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	<title>Comments on: Postmodern Climatology</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37511</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37511</guid>
		<description>"But this sort of old-fashioned objective-reality based thinking has been left behind by such advanced intellects as Prof. Dutton, who delight in overturning hierarchies, casting suspicion on metanarratives, and problematizing binary oppositions all over the place."

Really, Sean. Why so snotty? Clearly, you know Dr Dutton even less than I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But this sort of old-fashioned objective-reality based thinking has been left behind by such advanced intellects as Prof. Dutton, who delight in overturning hierarchies, casting suspicion on metanarratives, and problematizing binary oppositions all over the place.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really, Sean. Why so snotty? Clearly, you know Dr Dutton even less than I do.</p>
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		<title>By: The Postmodern Science Skeptic: A Strange New Breed. &#171; Life, the Universe, and Everything.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37510</link>
		<dc:creator>The Postmodern Science Skeptic: A Strange New Breed. &#171; Life, the Universe, and Everything.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37510</guid>
		<description>[...] common thread running through these arguments is their use of postmodern strategies (Sean has mentioned this idea before). To see this, let’s first examine some standard postmodern [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] common thread running through these arguments is their use of postmodern strategies (Sean has mentioned this idea before). To see this, let’s first examine some standard postmodern [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37537</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37537</guid>
		<description>Neil B. Here's the explanation from Jim Hansen of GISS NASA:

Local weather anomalies (dynamical fluctuations, more-or-less independent of forced long-term climate change) are much larger than the global mean temperature change of recent decades.  Weather fluctuations or ‘noise’ have a
noticeable effect even on monthly-mean global-mean temperature, especially in Northern Hemisphere winter.  Weather has little effect on global-mean temperature averaged over several months or more.  The primary cause of variations on time scales from a few months to a few years is ocean dynamics,
especially the Southern Oscillation (El Nino – La Nina cycle), although an occasional large volcano can have a cooling effect that lasts a few years.  The 10-11 year cycle of solar irradiance has a just barely detectable effect on global temperature, no more than about 0.1°C, much less noticeable than El Nino/La
Nina fluctuations. The past year (2007) witnessed a transition from a weak El Nino to a strong La Nina (the latter is perhaps beginning to moderate already, as the ocean waters near Peru are beginning to warm).  January 2007 was the warmest January in the period of instrumental data in the GISS analysis, while October 2007 was # 5 warmest, November 2007 was #8 warmest, December 2007 was #8 warmest, and January 2008 was #40 warmest. [Out of roughly 150 years of records.]  Undoubtedly, the cooling trend through the year was due to the strengthening La Nina, and the unusual coolness in January was aided by a winter weather fluctuation.

Dr. Hansen has also commented on the satellite record:

