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	<title>Comments on: The Purpose of Harvard is Not to Educate People</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
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		<title>By: Will the Internet Replace Universities? &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-70190</link>
		<dc:creator>Will the Internet Replace Universities? &#124; Cosmic Variance &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-70190</guid>
		<description>[...] a deep philosophical split, that might signal an underlying instability: from within academia, the purpose of the university is seen as the production of new scholarship; from outside academia, the purpose of universities is seen as the teaching of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a deep philosophical split, that might signal an underlying instability: from within academia, the purpose of the university is seen as the production of new scholarship; from outside academia, the purpose of universities is seen as the teaching of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: from a professor at a research university</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40082</link>
		<dc:creator>from a professor at a research university</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40082</guid>
		<description>Well, I would like to thank the other commentators for bringing up the issue of the endowment. I knew it had grown to be huge, but I wasn&#039;t really questioning this.

Basically, I agree entirely with Sean&#039;s thoughts. I am now a tenure track professor at a second tier research university.

Like any other job, it doesn&#039;t take a genius to figure out what is valued. Here I offer an easy way to figure out this stuff.

Offer letters are not talked about openly, generally, but all that you have to do is look at one to get a sense of what is valued. My offer letter is about 2.5 pages. There is a small part of one paragraph dedicated to teaching. The great majority of the rest talks about &quot;external funding&quot; as a requirement (read: research grants), publications, and my startup money package.

I&#039;m new at my university (less than 6 months). During this time, the total time that I have spent talking/meeting/emailing about teaching with any other professor/dean/etc is about 1 hour (and, yes, I am expected to teach in the fall - it just isn&#039;t important enough to actually discuss). In contrast, I have had many, many conversations and meetings about funding - conservatively, I&#039;d say 100 hours on this. That *does not  include* the two grants that I have already submitted and the one to three (depending on my choices) that I am about to start work on. (And I&#039;m not even counting &quot;minor&quot; things like training grant applications for people in my lab; did those, too - and got the salary money for my people!).

Need I say more? Again, it doesn&#039;t take a genius to figure out what is valued...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I would like to thank the other commentators for bringing up the issue of the endowment. I knew it had grown to be huge, but I wasn&#8217;t really questioning this.</p>
<p>Basically, I agree entirely with Sean&#8217;s thoughts. I am now a tenure track professor at a second tier research university.</p>
<p>Like any other job, it doesn&#8217;t take a genius to figure out what is valued. Here I offer an easy way to figure out this stuff.</p>
<p>Offer letters are not talked about openly, generally, but all that you have to do is look at one to get a sense of what is valued. My offer letter is about 2.5 pages. There is a small part of one paragraph dedicated to teaching. The great majority of the rest talks about &#8220;external funding&#8221; as a requirement (read: research grants), publications, and my startup money package.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m new at my university (less than 6 months). During this time, the total time that I have spent talking/meeting/emailing about teaching with any other professor/dean/etc is about 1 hour (and, yes, I am expected to teach in the fall &#8211; it just isn&#8217;t important enough to actually discuss). In contrast, I have had many, many conversations and meetings about funding &#8211; conservatively, I&#8217;d say 100 hours on this. That *does not  include* the two grants that I have already submitted and the one to three (depending on my choices) that I am about to start work on. (And I&#8217;m not even counting &#8220;minor&#8221; things like training grant applications for people in my lab; did those, too &#8211; and got the salary money for my people!).</p>
<p>Need I say more? Again, it doesn&#8217;t take a genius to figure out what is valued&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Schambach</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40030</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Schambach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40030</guid>
		<description>For 30 years, I taught in a well know liberal arts college that really did value teaching, and promotions and salaries were strongly related to teaching abilities.  One year I taught a night section of a course at a local major research university, and tried to get in contact with the Univ Prof who was currently teaching most of the other sections.  He didn&#039;t want to talk, but agreed to send me a copy of his &quot;Class Rules&quot; that he distributes to all of his students.  Working in an environment where students were always welcome in my office, I was amazed, and probably a bit naive, when I saw his statement, &quot;Each year there are a few students who feel it is necessary to talk with me.  For those students, I have reserved 4:15 to 4:30 on Thursday afternoons.  Your need to meet with me should be of such importance that you will be willing to cancel any other meetings/activities.&quot;  From then on, whenever one of my liberal arts college students complained to me that, &quot;Where were you? You weren&#039;t in your office&quot;, I showed my student the Univ Prof rules about talking with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For 30 years, I taught in a well know liberal arts college that really did value teaching, and promotions and salaries were strongly related to teaching abilities.  One year I taught a night section of a course at a local major research university, and tried to get in contact with the Univ Prof who was currently teaching most of the other sections.  He didn&#8217;t want to talk, but agreed to send me a copy of his &#8220;Class Rules&#8221; that he distributes to all of his students.  Working in an environment where students were always welcome in my office, I was amazed, and probably a bit naive, when I saw his statement, &#8220;Each year there are a few students who feel it is necessary to talk with me.  For those students, I have reserved 4:15 to 4:30 on Thursday afternoons.  Your need to meet with me should be of such importance that you will be willing to cancel any other meetings/activities.&#8221;  From then on, whenever one of my liberal arts college students complained to me that, &#8220;Where were you? You weren&#8217;t in your office&#8221;, I showed my student the Univ Prof rules about talking with him.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberto Gonzalez-Plaza</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40081</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto Gonzalez-Plaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40081</guid>
		<description>It is sad that the size of the endowement brings so much attention, rather than attention focusing on what the endowement is supposd to be doing, which is, once again, according to the 1650 charter: &quot;educate english and indian youth&#039;. The Harvard Indian College died of market forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is sad that the size of the endowement brings so much attention, rather than attention focusing on what the endowement is supposd to be doing, which is, once again, according to the 1650 charter: &#8220;educate english and indian youth&#8217;. The Harvard Indian College died of market forces.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex F</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40059</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 03:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40059</guid>
		<description>&quot;Still don’t think I quite follow the logic here. The reason why investment funds are taxed is because their profits are ultimately realized for the direct financial benefit of individuals.&quot;

