At university the students can then start to work on their Ph.D., instead of what happens today, i.e. students having to learn the very elementary basics first.</p>
<p>At age 18 many parts of the brain that do low level processing can no longer be rewired. Recent studies using functional MRI scans have shown that people who have learned to play chess at a young age (before the age of 5 if I remember correctly) use the brain parts that are normally used to recognize faces in order to recognize patterns on the chess board.</p>
<p>So, we should stop pretending that subjects like math and physics are difficult. These subjects are as difficult as reading and writing are to illiterate people. Also, the fact that these subjects are useless if you don&#8217;t plan to pursue a career in science is not a valid excuse to not to teach these subjects. The same can be said about almost all subjects taught in school.</p>
<p>Most children of age eight are capable of enough abstract reasoning to start to learn abstract algebra. So, if we start at that age, most children will be able to master calculus at age ten or eleven. Most of the university level curriculum will have been mastered at age 16 or so (not only for maths, but also for physics, biology, chemistry, literature, history, etc. etc.).</p>
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		<title>By: physics girl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36335</link>
		<dc:creator>physics girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36335</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;that’s why nobody does physics, at least not the children of the &quot;affluent&quot;.&lt;/i&gt;

As the daughter of a very successful businessman who certainly fits any definition of affluent you may have, I find some offense in this.  I&#039;m definitely going on to grad school in physics, and while more of my peers from prep school are going out to be businessmen, lawyers, doctors etc I never saw an indication that we were less likely to become physicists than anyone else (because not like there are that many to begin with right?).  In fact, I would argue that a child whose parents are in the top 10% is more likely to go into physics than someone in the lowest 10% because you don&#039;t need to fret about the lack of job market quite as much.

Just my two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>that’s why nobody does physics, at least not the children of the &#8220;affluent&#8221;.</i></p>
<p>As the daughter of a very successful businessman who certainly fits any definition of affluent you may have, I find some offense in this.  I&#8217;m definitely going on to grad school in physics, and while more of my peers from prep school are going out to be businessmen, lawyers, doctors etc I never saw an indication that we were less likely to become physicists than anyone else (because not like there are that many to begin with right?).  In fact, I would argue that a child whose parents are in the top 10% is more likely to go into physics than someone in the lowest 10% because you don&#8217;t need to fret about the lack of job market quite as much.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36331</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36331</guid>
		<description>Hi &quot; a cornellian&quot;

&quot;In 2005, total private charitable donations comprised 2.1% of the 2005 United States gross domestic product (GDP).&quot;[1] I believe the US GDP in 2005 was 12.41 trillion[2], so that makes total private donations as $310 Billion ($310 250 000 000).

Free markets are valuable because they empower the citizen. The more empowered the citizen the more they can increase their earnings and donations. It seems that about %2.2 percent of after tax dollars[1] are donated, for US citizens. So there exists are large amount of giving. It makes sense for scientist to tap into this giving. It should made easier by the media coverage of science education and the small increases of government funding. Not to mention that blogs such as this are successful, I think, in attracting many outside science.


[1] http://usinfo.state.gov/scv/Archive/2006/Jun/22-515647.html
[2] http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108121.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi &#8221; a cornellian&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;In 2005, total private charitable donations comprised 2.1% of the 2005 United States gross domestic product (GDP).&#8221;[1] I believe the US GDP in 2005 was 12.41 trillion[2], so that makes total private donations as $310 Billion ($310 250 000 000).</p>
<p>Free markets are valuable because they empower the citizen. The more empowered the citizen the more they can increase their earnings and donations. It seems that about %2.2 percent of after tax dollars[1] are donated, for US citizens. So there exists are large amount of giving. It makes sense for scientist to tap into this giving. It should made easier by the media coverage of science education and the small increases of government funding. Not to mention that blogs such as this are successful, I think, in attracting many outside science.</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://usinfo.state.gov/scv/Archive/2006/Jun/22-515647.html" rel="nofollow">http://usinfo.state.gov/scv/Archive/2006/Jun/22-515647.html</a><br />
[2] <a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108121.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108121.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: rod</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36334</link>
		<dc:creator>rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36334</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Even more dreadful to think it in the hands of the whims of a few individuals who might or might not be pushing certain agendas but certainly do not suffer from this inconvenient and inefficient bore that is democratic oversight.&lt;/i&gt;

