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	<title>Comments on: Pocket Change</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: É tudo uma questão de prioridades &#171;</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40012</link>
		<dc:creator>É tudo uma questão de prioridades &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40012</guid>
		<description>[...] Sean Carrol do Cosmic Variance fez um gráfico comparando os orçamentos de pesquisa do Departamento de Energia dos EUA, da Nasa e da National [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sean Carrol do Cosmic Variance fez um gráfico comparando os orçamentos de pesquisa do Departamento de Energia dos EUA, da Nasa e da National [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robbie Preston</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40010</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbie Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40010</guid>
		<description>Something that many of us forget is that a significant amount of basic research that is eventually used for military-related applications is paid for by DOE, NASA, and the NSF.

So while it doesn&#039;t qualify as &#039;lost&#039; in the Iraq misadventure, some of the money we spend on DOE, NASA, and NSF does seed some of the products we use to conduct our military misadventures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something that many of us forget is that a significant amount of basic research that is eventually used for military-related applications is paid for by DOE, NASA, and the NSF.</p>
<p>So while it doesn&#8217;t qualify as &#8216;lost&#8217; in the Iraq misadventure, some of the money we spend on DOE, NASA, and NSF does seed some of the products we use to conduct our military misadventures.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett Connelly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39987</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett Connelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39987</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Military spending is about 60% of discretionary spending - now that’s something.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is often pointed out that the U.S. spends about as much as the rest of the world combined for war department budgets.

As a young graduate student in the late 1960&#039;s my thesis covered the impending collapse of the USSR due to excessive military spending, pollution and spiraling costs of surveillance.

Remember when the USSR disappeared from the news? It was quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Military spending is about 60% of discretionary spending &#8211; now that’s something.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is often pointed out that the U.S. spends about as much as the rest of the world combined for war department budgets.</p>
<p>As a young graduate student in the late 1960&#8242;s my thesis covered the impending collapse of the USSR due to excessive military spending, pollution and spiraling costs of surveillance.</p>
<p>Remember when the USSR disappeared from the news? It was quick.</p>
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		<title>By: The Editors</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40011</link>
		<dc:creator>The Editors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 18:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40011</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Labels are so confining.&lt;/em&gt;

The word you are searching for is &#039;liberated&#039;.  Use of other words implies that you would be happier if Saddam Hussein was still in power and swan-diving into the $14.9 billion like Scrooge McDuck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Labels are so confining.</em></p>
<p>The word you are searching for is &#8216;liberated&#8217;.  Use of other words implies that you would be happier if Saddam Hussein was still in power and swan-diving into the $14.9 billion like Scrooge McDuck.</p>
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		<title>By: puzzled</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39996</link>
		<dc:creator>puzzled</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39996</guid>
		<description>&quot;In fact, total military spending by the US is only around 1/5th of the total federal budget, Iraq and Afghanistan appropriations included.&quot;

About 60% of the federal budget is mandatory spending - legal obligations of the government such as interest on the debt, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Military spending is about 60% of discretionary spending - now that&#039;s something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In fact, total military spending by the US is only around 1/5th of the total federal budget, Iraq and Afghanistan appropriations included.&#8221;</p>
<p>About 60% of the federal budget is mandatory spending &#8211; legal obligations of the government such as interest on the debt, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Military spending is about 60% of discretionary spending &#8211; now that&#8217;s something.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39986</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39986</guid>
		<description>LL,

No need for new technology, just MIRVs and infrared decoys on rockets. No new research. Just more weapons, uncertainty, and risk of terrorist theft and proliferation.

Not a mature or fruitful policy for the world&#039;s leading superpower.

e.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LL,</p>
<p>No need for new technology, just MIRVs and infrared decoys on rockets. No new research. Just more weapons, uncertainty, and risk of terrorist theft and proliferation.</p>
<p>Not a mature or fruitful policy for the world&#8217;s leading superpower.</p>
<p>e.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39985</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 12:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39985</guid>
		<description>Elliot,
A new arms race means more $$ for nuclear engineers, rocket scientists, metallurgists, geologists, etc.

Just &#039;cause it is good for a flavor of science that you don&#039;t like doesn&#039;t mean that it is bad for science.

After all, the arms race with the Russians is what got us to the moon and our robots all over the solar system.