Well... not exactly.  The reason we have taxes isn&#039;t to punish individuals by stealing their hard-earned cash -- it&#039;s to raise money for the government.  Hypothetically at least, we try to do this in &quot;fair&quot; ways which inflict the least amount of damage to the economy.  The fact that Harvard&#039;s profits don&#039;t go towards individual incomes is a reason *to* tax it, not to leave it untaxed, because reducing individual incomes is a bad thing that we want to avoid if we can.  On the other hand, Harvard&#039;s profits (supposedly) go to other good things that we don&#039;t want to hurt.  The government has essentially decided that we&#039;re willing to leave nonprofit institutions untaxed (and therefore to tax you and me and everybody else more) because they engage in goals that the government considers worth subsidizing.  But there&#039;s nothing unreasonable about saying, Hey -- we&#039;re giving up a lot of revenue, and we&#039;re not getting a whole lot back for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Still don’t think I quite follow the logic here. The reason why investment funds are taxed is because their profits are ultimately realized for the direct financial benefit of individuals.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well&#8230; not exactly.  The reason we have taxes isn&#8217;t to punish individuals by stealing their hard-earned cash &#8212; it&#8217;s to raise money for the government.  Hypothetically at least, we try to do this in &#8220;fair&#8221; ways which inflict the least amount of damage to the economy.  The fact that Harvard&#8217;s profits don&#8217;t go towards individual incomes is a reason *to* tax it, not to leave it untaxed, because reducing individual incomes is a bad thing that we want to avoid if we can.  On the other hand, Harvard&#8217;s profits (supposedly) go to other good things that we don&#8217;t want to hurt.  The government has essentially decided that we&#8217;re willing to leave nonprofit institutions untaxed (and therefore to tax you and me and everybody else more) because they engage in goals that the government considers worth subsidizing.  But there&#8217;s nothing unreasonable about saying, Hey &#8212; we&#8217;re giving up a lot of revenue, and we&#8217;re not getting a whole lot back for it.</p>
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		<title>By: UbiDubi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40039</link>
		<dc:creator>UbiDubi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40039</guid>
		<description>You people think too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You people think too much.</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40058</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40058</guid>
		<description>I think the best solution was to stop giving tax write-offs to donors to universities with endowments above a certain size.  (Sorry, can&#039;t find the link to the person who suggested it).  The social utility of a donation decreases after a certain point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the best solution was to stop giving tax write-offs to donors to universities with endowments above a certain size.  (Sorry, can&#8217;t find the link to the person who suggested it).  The social utility of a donation decreases after a certain point.</p>
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		<title>By: Or What&#8217;s A Harvard For? &#171; In Other Words</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40057</link>
		<dc:creator>Or What&#8217;s A Harvard For? &#171; In Other Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 02:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40057</guid>
		<description>[...] What&#8217;s A Harvard&#160;For?  Sean Carroll sets the record straight. Harvard University’s endowment is $35 billion, and some people aren’t happy about it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What&#8217;s A Harvard&nbsp;For?  Sean Carroll sets the record straight. Harvard University’s endowment is $35 billion, and some people aren’t happy about it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kordan the Merciless</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40038</link>
		<dc:creator>Kordan the Merciless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40038</guid>
		<description>Thoreau, an 1835 graduate of Harvard, said his real
education didn&#039;t start until after he left college.