If you like to see how unusual the global temperature in January was go to http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/ and click on the channel LT data (global lower troposphere, about 900 mb level).  You can see that the temperature was actually above the 20 year mean, and today the temperature is back up to the level of last year, far above the 20-year mean.  Note that this is the web site of John Christy, a contrarian.  He has been very quiet about the fact that the satellite data now show that the position he was taking for years is way off base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil B. Here&#8217;s the explanation from Jim Hansen of GISS NASA:</p>
<p>Local weather anomalies (dynamical fluctuations, more-or-less independent of forced long-term climate change) are much larger than the global mean temperature change of recent decades.  Weather fluctuations or ‘noise’ have a<br />
noticeable effect even on monthly-mean global-mean temperature, especially in Northern Hemisphere winter.  Weather has little effect on global-mean temperature averaged over several months or more.  The primary cause of variations on time scales from a few months to a few years is ocean dynamics,<br />
especially the Southern Oscillation (El Nino – La Nina cycle), although an occasional large volcano can have a cooling effect that lasts a few years.  The 10-11 year cycle of solar irradiance has a just barely detectable effect on global temperature, no more than about 0.1°C, much less noticeable than El Nino/La<br />
Nina fluctuations. The past year (2007) witnessed a transition from a weak El Nino to a strong La Nina (the latter is perhaps beginning to moderate already, as the ocean waters near Peru are beginning to warm).  January 2007 was the warmest January in the period of instrumental data in the GISS analysis, while October 2007 was # 5 warmest, November 2007 was #8 warmest, December 2007 was #8 warmest, and January 2008 was #40 warmest. [Out of roughly 150 years of records.]  Undoubtedly, the cooling trend through the year was due to the strengthening La Nina, and the unusual coolness in January was aided by a winter weather fluctuation.</p>
<p>Dr. Hansen has also commented on the satellite record:</p>
<p>If you like to see how unusual the global temperature in January was go to <a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/</a> and click on the channel LT data (global lower troposphere, about 900 mb level).  You can see that the temperature was actually above the 20 year mean, and today the temperature is back up to the level of last year, far above the 20-year mean.  Note that this is the web site of John Christy, a contrarian.  He has been very quiet about the fact that the satellite data now show that the position he was taking for years is way off base.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37509</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37509</guid>
		<description>With the current meltdown of the credit markets, possibly we could reconsider the paradim of money. After years of privatizing every possible aspect of public works, it's time to consider what should be nationalized. One thing. Period. The banking system. Currency is already a form of public utility, similar to a road system, so we should start treating it as such. Rights and responsibilities go together, just like everyone obeys the laws of the road, rich and poor. Make banks a function of local government, with public oversight and the resulting income, since reasonable interest rates are necessary to make wise investment decisions, public income and reduce other taxes. Yes, lots of people will be turned off by this, but that's an advantage as well. If people didn't obsess over collecting money, since it is viewed as public property in the first place, people would invest more effort into improving their communities and environment, as a way of storing value and building their sense of personal worth. It slows the more cancerous forms of economic growth and that's a long term benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the current meltdown of the credit markets, possibly we could reconsider the paradim of money. After years of privatizing every possible aspect of public works, it&#8217;s time to consider what should be nationalized. One thing. Period. The banking system. Currency is already a form of public utility, similar to a road system, so we should start treating it as such. Rights and responsibilities go together, just like everyone obeys the laws of the road, rich and poor. Make banks a function of local government, with public oversight and the resulting income, since reasonable interest rates are necessary to make wise investment decisions, public income and reduce other taxes. Yes, lots of people will be turned off by this, but that&#8217;s an advantage as well. If people didn&#8217;t obsess over collecting money, since it is viewed as public property in the first place, people would invest more effort into improving their communities and environment, as a way of storing value and building their sense of personal worth. It slows the more cancerous forms of economic growth and that&#8217;s a long term benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37536</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37536</guid>
		<description>Peter Sattler on Feb 29th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

What does this show? Not much. Other than, perhaps, that even good scientists can cook their data a bit when politics enters the picture.
---------------

For enough money it can happen.  Even Jimmy Stewart was tempted for a moment in "It's a Wonderful Life" when Potter offered him a lot of cash.  Money is the basis for the "alt-climate science."

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Sattler on Feb 29th, 2008 at 11:47 pm</p>
<p>What does this show? Not much. Other than, perhaps, that even good scientists can cook their data a bit when politics enters the picture.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>For enough money it can happen.  Even Jimmy Stewart was tempted for a moment in &#8220;It&#8217;s a Wonderful Life&#8221; when Potter offered him a lot of cash.  Money is the basis for the &#8220;alt-climate science.&#8221;</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Sattler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37496</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Sattler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37496</guid>
		<description>This may be the first time if written to CV in a spirit of disagreement – specifically with the characterization of Arts and Letters Daily as a site with a decided rightward bent.  And, yes, I know that this was hardly the main point of the post, but it was still used to bolster Sean’s subsequent claims about Dutton’s climate skepticism, or rampant free-marketism, or whatever.  (Where does one get a sense of his economic views from ALDaily?)

I admit that there is a standard – almost standardized – contrarianism to the links at AL Daily.  They usually take the form: "It’s obvious that a certain thing is true, right?  Well it’s not!" or "Everybody thinks that X.  Well, think again!"  And since this "reactionary" style is often directed at academic humanities targets – who are themselves often left-leaning – a rightward tilt does seem to occur.