From the net SciTech funding point of view, building bombs is far preferable to food stamps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliot,<br />
A new arms race means more $$ for nuclear engineers, rocket scientists, metallurgists, geologists, etc.</p>
<p>Just &#8217;cause it is good for a flavor of science that you don&#8217;t like doesn&#8217;t mean that it is bad for science.</p>
<p>After all, the arms race with the Russians is what got us to the moon and our robots all over the solar system.</p>
<p>From the net SciTech funding point of view, building bombs is far preferable to food stamps.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan Thurston</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39988</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan Thurston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39988</guid>
		<description>To be fair to the embezzlers, the $15B is an aggregate amount while the budgets for NASA, etc. are yearly.  To get a fair comparison, you should divide by the length of time involved, approx. 5 years.  So rest assured: less money is being lost to graft in Iraq than goes to your favorite funding agency!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair to the embezzlers, the $15B is an aggregate amount while the budgets for NASA, etc. are yearly.  To get a fair comparison, you should divide by the length of time involved, approx. 5 years.  So rest assured: less money is being lost to graft in Iraq than goes to your favorite funding agency!</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39997</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 01:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39997</guid>
		<description>How about a bar for money &quot;wasted&quot; on NMD. I think the running tab is about 60 billion since 1983 but that could be short. For those who don&#039;t know NMD is Nuclear Missile Defense (formerly known as Star Wars) that has been completely debunked by reputable scientists but &quot;duck and cover cold war paranoia&quot; has prevailed and we keep spending on a system that not only will not work but encourages a new arms race with Russia.

e.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about a bar for money &#8220;wasted&#8221; on NMD. I think the running tab is about 60 billion since 1983 but that could be short. For those who don&#8217;t know NMD is Nuclear Missile Defense (formerly known as Star Wars) that has been completely debunked by reputable scientists but &#8220;duck and cover cold war paranoia&#8221; has prevailed and we keep spending on a system that not only will not work but encourages a new arms race with Russia.</p>
<p>e.</p>
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		<title>By: Costanza</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40004</link>
		<dc:creator>Costanza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40004</guid>
		<description>Re #8
Moshe, I&#039;m glad you included the qualifier. My reaction was along the lines of, &quot;WHAT??!!? Have you even PERUSED the history of the American presidency?&quot;

Unfortunately, it often happens that the President can get away w/ a great deal and do a great deal of damage even when opposed by an (ostensibly) &quot;hostile&quot; Congress. This is a direct consequence of the development of the &quot;professional politician&quot; (something not foreseen by Madison et al in the 18th century).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #8<br />
Moshe, I&#8217;m glad you included the qualifier. My reaction was along the lines of, &#8220;WHAT??!!? Have you even PERUSED the history of the American presidency?&#8221;</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it often happens that the President can get away w/ a great deal and do a great deal of damage even when opposed by an (ostensibly) &#8220;hostile&#8221; Congress. This is a direct consequence of the development of the &#8220;professional politician&#8221; (something not foreseen by Madison et al in the 18th century).</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bacon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40008</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 16:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40008</guid>
		<description>&quot;In fact, total military spending by the US is only around 1/5th of the total federal budget&quot;

Only is a curious choice of words here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In fact, total military spending by the US is only around 1/5th of the total federal budget&#8221;</p>
<p>Only is a curious choice of words here.</p>
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		<title>By: Anchor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40009</link>
		<dc:creator>Anchor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 14:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40009</guid>
		<description>Bluh: What&#039;s misleading? The AS-STATED COMPARISON between KNOWN &quot;misplacements&quot; over the last 6 years and the KNOWN investments to DOE, NASA and the NSF for 2008?

Heck, even you caught it, right?

Want to see how tall that column on the right grows as soon as you tally all the $500b? It&#039;s over 33 TIMES TALLER STILL. Around 70 TIMES taller when &quot;all is said and done&quot;. Consider it spent as of NOW (which is usually how most struggling families have to figure it: a budget that&#039;s already been spent in the future is money that doesn&#039;t exist anymore in the present). It&#039;s the price of inertia. Right NOW it&#039;s over a trillion. One can use the past-tense for it: &quot;It is spent&quot;. It WAS &quot;spent&quot; 6 years ago when this theater was embarked upon and PURCHASED.

Consider what&#039;s actually been purchased. Like, say, how much more secure we are against the nasties (or whatever) per dollar spent. Look at the price as a function vs our present and future security. (Oh, and how much EXTRA will it cost to calm down an over-agitated world to pre-2001 levels, etc.).

What was that about &quot;misplacement&quot;? Embezzled&quot;? &quot;Lost&quot;? Or are we really that friggin&#039; crazy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bluh: What&#8217;s misleading? The AS-STATED COMPARISON between KNOWN &#8220;misplacements&#8221; over the last 6 years and the KNOWN investments to DOE, NASA and the NSF for 2008?</p>
<p>Heck, even you caught it, right?</p>
<p>Want to see how tall that column on the right grows as soon as you tally all the $500b? It&#8217;s over 33 TIMES TALLER STILL. Around 70 TIMES taller when &#8220;all is said and done&#8221;. Consider it spent as of NOW (which is usually how most struggling families have to figure it: a budget that&#8217;s already been spent in the future is money that doesn&#8217;t exist anymore in the present). It&#8217;s the price of inertia. Right NOW it&#8217;s over a trillion. One can use the past-tense for it: &#8220;It is spent&#8221;. It WAS &#8220;spent&#8221; 6 years ago when this theater was embarked upon and PURCHASED.</p>
<p>Consider what&#8217;s actually been purchased. Like, say, how much more secure we are against the nasties (or whatever) per dollar spent. Look at the price as a function vs our present and future security. (Oh, and how much EXTRA will it cost to calm down an over-agitated world to pre-2001 levels, etc.).</p>
<p>What was that about &#8220;misplacement&#8221;? Embezzled&#8221;? &#8220;Lost&#8221;? Or are we really that friggin&#8217; crazy?</p>
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		<title>By: eric gisse</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40007</link>
		<dc:creator>eric gisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 09:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40007</guid>
		<description>The horrors of perspective geometry - not everything is where you expect it to be.

