Comments on: Downsizing the downsizing at Fermilab http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:55:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Arvid Skaugen » LHC lever! Men hva med USA? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40025 Arvid Skaugen » LHC lever! Men hva med USA? Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:35:34 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40025 [...] Fermilab i USA som har stått for de største oppdagelsene innen partikkelfysikk. Men laboratoriet var nylig inne i en finansiell krise grunnet et plutselig bevilgningskutt fra kongressen. Laboratoriet ble heldigvis reddet av en [...] […] Fermilab i USA som har stått for de største oppdagelsene innen partikkelfysikk. Men laboratoriet var nylig inne i en finansiell krise grunnet et plutselig bevilgningskutt fra kongressen. Laboratoriet ble heldigvis reddet av en […]

]]> By: Fermilab Gets $5 Million Donation « Life as a Physicist http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40018 Fermilab Gets $5 Million Donation « Life as a Physicist Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:26:17 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40018 [...] is old news now. But I was thinking about it over the last several days. This has something in common with another [...] […] is old news now. But I was thinking about it over the last several days. This has something in common with another […]

]]> By: eric gisse http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40019 eric gisse Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:11:07 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40019 does the united states even have a plan for the next generation of particle accelerators? everything local seems to be either being cut back [fermilab] or scuttled [SSC], with international commitments to other high energy physics research being abandoned [ITER - not collider physics, but in the area] all together. i honestly fail to understand why the united states would abandon / toss to the winds its prominence in science. does the united states even have a plan for the next generation of particle accelerators? everything local seems to be either being cut back [fermilab] or scuttled [SSC], with international commitments to other high energy physics research being abandoned [ITER - not collider physics, but in the area] all together.

i honestly fail to understand why the united states would abandon / toss to the winds its prominence in science.

]]> By: Arun http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40021 Arun Thu, 29 May 2008 18:50:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40021 The donation to UoC and Fermilab directed towards particle physics is great news in these dark times. Thank you whoever u are. The donation to UoC and Fermilab directed towards particle physics is great news in these dark times. Thank you whoever u are.

]]> By: Dmitry http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40022 Dmitry Thu, 29 May 2008 08:16:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40022 "the people who do this work, some of the most brilliant minds I have had the privilege to know, are totally dedicated to getting the science out; they aren’t in it for the money" That's for sure. Wondering who the donor is. “the people who do this work, some of the most brilliant minds I have had the privilege to know, are totally dedicated to getting the science out; they aren’t in it for the money”

That’s for sure. Wondering who the donor is.

]]> By: Professor R http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40024 Professor R Wed, 28 May 2008 20:56:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40024 To european eyes, it seems bananas to scale back on Fermilab at this particular moment, when CERN is offline and the Tevatron is enjoying record luminosity. Right now, the Tevatron enjoys the top spot - it could be a while before the US achieves this dominance again. It seems to me someone's value-for-money calculation did not include the issue of timing - perhaps to the relief of some European Higgs searchers!... To european eyes, it seems bananas to scale back on Fermilab at this particular moment, when CERN is offline and the Tevatron is enjoying record luminosity.

Right now, the Tevatron enjoys the top spot - it could be a while before the US achieves this dominance again. It seems to me someone’s value-for-money calculation did not include the issue of timing - perhaps to the relief of some European Higgs searchers!…

]]> By: Mike http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40015 Mike Wed, 28 May 2008 15:19:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40015 One response to those who say that such layoffs are no worse than those suffered in the private sector, is to argue that academic salaries are 'adjusted' to reflect the job security of the profession. That is, academics are willing to accept smaller salaries than would be competitive in the private sector in part because they get to do what they want, but also in part because they trust in job security -- in a sense this is equivalent to paying a premium for unemployment insurance. When a lab lays off employees, it violates this trust -- these employees are probably typically less prepared for layoffs than those in the private sector. In turn one expects that when funding increases again, new employees will demand higher salaries, to compensate for the increased risk relative, say, employment at a university. This thinking is why my blood boils when I read articles critical of the generous pension plans that government workers (especially teachers) enjoy. In my reckoning it is no coincidence that government workers (especially teachers) suffer a huge pay discrepancy when compared to similarly skilled professions in the private sector -- job security and generous pensions is how the government has chosen to recruit employees for lower annual pay. As times become more uncertain, those in the private sector will become more envious of this situation. But really, there is no injustice here -- government workers have simply made a wise investment with their human capital. My guess is if their private-sector peers lived off the same income as teachers, and invested the rest, they'd be in an even better position when it came time for retirement. One response to those who say that such layoffs are no worse than those suffered in the private sector, is to argue that academic salaries are ‘adjusted’ to reflect the job security of the profession. That is, academics are willing to accept smaller salaries than would be competitive in the private sector in part because they get to do what they want, but also in part because they trust in job security — in a sense this is equivalent to paying a premium for unemployment insurance. When a lab lays off employees, it violates this trust — these employees are probably typically less prepared for layoffs than those in the private sector. In turn one expects that when funding increases again, new employees will demand higher salaries, to compensate for the increased risk relative, say, employment at a university.

This thinking is why my blood boils when I read articles critical of the generous pension plans that government workers (especially teachers) enjoy. In my reckoning it is no coincidence that government workers (especially teachers) suffer a huge pay discrepancy when compared to similarly skilled professions in the private sector — job security and generous pensions is how the government has chosen to recruit employees for lower annual pay. As times become more uncertain, those in the private sector will become more envious of this situation. But really, there is no injustice here — government workers have simply made a wise investment with their human capital. My guess is if their private-sector peers lived off the same income as teachers, and invested the rest, they’d be in an even better position when it came time for retirement.

]]> By: Xenophage http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40014 Xenophage Wed, 28 May 2008 14:26:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40014 Rather than foster brilliance we allocate for its suppression. Government oversight: Immortality has no impetus to improve. Rather than foster brilliance we allocate for its suppression.

Government oversight: Immortality has no impetus to improve.

]]> By: Ed Gerstner http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40017 Ed Gerstner Wed, 28 May 2008 12:13:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40017 So the US <em>should</em> curtail investment in basic physics research, which has lead directly to the creation of such esoteric and largely useless things as the laser, the silicon transistor and the internet, so that it can concentrate on working out how to improve its economic situation? More future economic dominance for Asia then. So the US should curtail investment in basic physics research, which has lead directly to the creation of such esoteric and largely useless things as the laser, the silicon transistor and the internet, so that it can concentrate on working out how to improve its economic situation? More future economic dominance for Asia then.

]]> By: James Nightshade http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40016 James Nightshade Wed, 28 May 2008 06:33:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/27/downsizing-the-downsizing-at-fermilab/#comment-40016 The cuts are not due to budgetary pressure. Remember, just last week Congress passed a <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amLpoRc81U8Y&refer=home" rel="nofollow"> $289 billion farm bill</a>. And we all know about how much money and lives they give Bush to spend in the War in Iraq. The reason for the cuts is much more simple. Physical scientists have consistently failed to effectively lobby Congress and make a strong case for increased -- or even continued -- funding. If the scientific community imagines that the cuts will be reversed in a few years without any effort on their part, they will be disappointed. The cuts are not due to budgetary pressure. Remember, just last week Congress passed a $289 billion farm bill. And we all know about how much money and lives they give Bush to spend in the War in Iraq.

The reason for the cuts is much more simple. Physical scientists have consistently failed to effectively lobby Congress and make a strong case for increased — or even continued — funding. If the scientific community imagines that the cuts will be reversed in a few years without any effort on their part, they will be disappointed.

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