Comments on: Guest Post: Tom Levenson on the Iraq War Suicides and the Material Basis of Consciousness http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/ Random samplings from a universe of ideas. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:31:31 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Dima http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40216 Dima Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:45:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40216 Neil, do you know where I can find that novel you mentioned? I googled it but came up with nothing Neil, do you know where I can find that novel you mentioned? I googled it but came up with nothing

]]> By: Gene Johnson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40206 Gene Johnson Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:27:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40206 If anyone thinks they can come up with a Theory of Everything without directly involving consciousness in the equation, they need to catch up on some Kurt Godel. Science and religion are two sides of the same coin which is about to collapse into a new coin. If anyone thinks they can come up with a Theory of Everything without directly involving consciousness in the equation, they need to catch up on some Kurt Godel. Science and religion are two sides of the same coin which is about to collapse into a new coin.

]]> By: From Megaflop to Petaflop … An alternate history of the last two decades. « The Inverse Square Blog http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40205 From Megaflop to Petaflop … An alternate history of the last two decades. « The Inverse Square Blog Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:28:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40205 [...] you want. But in the context of this post (here, or here), let me steal what TM’s Danny Hillis used as the company motto: “We’re building [...] [...] you want. But in the context of this post (here, or here), let me steal what TM’s Danny Hillis used as the company motto: “We’re building [...]

]]> By: Rev Jim http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40225 Rev Jim Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:44:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40225 While materialism is a step up from superstition and magical thinking, it is not necessarily the final step. Nothing that I've seen in scientific materialism addresses the issue of what causes evolution (of the universe, for that matter) - somehow randomness does not seem like a final answer. The physiological changes in the brain associated with PTSD and other diseases and disorders have been shown to be developed through the thoughts of the individuals (and sometimes of groups) involved. If thought is an epiphenomenon of the brain, how then can that thought change the brain? I am excited to see what scientific developments arise in the future - the expansion of knowledge is always welcome, and usually not predictable. How often have we heard the "final" answer, or that there is nothing else to learn, only to have an astounding, revolutionary discovery follow in short stead. I think that it behooves materialists to be open to something greater emerging as we develop the capacities to explore the greater universe and the inner human being. Perhaps as a result of scientific exploration we will trade the old God of myth for a more mature understanding of the mystical nature of matter. Not a created and directed universe, but an "informed universe." (see Ervin Lazlo). Rev. Jim While materialism is a step up from superstition and magical thinking, it is not necessarily the final step. Nothing that I’ve seen in scientific materialism addresses the issue of what causes evolution (of the universe, for that matter) – somehow randomness does not seem like a final answer.

The physiological changes in the brain associated with PTSD and other diseases and disorders have been shown to be developed through the thoughts of the individuals (and sometimes of groups) involved. If thought is an epiphenomenon of the brain, how then can that thought change the brain?

I am excited to see what scientific developments arise in the future – the expansion of knowledge is always welcome, and usually not predictable. How often have we heard the “final” answer, or that there is nothing else to learn, only to have an astounding, revolutionary discovery follow in short stead.

I think that it behooves materialists to be open to something greater emerging as we develop the capacities to explore the greater universe and the inner human being.

Perhaps as a result of scientific exploration we will trade the old God of myth for a more mature understanding of the mystical nature of matter. Not a created and directed universe, but an “informed universe.” (see Ervin Lazlo).

Rev. Jim

]]> By: Seed's Daily Zeitgeist: 6/6/2008 - General Science http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40224 Seed's Daily Zeitgeist: 6/6/2008 - General Science Sat, 07 Jun 2008 22:50:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40224 [...] The Iraq War Suicides and the Material Basis of Consciousness Tom Levenson discusses the changing landscape of mind-body dualism. [...] [...] The Iraq War Suicides and the Material Basis of Consciousness Tom Levenson discusses the changing landscape of mind-body dualism. [...]

]]> By: James Nightshade http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40223 James Nightshade Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:41:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40223 Perhaps Professor Levenson could use his insights into the Material Basis of Consciousness to reduce the <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HJE/is_2_2/ai_79961273" rel="nofollow">suicide rate at MIT.</a> Perhaps Professor Levenson could use his insights into the Material Basis of Consciousness to reduce the suicide rate at MIT.

]]> By: rww http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40203 rww Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:36:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40203 No. 24 says "there's no way telling experimentally if a galaxy is conscious." In the absence of gods to plant the seed, if consciousness resides anywhere in the universe, then the universe can fairly be said to have evolved to a state of consciousness. All else is vanity. No. 24 says “there’s no way telling experimentally if a galaxy is conscious.”

In the absence of gods to plant the seed, if consciousness resides anywhere in the universe, then the universe can fairly be said to have evolved to a state of consciousness. All else is vanity.

]]> By: jeffw http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40202 jeffw Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:24:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40202 <blockquote>Why wouldn’t the source of "you" arise similarly? Is there nothing about which brain is operating in whatever fashion giving rise to certain cognition itself the index?</blockquote> If you can identify what that source is, be my guest. Note that there can only be one source - not only in this universe, but in the entire multiverse (assuming a multiverse exists). The whole question of conscious identity is quite elusive. When you say that consciousness emerges from a physical brain, you have to be careful that you don't conflate "conscious identity" with "physical identity". Theoretically, you could replace all the neurons in your brain, one by one, with equivalent synthetic components, and you'd still be the same conscious "you". Physically, you'd be quite different, buy consciously you'd be the same person. And neurons are dying all the time, but you're conscious identity does not change or shift from one person to another (although, I suppose there would be know way of knowing that, due to memory).

Why wouldn’t the source of “you” arise similarly? Is there nothing about which brain is operating in whatever fashion giving rise to certain cognition itself the index?

If you can identify what that source is, be my guest. Note that there can only be one source – not only in this universe, but in the entire multiverse (assuming a multiverse exists).

The whole question of conscious identity is quite elusive. When you say that consciousness emerges from a physical brain, you have to be careful that you don’t conflate “conscious identity” with “physical identity”. Theoretically, you could replace all the neurons in your brain, one by one, with equivalent synthetic components, and you’d still be the same conscious “you”. Physically, you’d be quite different, buy consciously you’d be the same person. And neurons are dying all the time, but you’re conscious identity does not change or shift from one person to another (although, I suppose there would be know way of knowing that, due to memory).

]]> By: What’s in your head? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40222 What’s in your head? Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:18:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40222 [...] Levenson has a guest post at Cosmic Variance that I think illustrates a fundamental flaw in some of the modern ideas about [...] [...] Levenson has a guest post at Cosmic Variance that I think illustrates a fundamental flaw in some of the modern ideas about [...]

]]> By: Guest Post: Tom Levenson on Einstein, Religion, and Jewishness | Cosmic Variance http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/comment-page-1/#comment-40204 Guest Post: Tom Levenson on Einstein, Religion, and Jewishness | Cosmic Variance Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:32:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/04/guest-post-tom-levenson-on-the-iraq-war-suicides-and-the-material-basis-of-consciousness/#comment-40204 [...] « Guest Post: Tom Levenson on the Iraq War Suicides and the Material Basis of Consciousness      digg_url = [...] [...] « Guest Post: Tom Levenson on the Iraq War Suicides and the Material Basis of Consciousness      digg_url = [...]

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