Unfortunately, the Iraq column is still bigger than all the other columns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The horrors of perspective geometry &#8211; not everything is where you expect it to be.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the Iraq column is still bigger than all the other columns.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40006</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 05:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40006</guid>
		<description>My deepest greetings to Sean! Brilliant text, as always. Just to mention, btw, that I really liked your article in the SciAm about The arrow of time, but I would leave a comment about that specifically.

This is very serious, I guess. Human civilisation is spending so much for waging wars instead of funding science! How sad, how tragic. Why is it so? I can&#039;t tell. Are we just one paranoid culture? Likely so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My deepest greetings to Sean! Brilliant text, as always. Just to mention, btw, that I really liked your article in the SciAm about The arrow of time, but I would leave a comment about that specifically.</p>
<p>This is very serious, I guess. Human civilisation is spending so much for waging wars instead of funding science! How sad, how tragic. Why is it so? I can&#8217;t tell. Are we just one paranoid culture? Likely so.</p>
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		<title>By: michael s pierce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40003</link>
		<dc:creator>michael s pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 05:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40003</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;p.s. Why is it that the 4.1 block fails to reach the 4 gradation on the Y axis?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

perspective.  Notice that the graduated back &quot;wall&quot; is not flush with the back side of the columns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>p.s. Why is it that the 4.1 block fails to reach the 4 gradation on the Y axis?</p></blockquote>
<p>perspective.  Notice that the graduated back &#8220;wall&#8221; is not flush with the back side of the columns.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40005</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 05:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40005</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m all for science funding (it pays my bills!), but it&#039;s not necessarily a totally fair comparison.  Lost money in Iraq is a drop in the Iraq war budget - but also the Iraq war is a pretty small part of federal spending.  Even at about $100b/year, Iraq is about 5% of federal spending.  In fact, total military spending by the US is only around 1/5th of the total &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2008&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;federal budget&lt;/a&gt;, Iraq and Afghanistan appropriations included.

In an interesting coincidence, the total amount of pork-barrel earmarks is of about the same size (though somewhat larger) as the waste you mention - $18.3 billion in FY &#039;08.  I&#039;d love to see that redirected toward something useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for science funding (it pays my bills!), but it&#8217;s not necessarily a totally fair comparison.  Lost money in Iraq is a drop in the Iraq war budget &#8211; but also the Iraq war is a pretty small part of federal spending.  Even at about $100b/year, Iraq is about 5% of federal spending.  In fact, total military spending by the US is only around 1/5th of the total <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2008" rel="nofollow">federal budget</a>, Iraq and Afghanistan appropriations included.</p>
<p>In an interesting coincidence, the total amount of pork-barrel earmarks is of about the same size (though somewhat larger) as the waste you mention &#8211; $18.3 billion in FY &#8217;08.  I&#8217;d love to see that redirected toward something useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Moody834</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40002</link>
		<dc:creator>Moody834</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 04:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40002</guid>
		<description>@Lab Lemming&#039;s question, &quot;Why is it that the 4.1 block fails to reach the 4 gradation on the Y axis?&quot;

Inflation...?

Or...

&quot;There&#039;s an old saying at the DoE &#8212; I know it&#039;s at the DoD, probably at the DoE &#8212; that says, fool me once, shame on &#8212; shame on you. Fool me &#8212; you can&#039;t get fooled again.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lab Lemming&#8217;s question, &#8220;Why is it that the 4.1 block fails to reach the 4 gradation on the Y axis?&#8221;</p>
<p>Inflation&#8230;?</p>
<p>Or&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s an old saying at the DoE &mdash; I know it&#8217;s at the DoD, probably at the DoE &mdash; that says, fool me once, shame on &mdash; shame on you. Fool me &mdash; you can&#8217;t get fooled again.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-40001</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 04:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-40001</guid>
		<description>p.s. Why is it that the 4.1 block fails to reach the 4 gradation on the Y axis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s. Why is it that the 4.1 block fails to reach the 4 gradation on the Y axis?</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39995</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 01:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39995</guid>
		<description>As we speak, fugitive Iraqi physicists are preparing to fire up their own, black market-funded, homemade LHC...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As we speak, fugitive Iraqi physicists are preparing to fire up their own, black market-funded, homemade LHC&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/comment-page-1/#comment-39994</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/26/pocket-change/#comment-39994</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-mckibben11-2008may11,0,2392815.story&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cause and effect&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-mckibben11-2008may11,0,2392815.story" rel="nofollow">cause and effect</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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