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	<title>Comments on: Evolving Potentials</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/</link>
	<description>Random samplings from a universe of ideas.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40452</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40452</guid>
		<description>Hi Anisotropie - thanks! It is indeed challenging with f(R) models, although one might hope that with future gains in the uncertainties and error bars one might have a chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anisotropie - thanks! It is indeed challenging with f(R) models, although one might hope that with future gains in the uncertainties and error bars one might have a chance.</p>
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		<title>By: Anisotropie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40433</link>
		<dc:creator>Anisotropie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40433</guid>
		<description>Hello Mark,
this is my first comment on Cosmic Variance; I do my compliments for this beautiful blog!

I wish to ask you if the ISW test is useful to make prediction on f(R) models, because the cross-correlation function with f(R) models is too much similar from the standard one, given the galaxy distribution uncertainties and the error bars in the correlation between CMB and LSS.

Thank you very much</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Mark,<br />
this is my first comment on Cosmic Variance; I do my compliments for this beautiful blog!</p>
<p>I wish to ask you if the ISW test is useful to make prediction on f(R) models, because the cross-correlation function with f(R) models is too much similar from the standard one, given the galaxy distribution uncertainties and the error bars in the correlation between CMB and LSS.</p>
<p>Thank you very much</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40432</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40432</guid>
		<description>Thanks Theda - useful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Theda - useful!</p>
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		<title>By: Theda</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40434</link>
		<dc:creator>Theda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40434</guid>
		<description>Hi, Mark and everyone.  Have y'all heard of Tinyurl.com? You can go to tinyurl.com, enter a long url such as the book url above, click the button, and instantly receive http://tinyurl.com/43c83e, a tiny url which navigates to the exact same page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Mark and everyone.  Have y&#8217;all heard of Tinyurl.com? You can go to tinyurl.com, enter a long url such as the book url above, click the button, and instantly receive <a href="http://tinyurl.com/43c83e," rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/43c83e,</a> a tiny url which navigates to the exact same page.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40451</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40451</guid>
		<description>Lawrence,

 Thank you for your efforts, but I think I better give the subject a rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawrence,</p>
<p> Thank you for your efforts, but I think I better give the subject a rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40443</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 02:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40443</guid>
		<description>John. The physics of the expanding background spacetime in geeneral relativity, and its effect on propagating light is a completely understood and solved problem that is explained in detail at even the undergraduate level these days. There are no "plastered over stress fractures" at all. We have explained this many, many times, but for future information on this topic I would try, for example, Andrew Liddle's undergraduate text:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Modern-Cosmology-Andrew-Liddle/dp/0470848359/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1213670159&#038;sr=8-1

I do not intend to be rude, but we don't want to turn every thread about cosmology into the same set of well-understood questions about the foundations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John. The physics of the expanding background spacetime in geeneral relativity, and its effect on propagating light is a completely understood and solved problem that is explained in detail at even the undergraduate level these days. There are no &#8220;plastered over stress fractures&#8221; at all. We have explained this many, many times, but for future information on this topic I would try, for example, Andrew Liddle&#8217;s undergraduate text:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Modern-Cosmology-Andrew-Liddle/dp/0470848359/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1213670159&#038;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Modern-Cosmology-Andrew-Liddle/dp/0470848359/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1213670159&#038;sr=8-1</a></p>
<p>I do not intend to be rude, but we don&#8217;t want to turn every thread about cosmology into the same set of well-understood questions about the foundations.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40441</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 02:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40441</guid>
		<description>Lawrence,

&lt;blockquote&gt;In an expanding universe these boxes are growing in size. A resonance cavity with photons that expands in size will expand the wavelength of the photons inside.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

 I can certainly accept space that space can expand. As well as contract. Believe it or not, I tend to be a very credulous person. It's easier that way. My problem has been that if space is expanding intergalactically and contracting intragalactically (or rather intragravitationally) and these two effects are in general equilibrium, how is it that the entire universe expands? I don't want to go too far out on the limb of what seems to be my various hobby horses, since trying to explain how and why I differentiate between flat space and spacetime to Mark was deleted, but I do feel the basic foundation has some plastered over stress fractures running through it that those building on this foundation don't seem able to explain away.
Inflation comes to mind.