(As a rhetorical tick, however, this easy contrarianism can be found at many online sites.  Just visit Slate or Salon for a moment.  At its best, however, Dutton’s page reminds me more the spirit and tone of Lingua Franca.)

But the apparent conservative bias doesn’t much survive a reading of the AL Daily page itself.  Just look at the page’s current right-hand column, from top to bottom.  It contains the offending "What women want" link, as well as others which challenge the concept of a "rape crisis" on college campuses or reference William Saletan’s articles on race and IQ.

But the same column also sends you to articles by Umberto Eco, E.O. Wilson, Phillip Pullman, Steven Pinker, Richard Dawkins, Slavoj Žižek, Alan Wolfe.  These appear alongside links to pieces defending John Kenneth Galbraith, Martin Heidegger, and the radicalism of the Luddites.

What does this show?  Not much.  Other than, perhaps, that even good scientists can cook their data a bit when politics enters the picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be the first time if written to CV in a spirit of disagreement – specifically with the characterization of Arts and Letters Daily as a site with a decided rightward bent.  And, yes, I know that this was hardly the main point of the post, but it was still used to bolster Sean’s subsequent claims about Dutton’s climate skepticism, or rampant free-marketism, or whatever.  (Where does one get a sense of his economic views from ALDaily?)</p>
<p>I admit that there is a standard – almost standardized – contrarianism to the links at AL Daily.  They usually take the form: &#8220;It’s obvious that a certain thing is true, right?  Well it’s not!&#8221; or &#8220;Everybody thinks that X.  Well, think again!&#8221;  And since this &#8220;reactionary&#8221; style is often directed at academic humanities targets – who are themselves often left-leaning – a rightward tilt does seem to occur.</p>
<p>(As a rhetorical tick, however, this easy contrarianism can be found at many online sites.  Just visit Slate or Salon for a moment.  At its best, however, Dutton’s page reminds me more the spirit and tone of Lingua Franca.)</p>
<p>But the apparent conservative bias doesn’t much survive a reading of the AL Daily page itself.  Just look at the page’s current right-hand column, from top to bottom.  It contains the offending &#8220;What women want&#8221; link, as well as others which challenge the concept of a &#8220;rape crisis&#8221; on college campuses or reference William Saletan’s articles on race and IQ.</p>
<p>But the same column also sends you to articles by Umberto Eco, E.O. Wilson, Phillip Pullman, Steven Pinker, Richard Dawkins, Slavoj Žižek, Alan Wolfe.  These appear alongside links to pieces defending John Kenneth Galbraith, Martin Heidegger, and the radicalism of the Luddites.</p>
<p>What does this show?  Not much.  Other than, perhaps, that even good scientists can cook their data a bit when politics enters the picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37507</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37507</guid>
		<description>The simple fact is that species of life do not limit their impact on the environment by limiting their numbers or resource extraction.  They are limited by their interaction with other species of life.  Notice that as human slash and burn out rain forests that microbes previously kept in check are being introduced into ourselves or our livestock.  Intelligent life is able to always remove what ever constraints the world imposes on it.  It might have begun with Homo erectus which took themselves off the predatory menu and began to put more living things on their menu with the aid of fire and chipped flint axes.  Nature is not able to impose constraints on us, for with our brain we are able to figure a way around them, eliminate them and push on committing more of the world to our resource larder.

In effect we have manufactured ourselves into a situation not that different from the bacteria on the agar filled petri dish.  By exploiting the planetary biosphere, mineral resources and energy stores we have approximately turned this planet's open thermodynamics to a closed thermodynamics.  In doing so we may face the ultimate constraint of maximal entropy.  It is not certain where that is.  We face in the near future a peak oil problem, but in the long run we may face a "peak planet" problem, or as Edward O Wilson puts it, "We will run out of environment."  We are already pushing 20,000 species to extinction every year, so we may well be engineering the next great mass extinction.