You are right. It&#039;s too much of a gamble to assume that there are genuinely honest philantropists willing to fund education and research on a &quot;no strings attached&quot; basis. Using the examples of Gordon Moore and Jim Simons is a bit of cherry-picking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Even more dreadful to think it in the hands of the whims of a few individuals who might or might not be pushing certain agendas but certainly do not suffer from this inconvenient and inefficient bore that is democratic oversight.</i></p>
<p>You are right. It&#8217;s too much of a gamble to assume that there are genuinely honest philantropists willing to fund education and research on a &#8220;no strings attached&#8221; basis. Using the examples of Gordon Moore and Jim Simons is a bit of cherry-picking.</p>
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		<title>By: fh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36324</link>
		<dc:creator>fh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36324</guid>
		<description>&quot;Education is far too important to be left to the Government.&quot;

Even more dreadful to think it in the hands of the whims of a few individuals who might or might not be pushing certain agendas but certainly do not suffer from this inconvenient and inefficient bore that is democratic oversight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Education is far too important to be left to the Government.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even more dreadful to think it in the hands of the whims of a few individuals who might or might not be pushing certain agendas but certainly do not suffer from this inconvenient and inefficient bore that is democratic oversight.</p>
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		<title>By: James Gallagher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/comment-page-1/#comment-36327</link>
		<dc:creator>James Gallagher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/01/21/intels-chair-decries-science-slashing/#comment-36327</guid>
		<description>cvj,

that&#039;s why nobody does physics, at least not the children of the &quot;affluent&quot;. Nope, business studies, law, economics, accountancy etc etc are the choice for the most privileged.

These studies lead to &quot;easy&quot; professions which generate large incomes basically by being parasitic on society.

True creators, whether they be scientists or artists, will struggle most of their lives to match the income that these &quot;parasites&quot; can command.

Yet without a talented supply of scientists (and artists) we won&#039;t have much of a society. Artists don&#039;t need much training, scientists do. The immediate payoff from training a million more scientists is not acceptable to the modern capitalist model. Sure, if we train a million more scientists, one of them may discover a free source of energy for us, er, in a &quot;few decades or so&quot;. That would have saved the 100 billion dollars spent on the Iraq invasion. But it&#039;s too much of a gamble for the thickies in charge. Let&#039;s make the farmers happy today, it&#039;ll get us votes next year.

A truly poor state of affairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cvj,</p>
<p>that&#8217;s why nobody does physics, at least not the children of the &#8220;affluent&#8221;. Nope, business studies, law, economics, accountancy etc etc are the choice for the most privileged.</p>
<p>These studies lead to &#8220;easy&#8221; professions which generate large incomes basically by being parasitic on society.</p>
<p>True creators, whether they be scientists or artists, will struggle most of their lives to match the income that these &#8220;parasites&#8221; can command.</p>
<p>Yet without a talented supply of scientists (and artists) we won&#8217;t have much of a society. Artists don&#8217;t need much training, scientists do. The immediate payoff from training a million more scientists is not acceptable to the modern capitalist model. Sure, if we train a million more scientists, one of them may discover a free source of energy for us, er, in a &#8220;few decades or so&#8221;. That would have saved the 100 billion dollars spent on the Iraq invasion. But it&#8217;s too much of a gamble for the thickies in charge. Let&#8217;s make the farmers happy today, it&#8217;ll get us votes next year.</p>
<p>A truly poor state of affairs.</p>
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