He also said of his diploma:  &quot;Every sheep should keep
its skin.&quot;

Major universities are mainly there to crank out
corporate drones - and this applies to science as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thoreau, an 1835 graduate of Harvard, said his real<br />
education didn&#8217;t start until after he left college.</p>
<p>He also said of his diploma:  &#8220;Every sheep should keep<br />
its skin.&#8221;</p>
<p>Major universities are mainly there to crank out<br />
corporate drones &#8211; and this applies to science as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/comment-page-1/#comment-40080</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/the-purpose-of-harvard-is-not-to-educate-people/#comment-40080</guid>
		<description>Mike M (#48):  It seems to me there are many issues.

(1)  Tax exemption is granted to charitable gifts, and charitable organizations, because they are seen to provide a public good.  Growing capital is NOT one of those public goods, or else we&#039;d grant tax exemption to that in the private industry.  Thus, when charitable organizations divert resources to growing capital, they are diverting resources away from the public services that motivate their tax exemption.  One can imagine an extreme situation, where society becomes socially/culturally impoverished because all of its charitable organizations are diverting their resources to growing endowments, and not to their primary missions.

(2)  One can argue that Harvard is better at what it does because it competes with other elite universities.  Historically, we have done just fine with the set of elite universities we have.  But our society is growing, and growing more advanced, and it might be argued the circle of &#039;elite&#039; academic institutions should grow to maintain healthy competition across the depth of academic endeavors in our advancing society.  This requires inhibiting &#039;advantaged&#039; institutions from too powerfully leveraging their advantage.

(3)  As much as Harvard strives to provide equal opportunity to its resources, as an elite university it still serves to perpetuate the advantage of a more privileged class, because it provides a means for those starting with an advantage to increase that advantage merely by institutional affiliation.  I don&#039;t think one can really blame Harvard, who simply seeks the most qualified students (and perhaps even sacrifices this aim in order to open its doors to at least some disadvantaged students) -- but as a society we can try to muffle this trend by increasing the circle of elite universities.  This requires inhibiting &#039;advantaged&#039; institutions from too powerfully leveraging their advantage.

All this said, I do think we (as a society) should proceed cautiously with such forms of &#039;social engineering.&#039;  As much as is wrong with our society, we&#039;ve certainly got a lot of good things going for us, when you compare to the scope of human history.  The Harvards of our society are among its most valuable resources, and it is important not to put those resources in jeopardy with speculative policies to improve the situation (or prevent a possible problem).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike M (#48):  It seems to me there are many issues.</p>
<p>(1)  Tax exemption is granted to charitable gifts, and charitable organizations, because they are seen to provide a public good.  Growing capital is NOT one of those public goods, or else we&#8217;d grant tax exemption to that in the private industry.  Thus, when charitable organizations divert resources to growing capital, they are diverting resources away from the public services that motivate their tax exemption.  One can imagine an extreme situation, where society becomes socially/culturally impoverished because all of its charitable organizations are diverting their resources to growing endowments, and not to their primary missions.</p>
<p>(2)  One can argue that Harvard is better at what it does because it competes with other elite universities.  Historically, we have done just fine with the set of elite universities we have.  But our society is growing, and growing more advanced, and it might be argued the circle of &#8216;elite&#8217; academic institutions should grow to maintain healthy competition across the depth of academic endeavors in our advancing society.  This requires inhibiting &#8216;advantaged&#8217; institutions from too powerfully leveraging their advantage.</p>
<p>(3)  As much as Harvard strives to provide equal opportunity to its resources, as an elite university it still serves to perpetuate the advantage of a more privileged class, because it provides a means for those starting with an advantage to increase that advantage merely by institutional affiliation.  I don&#8217;t think one can really blame Harvard, who simply seeks the most qualified students (and perhaps even sacrifices this aim in order to open its doors to at least some disadvantaged students) &#8212; but as a society we can try to muffle this trend by increasing the circle of elite universities.  This requires inhibiting &#8216;advantaged&#8217; institutions from too powerfully leveraging their advantage.</p>
<p>All this said, I do think we (as a society) should proceed cautiously with such forms of &#8217;social engineering.&#8217;  As much as is wrong with our society, we&#8217;ve certainly got a lot of good things going for us, when you compare to the scope of human history.  The Harvards of our society are among its most valuable resources, and it is important not to put those resources in jeopardy with speculative policies to improve the situation (or prevent a possible problem).</p>
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