To be honest I suspect that we are not collectively that much smarter than the bacteria in a petri dish or the exponential explosion of grassshoppers in a locust swarm, at least "modulo scale."   In part this is reflected in our history, which illustrates how on average our political leaders through history have been the most inferior of people, and this extends to our current President.  I suspect that political leaders will dance around this issue, make window dressing solutions, and do the same with equally pressing problems such as rainforest destruction.  I think the safe bet is that our species will collapse the planetary biosphere into a mass extinction and that we will go down with it.

In 50 million years if there is a repeat of the intelligent life experiment we will have left lots of interesting stuff for them to dig up.

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The simple fact is that species of life do not limit their impact on the environment by limiting their numbers or resource extraction.  They are limited by their interaction with other species of life.  Notice that as human slash and burn out rain forests that microbes previously kept in check are being introduced into ourselves or our livestock.  Intelligent life is able to always remove what ever constraints the world imposes on it.  It might have begun with Homo erectus which took themselves off the predatory menu and began to put more living things on their menu with the aid of fire and chipped flint axes.  Nature is not able to impose constraints on us, for with our brain we are able to figure a way around them, eliminate them and push on committing more of the world to our resource larder.</p>
<p>In effect we have manufactured ourselves into a situation not that different from the bacteria on the agar filled petri dish.  By exploiting the planetary biosphere, mineral resources and energy stores we have approximately turned this planet&#8217;s open thermodynamics to a closed thermodynamics.  In doing so we may face the ultimate constraint of maximal entropy.  It is not certain where that is.  We face in the near future a peak oil problem, but in the long run we may face a &#8220;peak planet&#8221; problem, or as Edward O Wilson puts it, &#8220;We will run out of environment.&#8221;  We are already pushing 20,000 species to extinction every year, so we may well be engineering the next great mass extinction.</p>
<p>To be honest I suspect that we are not collectively that much smarter than the bacteria in a petri dish or the exponential explosion of grassshoppers in a locust swarm, at least &#8220;modulo scale.&#8221;   In part this is reflected in our history, which illustrates how on average our political leaders through history have been the most inferior of people, and this extends to our current President.  I suspect that political leaders will dance around this issue, make window dressing solutions, and do the same with equally pressing problems such as rainforest destruction.  I think the safe bet is that our species will collapse the planetary biosphere into a mass extinction and that we will go down with it.</p>
<p>In 50 million years if there is a repeat of the intelligent life experiment we will have left lots of interesting stuff for them to dig up.</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: improbable</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37488</link>
		<dc:creator>improbable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37488</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; If you mean "believe that `calls to action’ and `dissenting voices’ are equally reasonable," then no.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think you're taking this website far too seriously. The very first article linking to it I read explained that, unable to reach agreement over lunch, he and a colleague decided to start a website to take their argument to the public. The 50-50 split accurately represents the number of people in that lunchtime argument, that's all.

I also don't see the contradiction you seem so offended by between his views on this and on relativism. The science of global warming is one thing, but what also clearly exists is a snowballing movement of people driven more by feelings of sin / communist control dreams. (If you doubt this then subject yourself to the Guardian's columnists for a week or two!) Attacking the latter is precisely in line with attacking postmodern blah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> If you mean &#8220;believe that `calls to action’ and `dissenting voices’ are equally reasonable,&#8221; then no.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think you&#8217;re taking this website far too seriously. The very first article linking to it I read explained that, unable to reach agreement over lunch, he and a colleague decided to start a website to take their argument to the public. The 50-50 split accurately represents the number of people in that lunchtime argument, that&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t see the contradiction you seem so offended by between his views on this and on relativism. The science of global warming is one thing, but what also clearly exists is a snowballing movement of people driven more by feelings of sin / communist control dreams. (If you doubt this then subject yourself to the Guardian&#8217;s columnists for a week or two!) Attacking the latter is precisely in line with attacking postmodern blah.</p>
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		<title>By: Kea</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37508</link>
		<dc:creator>Kea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37508</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This is an implacable law of Nature. The only way we can get around this law by exploiting characteristics that differentiate us from bacteria - self awarenesss and problem-solving ability.&lt;/i&gt;