&lt;blockquote&gt;But these potentials introduce some impedence varations along the transmission line. So the observer measures an incoming wave and attempts to deduce its "history" by its structure.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

 As with much of history, most of it doesn't leave much evidence. Since photons of the same wave would seem as entangled as any such particles could be, is there any effect of those falling into gravity wells on those which continue their travels, such as incremental effects on their spectrum?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawrence,</p>
<blockquote><p>In an expanding universe these boxes are growing in size. A resonance cavity with photons that expands in size will expand the wavelength of the photons inside.</p></blockquote>
<p> I can certainly accept space that space can expand. As well as contract. Believe it or not, I tend to be a very credulous person. It&#8217;s easier that way. My problem has been that if space is expanding intergalactically and contracting intragalactically (or rather intragravitationally) and these two effects are in general equilibrium, how is it that the entire universe expands? I don&#8217;t want to go too far out on the limb of what seems to be my various hobby horses, since trying to explain how and why I differentiate between flat space and spacetime to Mark was deleted, but I do feel the basic foundation has some plastered over stress fractures running through it that those building on this foundation don&#8217;t seem able to explain away.<br />
Inflation comes to mind.</p>
<blockquote><p>But these potentials introduce some impedence varations along the transmission line. So the observer measures an incoming wave and attempts to deduce its &#8220;history&#8221; by its structure.</p></blockquote>
<p> As with much of history, most of it doesn&#8217;t leave much evidence. Since photons of the same wave would seem as entangled as any such particles could be, is there any effect of those falling into gravity wells on those which continue their travels, such as incremental effects on their spectrum?</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40442</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40442</guid>
		<description>John Merryman on Jun 16th, 2008 at 5:36 am
Mark,

Pardon if I was not reading what you are saying correctly, but my understanding of the need for dark energy is based on explaining why standard candles appear to have a higher proportional redshift if they are closer, than those further away.

-----------------------

Think of the universe as made up of cells in space.  Since on average a photon which enters a cell is equal in number and energy to those which leave we can think of these cells as perfectly reflecting boxes.  In an expanding universe these boxes are growing in size.  A resonance cavity with photons that expands in size will expand the wavelength of the photons inside.  This has stretched out the wavelength of light which resulted after the deionization event to a microwave wavelength, which compose the CMB.

The physics here is to deduce how these boxes expanded in the past, particular prior to the deionization period.  So reduce the problem of reflecting boxes or resonance cavities to one dimension.  This is then a transmission line, or a string of them.  If the couplers between each of these lines has "infinite" impedence then the model still holds.  We can then consider the transmission line as adjusting the wavelength of a signal as it grows in length and remove the intermediate "couplers."   But these potentials introduce some impedence varations along the transmission line.  So the observer measures an incoming wave and attempts to deduce its "history" by its structure.  We know all about the "dark energy" accelerated expansion of the universe, but there might in addition be information in addition --- analogous to these impedence variations or mismatches on the line due to these quirky potentials that vary in time and space.

Will this lead to modified gravity?  Who knows!?

Lawrence B. Crowell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Merryman on Jun 16th, 2008 at 5:36 am<br />
Mark,</p>
<p>Pardon if I was not reading what you are saying correctly, but my understanding of the need for dark energy is based on explaining why standard candles appear to have a higher proportional redshift if they are closer, than those further away.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Think of the universe as made up of cells in space.  Since on average a photon which enters a cell is equal in number and energy to those which leave we can think of these cells as perfectly reflecting boxes.  In an expanding universe these boxes are growing in size.  A resonance cavity with photons that expands in size will expand the wavelength of the photons inside.  This has stretched out the wavelength of light which resulted after the deionization event to a microwave wavelength, which compose the CMB.</p>
<p>The physics here is to deduce how these boxes expanded in the past, particular prior to the deionization period.  So reduce the problem of reflecting boxes or resonance cavities to one dimension.  This is then a transmission line, or a string of them.  If the couplers between each of these lines has &#8220;infinite&#8221; impedence then the model still holds.  We can then consider the transmission line as adjusting the wavelength of a signal as it grows in length and remove the intermediate &#8220;couplers.&#8221;   But these potentials introduce some impedence varations along the transmission line.  So the observer measures an incoming wave and attempts to deduce its &#8220;history&#8221; by its structure.  We know all about the &#8220;dark energy&#8221; accelerated expansion of the universe, but there might in addition be information in addition &#8212; analogous to these impedence variations or mismatches on the line due to these quirky potentials that vary in time and space.</p>
<p>Will this lead to modified gravity?  Who knows!?</p>
<p>Lawrence B. Crowell</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40455</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40455</guid>
		<description>Congrats Alessandra! Have fun in Boston!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congrats Alessandra! Have fun in Boston!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40454</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/06/15/evolving-potentials/#comment-40454</guid>
		<description>P.S. John. The need for dark energy comes not only from supernovae data, but from a set of other observations - the CMB, large scale structure, lensing, ..., all of which indicate cosmic acceleration. The ISW effect isn't one of our major pieces of evidence for it - it is a subtle effect we can try to use to get at the details of it.

I didn't understand the question at the end at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. John. The need for dark energy comes not only from supernovae data, but from a set of other observations - the CMB, large scale structure, lensing, &#8230;, all of which indicate cosmic acceleration. The ISW effect isn&#8217;t one of our major pieces of evidence for it - it is a subtle effect we can try to use to get at the details of it.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t understand the question at the end at all.</p>
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