Well put, Albatross! Although I'm not sure that humans are much more self-aware than bacteria. If we want to solve the population problem whilst retaining freedom in our lives, it is clear we must engineer a society where not everybody wants to have children, and developed nations show that this is possible, and not just a dream. Perpetrating the idea that women who don't want children are 'evil' is a serious threat to our survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This is an implacable law of Nature. The only way we can get around this law by exploiting characteristics that differentiate us from bacteria - self awarenesss and problem-solving ability.</i></p>
<p>Well put, Albatross! Although I&#8217;m not sure that humans are much more self-aware than bacteria. If we want to solve the population problem whilst retaining freedom in our lives, it is clear we must engineer a society where not everybody wants to have children, and developed nations show that this is possible, and not just a dream. Perpetrating the idea that women who don&#8217;t want children are &#8216;evil&#8217; is a serious threat to our survival.</p>
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		<title>By: Albatross</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37535</link>
		<dc:creator>Albatross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/02/26/postmodern-climatology/#comment-37535</guid>
		<description>It's a very clear situation for those not blinded by denial.  Put bacteria in a petri dish, and the bacteria will expand to consume all the resources in the dish, polluting it with wastes, until the resources are consumed.  Then the bacteria will die back to a level that the remaining resources can support - including possibly completely dying off.

Humans on the face of the Earth are absolutely no different from bacteria.  Among the many kinds of waste we produce are heat and carbon, which just so happen to interact in a positive feedback loop with solar energy to increase the rate at which heat pollution increases.

Like a bacteria, humans will continue to expand and consume all resources until the resources no longer support the population.  Then the human race will die back to whatever level the remaining resources can support.

This is an implacable law of Nature.  The only way we can get around this law by exploiting characteristics that differentiate us from bacteria - self awarenesss and problem-solving ability.  But in order to bring our problem-solving abilities to bear, we have to be able to acknowledge the problem.

If we allow ourselves to be paralyzed by denial, we will not address the problem, and we will go the way of bacteria in a petri dish.  If we acknowledge the problem we have the ability to clean up our waste, limit our population, and limit our consumption of resources.

One of the best ways to reduce population, by the way, is to improve the standard of living of a given culture.  Developed nations actually experience population declines.

So the best way to save the world is to somehow overcome the denialists, and to work to fight pollution and increase the standard of living worldwide.

It's simple, but you have to start by acknowledging the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a very clear situation for those not blinded by denial.  Put bacteria in a petri dish, and the bacteria will expand to consume all the resources in the dish, polluting it with wastes, until the resources are consumed.  Then the bacteria will die back to a level that the remaining resources can support - including possibly completely dying off.</p>
<p>Humans on the face of the Earth are absolutely no different from bacteria.  Among the many kinds of waste we produce are heat and carbon, which just so happen to interact in a positive feedback loop with solar energy to increase the rate at which heat pollution increases.</p>
<p>Like a bacteria, humans will continue to expand and consume all resources until the resources no longer support the population.  Then the human race will die back to whatever level the remaining resources can support.</p>
<p>This is an implacable law of Nature.  The only way we can get around this law by exploiting characteristics that differentiate us from bacteria - self awarenesss and problem-solving ability.  But in order to bring our problem-solving abilities to bear, we have to be able to acknowledge the problem.</p>
<p>If we allow ourselves to be paralyzed by denial, we will not address the problem, and we will go the way of bacteria in a petri dish.  If we acknowledge the problem we have the ability to clean up our waste, limit our population, and limit our consumption of resources.</p>
<p>One of the best ways to reduce population, by the way, is to improve the standard of living of a given culture.  Developed nations actually experience population declines.</p>
<p>So the best way to save the world is to somehow overcome the denialists, and to work to fight pollution and increase the standard of living worldwide.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s simple, but you have to start by acknowledging the problem.</p>
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